Mythology and Superhumanity

[Steve]

The life and adventures of superheroes are, in a sense, modern mythology, larger-than-life characters in fantastic situations. In roleplaying we tell stories together as a group, sometimes even learning something about ourselves and our friends in the process. I was wondering if anyone has ever explored that mythological element at all in a campaign. I don't mean using the outward trappings of mythology, like a superhero based on Thor or Apollo, but using myth to deepen a campaign and enrich it for everyone who participates.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Mythology and Superhumanity

 

To a large extent this is already built into what superheroes represent. I've long held that superhero comics are the mythology of America.

 

Mythic figures capture and hold our imagination because they embody instinctively held beliefs and emotions that resonate for many, if not most people. Superman is perhaps the most outstanding comic book example, being rife with mythic archetypes: last survivor of a noble house, sent away as an infant to escape his people's destruction; raised in secret not knowing the truth of his past; grows up to be the champion of his adopted people, the slayer of monsters. Arthur, Siegfried, Beowulf, Aragorn, Moses... all share at least some of these archetypes.

 

OTOH you have Batman, his story drawing from the classic revenge tragedy (with precedents from Achilles to Hamlet), with the variation that his desire for revenge, and more generally for justice, is an ongoing motivation for his actions. Spider-Man's origin also started with elements of revenge, not just for the murder of his uncle but on some level against the bullying and scorn that he'd experienced in his youth; but his story turned that around into a parable about responsibility.

 

In many ways a really good superhero origin is like a modern myth, a great story that's memorable because it holds deeper meaning for us. All myths say something profound about the people that create them, what they value and how they see their place in the world. That's why I call comics the mythology of America. Reading them you can see American culture in the ideals that motivate superheroes: truth, justice and the rule of law; the responsibility of the strong to protect the weak; the few standing against all the forces of chaos and destruction; extraordinary beings who consider less gifted individuals to be fundamentally their equals, worthy of respect.

[Hermit]

Re: Mythology and Superhumanity

 

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Lord Liaden again.

 

Darn fine post, L.L.

 

This is a good subject, I'm going to have to think about it more but am not sure what to add to the above post that wouldn't be redundant. I do know that in my own campaigns sometimes I adapt the old "The Land and the King are one" theme, and change it to "The land and its champions are one" ... when the super heroes are gone or in decline, so is the city. When the super heroes are ascendent, noble and true, the city is an echo of a modern day camelot where the "New" Knights ride forth to battle monsters on two legs.

 

That's not a constant, but I do use it a lot.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Mythology and Superhumanity

 

To a large extent this is already built into what superheroes represent. I've long held that superhero comics are the mythology of America.

 

I agree with you. And so does David Brinn. I loved the line in Thor Meets Captain America - "Our myths were boundless" referecing Superman or Captain Marvel (it is unclear).

[Trebuchet]

Re: Mythology and Superhumanity

 

Permit me to heartily second Hermit's observation, LL. It seems I must also spread more reputation around before I can give you more.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Mythology and Superhumanity

 

Permit me to heartily second Hermit's observation' date=' LL. It seems I must also spread more reputation around before I can give you more. [/quote']

 

Ha ha I had rep free. I did it already.

[hooligan x]

Re: Mythology and Superhumanity

 

Another rep party at LL's house!

[Doug McCrae]

Re: Mythology and Superhumanity

 

I was wondering if anyone has ever explored that mythological element at all in a campaign. I don't mean using the outward trappings of mythology' date=' like a superhero based on Thor or Apollo, but using myth to deepen a campaign and enrich it for everyone who participates.[/quote']So what would that involve then? Other than the usual bad guy whomping action.

[John T]

Re: Mythology and Superhumanity

 

Ha ha I had rep free. I did it already.

Me too, though thanks to LL's post I'm in the somewhat depressing state of really only being able to say "Yeah, what HE said..."

 

I think that, to achieve this kind of Modern Myth feel, it's extremely important to ask all your players one question - Why? Why does your character do this, putting himself in harm's way, risking humiliation, public scorn, injury, even death? What ideals does he hold close to his heart, what social and moral concepts does he embody that drive him forward?

 

John T

[Mike W]

Re: Mythology and Superhumanity

 

Occasionally, I've based stories around real life myths, but that's about it. I've never been around a group mystically oriented enough to make it worth while to go farther.

