New Power: Adjustment Reserve

[schir1964]

Adjustment Reserve Special/Persistent [Caution Sign]

Definition

This power allows the character to create a pool of Active Points that can be used to increase a power of a given SFX. The power and SFX must be decided when the pool is purchased. The pool can be expanded to allow more powers or SFX that can be increased by applying Advantages (see below).

 

Pool

The points in the pool are used up each time a power is used to increase it's ability. How many points a power draws from the pool is based on the Active Points that power is currently using. Instant Powers draw from the pool each time they are used. Constant powers draw from pool when it is used and at the beginning of each phase that the power remains in use. Once the pool is empty, no powers can be increased until it has recovered some active points.

 

Pool Recovery

Internal Recovery: Recovery Points can be purchased for the pool. These points are added back into the pool at the end of each turn. This recovery is automatic.

External Recovery: Points can be fed into the pool by another power. The frequency and conditions that the points are fed is determined by the power being used. Usually this method is not automatic.

 

Costs No Endurance

 

Reserve Cost: 1 Pt / 1 Active Point (One Power At A Time)

REC Cost: 2 Pts / 1 REC

 

Advantages

2 Powers Of Given SFX Simultaneously: +1/2

4 Powers Of Given SFX Simultaneously: +1

8 Powers Of Given SFX Simultaneously: +1 1/2

All Powers of Given SFX Simultaneously: +2

x2 Number Of SFX: +1/2

 

- Christopher Mullins

[Sean Waters]

Re: New Power: Adjustment Reserve

 

Not trying to stifle the creative urge, but...can't you pretty much do that with a VPP anyway?

[SleepyDrug]

Re: New Power: Adjustment Reserve

 

Or as another question, why isn't this built using Aid?

[Southern Cross]

Re: New Power: Adjustment Reserve

 

Exactly.I could understand this construct in GURPS 4e,but not in the Hero System.

[schir1964]

Re: New Power: Adjustment Reserve

 

The same questions about the Adjustment Reserve could also be asked about the END Reserve. But that's beside the point.

 

This construct has no fade rate associated with it. Using Aid or any other adjustment power to feed directly has an imposed fade rate with it. This does not, since the points being fed into are equivalent to being "healed" back, just like and END Reserve. The points stay available until a power that feeds off it is used.

 

It's much simpler than a VPP, which has some restrictions that can't be circumvented. And it makes certain concepts easier to build.

 

I'm not suggesting anyone be forced to use it or whether it's needed. Just asking for opinions on the construct itself, whether it would be imbalancing, or create problems in certain areas, etc...

 

Must be a pretty solid construct since so few have commented.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[Hyper-Man]

Re: New Power: Adjustment Reserve

 

I am curious about the details of what this actually allows. I see you have advantages for how many different powers you can boost via the reserve but are there any built in limits to the variety of powers you can boost? Can it be used for Characteristics like STR? Or DEX? How do you figure the End cost for a boost when base power does not cost END or is bought with Reduced End? Lot's of gray areas...

 

Maybe a side by side comparison of what you are trying to accomplish with standard Aid/Succor rules and how this construct would handle it better so everyone can get a better handle on what you're actually suggesting?

 

HM

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: New Power: Adjustment Reserve

 

It looks to me like an END Reserve used to power nothing but Extra Push.

[schir1964]

Re: New Power: Adjustment Reserve

 

It looks to me like an END Reserve used to power nothing but Extra Push.

BINGO!

 

Thanks for explaining it so simply. (8^D)

 

- Christopher Mullins

[schir1964]

Re: New Power: Adjustment Reserve

 

I am curious about the details of what this actually allows.

See Archers post above.

 

I see you have advantages for how many different powers you can boost via the reserve but are there any built in limits to the variety of powers you can boost? Can it be used for Characteristics like STR? Or DEX?

It can be used to boost Stats and/or Powers.

 

How do you figure the End cost for a boost when base power does not cost END or is bought with Reduced End? Lot's of gray areas...

Thanks for pointing this out. I've edited the post to include the fact that Adjustment Reserve costs no Endurance. The power/stat that is boosted calculates END as normal (1 END/10 AP or as appropriate).

 

The boosting effect lasts only as long as there are points in the Reserve.

 

Maybe a side by side comparison of what you are trying to accomplish with standard Aid/Succor rules and how this construct would handle it better so everyone can get a better handle on what you're actually suggesting?

The concept is a pool of points that character can draw on to boost his powers. He can boost one power massively and use up all the points or boost many powers a little, or boost one power a little for long time.

 

Keep in mind that the "Official Rule" for multiple Adjustment Powers use is that each adjustment fades totally independent of the other. This construct simplifies that complication immensly. And offers a more consistent way of handling boosted powers/stats.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[Dust Raven]

Re: New Power: Adjustment Reserve

 

BINGO!

 

Thanks for explaining it so simply. (8^D)

 

- Christopher Mullins

 

I was reading through your original post and was trying to figure out what it could do that VPP couldn't, then came across this.

 

So it's basically an uber-push power that affects anything that takes an action to use? (and presumablly END?)

 

Mmm... even now I can't think of why a VPP couldn't be used to do the same thing. What aspects of it do you think can't be circumvented?

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: New Power: Adjustment Reserve

 

He was trying to help build the character that was asked about in this thread.

[schir1964]

Re: New Power: Adjustment Reserve

 

I was reading through your original post and was trying to figure out what it could do that VPP couldn't, then came across this.

 

So it's basically an uber-push power that affects anything that takes an action to use? (and presumablly END?)

 

Mmm... even now I can't think of why a VPP couldn't be used to do the same thing. What aspects of it do you think can't be circumvented?

Actually, I don't think this is fair question, since you could say this about END Reserve or technically any other power.

 

In other words, what can't a VPP do compared to any other power?

 

Perhaps you meant to ask, Why would an Adjustment Reserve be a better fit than a VPP?

 

1) VPP is a fairly complex framework. An Adjustment Reserve is simpler a more direct way of handling this concept. This strictly opinion and a matter of taste, so don't take it as proof.

 

2) VPP has some hard restrictions concerning AP totals and RC totals of the powers used within. Adjustment Reserve only has one restriction concerning AP and none concerning RC of simultaneous powers.

 

Is there anything else I can clarify about it's use?

 

- Christopher Mullins

[zornwil]

Re: New Power: Adjustment Reserve

 

One nit-pick - for game consistency and presumably balance consistency, I'd think that the 1 powers/2 powers/4 powers/8 powers should instead be the Varying Effect Advantage.

 

I don't think it's unbalancing, but not sure. Seems useful. Christopher, have you gone to the trouble of comparing this in effect to similar constructions and reviewing the difference in points spend to identify any major differences? I'd suggest doing that. I could do so later as well, but not at the moment.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: New Power: Adjustment Reserve

 

See Archers post above.

Extra Push. Got it.

 

It can be used to boost Stats and/or Powers.

I was not aware that DEX or Speed could be pushed under current rules. You may want to clarify this further.

 

Thanks for pointing this out. I've edited the post to include the fact that Adjustment Reserve costs no Endurance. The power/stat that is boosted calculates END as normal (1 END/10 AP or as appropriate).

Again, sidestepping the real question.

 

Say a character has a 6d6 HA with (+1) worth of advantages (total of 60 active points). What does a 10 point use of your proposed adjustment reserve do for this power? Add +1d6 or +2d6? Does this then increase the amount of STR that can be added to the power from 30 STR to 35 or 40?

 

The concept is a pool of points that character can draw on to boost his powers. He can boost one power massively and use up all the points or boost many powers a little, or boost one power a little for long time.

That's not really pushing then as it would either force a character's power-set to be looked at with this ability in particular when being compared to campaign DC/Active point limits.

 

Keep in mind that the "Official Rule" for multiple Adjustment Powers use is that each adjustment fades totally independent of the other. This construct simplifies that complication immensly. And offers a more consistent way of handling boosted powers/stats.

 

- Christopher Mullins

The more I think about it, the more this idea sounds like a form of Succor in 2-3 slot Multipower all powered by an End Reserve. The only hitch there is that Suppress (Succor is just a positive Suppress) is not normally usable on characteristics. And yep, this construction method would be more expensive.

 

HM

[schir1964]

Re: New Power: Adjustment Reserve

 

Extra Push. Got it.

It's a Push in essence, but more than a standard push. This allows you push beyond what a standard push would allow, and therefore is not constrained by all the rules of push.

 

I was not aware that DEX or Speed could be pushed under current rules. You may want to clarify this further.

Actually, the rules state that any power/stat that costs END can be pushed. So SPD and DEX can be pushed, they just need to cost END. But that restriction doesn't apply to an Adjustment Reserve anyway.