[Steve]

Re: Mythology and Superhumanity

 

So what would that involve then? Other than the usual bad guy whomping action.

 

Well, one theme from mythology is that a hero discovers something about himself in the course of the adventure/journey and grows as a person. A player who enjoys plumbing their character's personality and background would watch for elements in the adventures that relate to their character, especially those that cause them to question why they do what they do.

 

Peter Parker is an example of a heroic myth along these lines. Through a great tragedy in his life brought about by a choice he made, he learned that "With great power, there comes an equally great responsibility." So the boy became a man, became the hero Spider-Man, instead of using his gifts selfishly.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Mythology and Superhumanity

 

Doggone it, LL, I can't rep you for another 2 days yet!

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Mythology and Superhumanity

 

So what would that involve then? Other than the usual bad guy whomping action.

 

 

Well, one theme from mythology is that a hero discovers something about himself in the course of the adventure/journey and grows as a person. A player who enjoys plumbing their character's personality and background would watch for elements in the adventures that relate to their character, especially those that cause them to question why they do what they do.

 

Peter Parker is an example of a heroic myth along these lines. Through a great tragedy in his life brought about by a choice he made, he learned that "With great power, there comes an equally great responsibility." So the boy became a man, became the hero Spider-Man, instead of using his gifts selfishly.

 

Absolutely. The journey of self-discovery is a classic character motivation, seen in many legends. It's usually sparked by some other event or change that forces the hero out of the life he knew, like a tragedy or the revelation of a secret about himself. Of course the hero must learn and grow for the journey to have any meaning, leading her to evolve as a character.

 

We mentioned revenge as another mythic theme; for modern superheroes the impulse for revenge usually eventually evolves into a more positive motivation, as it did for Batman and Spider-Man, except for Punisher-style vigilantes. Some other classic themes which might be used in superhero games include:

 

Legacy. The hero is the inheritor of a title or extraordinary ability which carries with it power or privilege, but also responsibility; or a duty or debt incurred by a relative which the hero must now fulfill. The "relative" in this case can be a mentor or similar non-family, and may be a living active part of the hero's life or have passed on, usually tragically. The hero often feels the pressure to live up to his predecessor's example.

 

Atonement. The hero has something in her past that she feels guilty or ashamed of, and is driven to try to make up for that. This could be something that the hero herself has done, or else the action of a relative or other person that the hero feels is her duty to balance out. Such heroes are often deeply conflicted and uncertain, and if their guilt is over a pattern of past behavior they're often tempted to return to their old ways. This is frequently an element of the journey theme above.

 

The Nemesis. This is an antagonist who is the natural and greatest opponent of the hero. He or she may be similar in background and abilities to the hero, or very different; but in modern comic stories the nemesis is usually diametrically opposed to everything the hero stands for. The most dramatically effective nemeses are those who have a powerful personal connection to the hero: father, sister, son, once-best friend or lover, protege, longtime rival etc. The nemesis is often the "dark reflection" of the hero, and underscores what the hero is fighting for.

 

Champion of a Cause. The hero is particularly dedicated to the achievement and preservation of some goal or ideal. This can be focussed such as freeing an oppressed minority or ending a tyrannical regime, or general as with the promotion of justice or elimination of crime. This motivation is particularly good for a limited story arc where the goal can ultimately be achieved. In that way it's very similar to...

 

The Quest. The hero has been given a specific task to achieve, problem to solve or opponent to fight, and that becomes the focus of the story. This is often the plot around which some of the other themes are developed.

 

Sacrifice. A hallmark of the hero is willingness to give up their own happiness for what they believe to be the greater good. Heroes may sacrifice their home, true love, a normal life, and ultimately their own lives for their ideals. In the last case the sacrifice is often the incentive for other characters to take up the hero's Legacy, or for a character with a dark past to seek Atonement.

[Doug McCrae]

Re: Mythology and Superhumanity

 

Well' date=' one theme from mythology is that a hero discovers something about himself in the course of the adventure/journey and grows as a person.[/quote']Growing as a person sounds a bit modern to me. I don't recall Beowulf doing that. Just kicking ass. And then dying.

[Steve]

Re: Mythology and Superhumanity

 

Growing as a person sounds a bit modern to me. I don't recall Beowulf doing that. Just kicking ass. And then dying.