 

Say a character has a 6d6 HA with (+1) worth of advantages (total of 60 active points). What does a 10 point use of your proposed adjustment reserve do for this power? Add +1d6 or +2d6? Does this then increase the amount of STR that can be added to the power from 30 STR to 35 or 40?

First, the Reserve holds Active Points that can be added to a Stat/Power. This way, all Adders/Advantages are automatically taken into account when it draws from the Reserve. So if player draws 30 AP from the Reserve, that 30 Points may add +6d6 to straight STR, or +2d6 HKA, or less if advantages have been applied to these powers.

 

That's not really pushing then as it would either force a character's power-set to be looked at with this ability in particular when being compared to campaign DC/Active point limits.

 

The more I think about it, the more this idea sounds like a form of Succor in 2-3 slot Multipower all powered by an End Reserve. The only hitch there is that Suppress (Succor is just a positive Suppress) is not normally usable on characteristics. And yep, this construction method would be more expensive.

Yes, the closest thing to it is Succor, except that Succor is limited by Max Limit that would apply to all powers universally.

 

The Adjustment Reserve has a different flexibility in that Points can be distributed in any fashion and the Max Points is the total Reserve. Also, Succor lasts as long a you pay END, where an Adjustment Reserve lasts only as long there are points in the Reserve. You can push things that don't cost END.

 

The cost is not set in stone, that's one of the reasons for this thread. (8^D)

 

I response to Zornwil, I haven't run a cost analysis of any sort. I'm not the number cruncher like many that frequent here are. I was hoping someone else would run the numbers for me. (8^D)

 

- Christopher Mullins

[zornwil]

Re: New Power: Adjustment Reserve

 

Heh, I'm not either, so I have the same hope when I throw something up, so I relate. Maybe Gary will come by here...

[prestidigitator]

Re: New Power: Adjustment Reserve

 

The way I would do this is to buy N seperate 1d6 Aids that can affect any Power one at a time, with Succor and Costs 0 End. Buy up the maximum effect of every one of them to 6N (or 3N if you use the Standard Effect Rule) so that they can all be added to the same power at once. Then maybe you can put them into an Elemental Control since they are OBVIOUSLY very related.

 

The only hitch there is that Suppress (Succor is just a positive Suppress) is not normally usable on characteristics.

Suppress is not normally usable on characteristics, but Aid/Succor is.

[Dust Raven]

Re: New Power: Adjustment Reserve

 

Actually, I don't think this is fair question, since you could say this about END Reserve or technically any other power.

 

In other words, what can't a VPP do compared to any other power?

 

Perhaps you meant to ask, Why would an Adjustment Reserve be a better fit than a VPP?

 

1) VPP is a fairly complex framework. An Adjustment Reserve is simpler a more direct way of handling this concept. This strictly opinion and a matter of taste, so don't take it as proof.

 

2) VPP has some hard restrictions concerning AP totals and RC totals of the powers used within. Adjustment Reserve only has one restriction concerning AP and none concerning RC of simultaneous powers.

 

Is there anything else I can clarify about it's use?

 

- Christopher Mullins

Actually, a more accurate way of phrasing my question would be: What does Adjustment Reserve do that isn't already done using other rules?

 

Being simpler doesn't mean it does anything new or differently. You could say that EB is just a simpler form of RKA and that's why it's used, but it actually relates differently and significently to the system. What it is about Adjustment Reserve that does this.

 

Note: I'm really not trying to pick at you or anything, but I've noticed your tendancy to create a new rule, Power, Framework, etc for just about everything you feel the standard rules can't get done. House rules are fun though, but I want to poke enough holes in this that if it still floats when I'm done, you'll know you have a workable rule.

[prestidigitator]

Re: New Power: Adjustment Reserve

 

The way I would do this is to buy N seperate 1d6 Aids that can affect any Power one at a time' date=' with Succor and Costs 0 End. Buy up the maximum effect of every one of them to 6N (or 3N if you use the Standard Effect Rule) so that they can all be added to the same power at once. Then maybe you can put them into an Elemental Control since they are OBVIOUSLY very related.[/quote']

Upon thinking about this some more, I realized I would probably allow different dice of a single Aid to apply to different Powers, if they could boost any Power, one at a time. However, I'd make the maximum each Power could be boosted equal to the maximum that could be rolled on the dice that were actually applied to that Power.

 

For example, if you had a 6d6 Succor that could be applied to any Power, one at a time, I would allow you to apply 2d6 to Str, 2d6 to Dex, and 2d6 to your Energy Blast, but the maximum active points that could be added to any of those by the Power or any combination of Powers would be 12 APs each, not 36.

 

This means I would let you do your pooled adjustment thingie with just a Succor, Can Boost Any Power One at a Time, 0 End. Oh, and probably Self Only (since it sounds like maybe you can only boost your own Characteristics and Powers).

[schir1964]

Re: New Power: Adjustment Reserve

 

Actually' date=' a more accurate way of phrasing my question would be: What does Adjustment Reserve do that isn't already done using other rules?[/quote']

Basically this is the same question I used. Why is the Adjustment Reserve a better fit than any other power construct?

 

Being simpler doesn't mean it does anything new or differently. You could say that EB is just a simpler form of RKA and that's why it's used' date=' but it actually relates differently and significently to the system. What it is about Adjustment Reserve that does this.[/quote']

Actually, a better comparison would be Armor and Force Field. Both can be transformed into each other with Advantages/Limitations, but they exist separately for convenience sake alone, unless you have some information about this that would suggest otherwise, and you may have. But that is my opinion, and is neither here or there. (8^D)

 

Note: I'm really not trying to pick at you or anything' date=' but I've noticed your tendancy to create a new rule, Power, Framework, etc for just about everything you feel the standard rules can't get done. House rules are fun though, but I want to poke enough holes in this that if it still floats when I'm done, you'll know you have a workable rule.[/quote']

Dust Raven, I discussed things with you long enough to know that you wouldn't deliberately pick on me. And you know that I generally don't take offense to criticisms of my posts. Especially when it's concerning a rules concept.

 

I can understand how it may "appear" that I have a tendency to create new rules, but in reality the number of new rules constructs that I actually use is three. There are various house rules that I use, but they are simply options or variants of official rules suggested here. I no longer jump into any post concerning rules, unless I have something unique to add. Since most people already cover the basics, I rarely see a reason post. (8^D)

 

Now on to the meat of this post. I only came up with this concept when I was trying to help in the other thread that's already been referenced to.

 

Based on what he described, the character could absorb the heat from objects and pool that energy for use with any of his powers. They would feed off this pool of energy. This pool of energy would allow him to boost his powers beyond normal levels. The pool of energy would remain until he used it.

 

Every solution that had been given, seemed overly complicated or jury rigged in some way. This triggered my "Rules Extrapolation" psychological limtation. (8^D)

 

It usually gets triggered when a concept causes someone to have to use overly complicated methods. And I determine what is overly complicated. (8^D)

 

Anyway, I considered your question seriously and realized that using that particular argument, there would be no reason to have an END Reserve. You can achieve it relatively easily with other powers (Aid, Succor, VPP, etc...). So why was END Reserve created as separate power? My guess is that it has to do with the pool aspect of the Reserve that other powers feed off of. I used this as the basis of my extrapolation.

 

Therefore, what makes the Adjustment Reserve a better fit that other powers available? The Pool aspect, just like the END Reserve.

 

Does anyone have to agree with this? No.

However, I'm willing to listen to any arguments or examples of this can be achieved with existing powers and still have the Pool Aspect of it. It is possible to convince me.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[schir1964]

Re: New Power: Adjustment Reserve

 

Upon thinking about this some more' date=' I realized I would probably allow different dice of a single Aid to apply to different Powers, if they could boost any Power, one at a time. However, I'd make the maximum each Power could be boosted equal to the maximum that could be rolled on the dice [i']that were actually applied to that Power[/i].

 

For example, if you had a 6d6 Succor that could be applied to any Power, one at a time, I would allow you to apply 2d6 to Str, 2d6 to Dex, and 2d6 to your Energy Blast, but the maximum active points that could be added to any of those by the Power or any combination of Powers would be 12 APs each, not 36.

Why one at time? Why not simultaneously?

Why restrict it to 12 AP each? If there are 36 Points to draw on, then why not use 36?

 

This means I would let you do your pooled adjustment thingie with just a Succor' date=' Can Boost Any Power One at a Time, 0 End. Oh, and probably Self Only (since it sounds like maybe you can only boost your own Characteristics and Powers).[/quote']

You also mentioned Zero Endurance for the Succor. This means that when the Succor boosts a power, it stays boosted forever until you turn off the Succor, right? At least that's the way the rules say it would work. Or am I missing something?

 

- Christopher Mullins

[prestidigitator]

Re: New Power: Adjustment Reserve

 

Therefore, what makes the Adjustment Reserve a better fit that other powers available? The Pool aspect, just like the END Reserve.