 

Well, not every myth is going to use this theme. It was just one given as an example. The Power of Myth and other works by Joseph Campbell are good resources for others.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Mythology and Superhumanity

 

Growing as a person sounds a bit modern to me. I don't recall Beowulf doing that. Just kicking ass. And then dying.

 

Well, the perception of "growth" as increasing self-awareness is kind of a modern spin on the process. Certainly many mythic figures don't experience anything like that progress. OTOH we have Gilgamesh, who goes from selfish tyrant to hero through his friendship with Enkidu, the death of the latter prompting his fear of death and search for an alternative. Then there's Launcelot, whose forbidden love for Guinevere leads to his fall and madness, seeking to redeem himself by abandoning his knightly life, and his ultimate death opposing the king he once served. Of course in the classic Chinese narrative Journey to the West the journey is an explicit allegory for spiritual enlightenment.

[Hermit]

Re: Mythology and Superhumanity

 

Well' date=' not every myth is going to use this theme. It was just one given as an example. [i']The Power of Myth[/i] and other works by Joseph Campbell are good resources for others.

 

I'm not that good at Celtic mythology, but it does seem that the 'young boy grows into a warrior and learns to be a man as well' thing is pretty common there.

[The Mad GM]

Re: Mythology and Superhumanity

 

And of course, Luke stops whining and settles down even by the end of the first movie!

 

But back on topic, using either Campbell's analysis of the Hero's Journey, or others (and there are many others) to plan out a campaign is an interesting idea. However, the players are the heroes, and if they don't want to roleplay a hero's spiritual progression, then it's all for naught.

 

You could easily incorporate some of the steps in the classic journey into your campaign. One thing to remember is that they are not necessarily in strict chronological order. Session 7 might have Tests and Trials, but that doesn't mean Session 8 needs to be Meeting the Goddess. Nor should you feel constrained to keep every sub-step in there. This is just a framework to help shape your ideas:

 

Seperation: This is the part where the hero decides to leave behind the protected existence of childhood for the challenges and rewards of adulthood. This might be covered by background rather than being played out. In Campbell's model, the sub-steps included The Call to Adventure, the First Refusal of the Call, Supernatural Aid, Crossing the First Threshold (leaving the familiar and safe), and The Belly of the Whale (the death star sequence in Star Wars). Most players wouldn't refuse the first call, but none of the substeps are essential, really. Most campaigns start at or after Crossing the First Threshold, where the hero embarks on the quest.

 

Initiation This is the heart of a campaign. Substeps include:

Tests and Trials (think danger room, boot camp, "let go of your feelings, Luke" type of thing)

The symbolic or actual death or dismemberment (Now hold on a minute, you might be saying, there's no resurrect in my campaign. Well, that's why it's symbolic. It signifies a major setback or obstacle. Hey, adversity builds character, my dad always said.)

meeting the goddess (or other spiritual teaching/encouragement)

Temptation from the true path

Atonement and/or Recognition by the father (or father-type figure, king, leader, what-have-you)

--The goddess and the father are the easiest to screw up, because it typically involves necessarily butch NPCs, which everyone hates because it minimizes the importance of the characters to the campaign. The goddess and father figures should be constrained in some way so that they don't do the heroes job for them, but instead grant the players knowledge or powers.

Apotheosis (becoming godlike, or finally spending a major wad of xp)

The ultimate boon (big victory, not necesarily the final victory)

 

Return - In the mythology sense, this is the return of the hero to his or her home, and using their new-found powers to clean up the problems that sent them out in the first place.

Refusal of return - This is an element that depends heavily on the Players, but it could be done. Perhaps the ultimate boon is finished yet, or there's some reason the characters would want to stay in harms way

Magic Flight - Pretty straightforward.

Rescue - Again, we stand close to the abyss of having an uber-PC cast their shadow on the Hero, but it might be a simple matter of having

Re-crossing the threshold

Master of two worlds - usually the recognition of the heroes achievements by friends and family, the parade and ticker tape.

Freedom to live - happily ever after. At least until the sequel.

 

Again, this is just a framework, and it isn't the only one out there. As far as applying it to a game, much of the "Departure" and "Return" are normally pre and post game stuff. It is a little dangerous to see this as a step-by-step guide to game design. It might serve as a tool for analysing a game you're thinking of running. You shouldn't feel you need to cram a goddess figure into every game, or a symbolic death.

 

As far as using mythical elements, even transposed into modern day, it's hard to swing a dead metaphor without whacking into an archetype or three.

[FenrisUlf]

Re: Mythology and Superhumanity

 

Darn fine post, L.L.

 

This is a good subject, I'm going to have to think about it more but am not sure what to add to the above post that wouldn't be redundant. I do know that in my own campaigns sometimes I adapt the old "The Land and the King are one" theme, and change it to "The land and its champions are one" ... when the super heroes are gone or in decline, so is the city. When the super heroes are ascendent, noble and true, the city is an echo of a modern day camelot where the "New" Knights ride forth to battle monsters on two legs.

 

That's not a constant, but I do use it a lot.

 

Say, did you ever read any of Tim Power's novels, esp. LAST CALL or DRAWING OF THE DARK? He deals a lot with the idea of the 'Sacred King', which he often refers to as 'the King of the West'. What he does sounds a lot like what you're talking about here.

 

Hmm.. that makes me wonder what would happen if a super/villain/ usurped the position of the King? Or even just a bloody-minded, cruel vigilante 'hero'? If "The Land and the King are one", that could explain why a previously Silver or Bronze world starts going very dark Iron.

 

(It gets even better if you consider that in many differing mythologies, the 'Age of Iron' is supposed to be an age of blood, madness, and corruption.)

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Mythology and Superhumanity

 

Say' date=' did you ever read any of Tim Power's novels, esp. LAST CALL or DRAWING OF THE DARK? He deals a lot with the idea of the 'Sacred King', which he often refers to as 'the King of the West'. What he does sounds a lot like what you're talking about here.[/quote']

The Drawing of the Dark is a great novel. I highly reccomend it!

[The Mad GM]

Re: Mythology and Superhumanity

 

Tim Powers is great! Drawing of the Dark deals very obviously with Arthurian and older Celtic mythos, whereas Expiration Date and Earthquake Weather are more modern interpretations, but they all deal with people filling the roles of these archetypes, and how those roles affect the world, and how the people affect the archetypes themselves. Great stuff!

 

In a campaign where the characters are central to the events of the world, this is a great reference.

[Steve]

Re: Mythology and Superhumanity

 

Speaking of archetypes, what is the current status of Scott Bennie's Gestalt campaign? I haven't agitated for it in a number of months. It seems it is time to do so again.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Mythology and Superhumanity

 

Last I heard, Scott is pursuing self-publication for Gestalt, statting the characters for M&M Superlink as well as HERO. I remember a few months ago he posted here asking for people to help him go over the M&M conversions.

[Guest lucky]

Re: Mythology and Superhumanity

 

I'm actually working on a campaign idea right now that would explicitly involve mythical archetypes made flesh.

 

The basic premise is that humanity, as a species, is facing an imminent threat. No-one is consciously aware of it but on an unconscious level, there's a planetwide sense of unease building. A good analogy is the mouse and the owl: when the shadow of a flying owl passes over the mouse, the rodent freezes. It doesn't know why, but some deeply-ingrained instinct "feels" the presence of a life-destroying predator. Humanity is feeling the shadow of an owl passing over it.

 

(The actual threat will manifest in the form of an invading species, but that's a long way off and won't begin in earnest until the second act of the campaign, five or six adventures in.)

 

For now, humanity is unconsciously generating "antibodies," of a sort. They would come to be called 'the godlings' and they are humanity's myths made flesh. Archetypal heroes spun from dreams and legends, they start to appear in the months before the invasion begins. This is where the campaign begins, during the appearance of the first godlings.

 

I should mention that these creatures aren't human, although they do appear to be. They spring fully grown from humanity's brow and appear spontaneously. They have no memory of a prior existence and no curiosity about how they came to exist. They appear all across the globe, though their incidence is highest in Africa, southern Europe (the Iberian Peninsula), the Middle East and Central Asia.

 

I'm still working out the details, but this thread gives me food for thought...

[The Mad GM]

Re: Mythology and Superhumanity

 

David Brin recently had a story published as a graphic novel, "The Life Eaters", with art by Scott Hampton. The premise is along those lines, but with a more sinister twist. It's set in WWII, in what might be an interesting Golden Age setting. You might want to check it out.