 

Does anyone have to agree with this? No.

However, I'm willing to listen to any arguments or examples of this can be achieved with existing powers and still have the Pool Aspect of it. It is possible to convince me.

 

- Christopher Mullins

Chris - Check out my previous post. Essentially, I justified using your dice of Aid/Succor as a "pool." If you used the Standard Effect Rule, I think you would have just about exactly what you wanted.

[prestidigitator]

Re: New Power: Adjustment Reserve

 

Why one at time? Why not simultaneously?

Why restrict it to 12 AP each? If there are 36 Points to draw on, then why not use 36?

Because in a way you are dividing your bid Aid/Succor into a bunch of small Aid/Succors, and applying them seperately. Each one can boost any Power, one at a time.

 

EDIT: It's of little consequence, though, unless you want to try to use the Aid/Succor multiple times on the same Power, or someone else is already boosting your Power.

 

You also mentioned Zero Endurance for the Succor. This means that when the Succor boosts a power, it stays boosted forever until you turn off the Succor, right? At least that's the way the rules say it would work. Or am I missing something?

Correct. Or until you are Stunned or Knocked Out. You could always apply Persistent or Uncontrolled (be careful to run the Uncontrolled one past your GM, though) too, if you wanted it to last even longer.

[schir1964]

Re: New Power: Adjustment Reserve

 

Because in a way you are dividing your bid Aid/Succor into a bunch of small Aid/Succors, and applying them seperately. Each one can boost any Power, one at a time.

 

EDIT: It's of little consequence, though, unless you want to try to use the Aid/Succor multiple times on the same Power, or someone else is already boosting your Power.

Which is exactly one of the things the Adjustment Reserve allows you to do. If you purchase the Adjustment Reserve to allow Eight Powers, you can choose to let one power use all the points in the pool or you can use multiple powers at lesser levels. Maybe you missed the post where I poiinted this out.

 

Correct. Or until you are Stunned or Knocked Out. You could always apply Persistent or Uncontrolled (be careful to run the Uncontrolled one past your GM' date=' though) too, if you wanted it to last even longer.[/quote']

Ok, I now understand what you are saying concerning the Dice = Pool idea.

 

Very creative idea actually, however, it still falls short of the concept described. Once the pool is empty, it much be refilled in some manner.

 

Your implementation suggests that once a person uses up his pool, the pool of points is instantly available for use again. In fact, any use of any power using the pool, the points are instantly available again, at least the way you have described it. Perhaps I don't understand how you applying certain rules.

 

[Addendum]

Also, the Adjustment Reserve does not boost any powers untill the power itself is actually used. And once the Pool is in use, it's only matter of time before it's used up, which is completely dependent on the power used and at what level it's used. Your concept allows the character to keep his boosted power indefinately, once the power is used.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[prestidigitator]

Re: New Power: Adjustment Reserve

 

Which is exactly one of the things the Adjustment Reserve allows you to do. If you purchase the Adjustment Reserve to allow Eight Powers' date=' you can choose to let one power use all the points in the pool or you can use multiple powers at lesser levels. Maybe you missed the post where I poiinted this out.[/quote']

I understand completely. And splitting up the, "dice pool," as we might call it ( ) to use on different powers would be one use of the Aid/Succor. Repeating the use with the same split for more Charges/End/for free would boost the Powers even more, but only up to the limit that you can apply to those powers. In my example of 2d6 to Str, 2d6 to Dex, and 2d6 to Energy Blast, you could again apply the 2d6, 2d6, and 2d6, but only until each Power was at +12 APs.

 

Ok, I now understand what you are saying concerning the Dice = Pool idea.

 

Very creative idea actually, however, it still falls short of the concept described. Once the pool is empty, it much be refilled in some manner.

 

Your implementation suggests that once a person uses up his pool, the pool of points is instantly available for use again. In fact, any use of any power using the pool, the points are instantly available again, at least the way you have described it. Perhaps I don't understand how you applying certain rules.

I'd still go with the Succor, but, instead of buying it to 0 End, feed it off an End Reserve (or Charges, though this could get tricky if you are dividing up the dice; whatever).

 

Also, the Adjustment Reserve does not boost any powers untill the power itself is actually used. And once the Pool is in use, it's only matter of time before it's used up, which is completely dependent on the power used and at what level it's used. Your concept allows the character to keep his boosted power indefinately, once the power is used.

Eh. Semantics. You can activate an Aid/Succor as a free action, so you can turn it on as you use the other Power.