STUN/BODY reach 0

[Foxx!]

Heroes!

 

I thought that when your STUN reaches 0 or less, END goes to 0, and when your BODY reaches 0 or less, STUN and END go to 0. I noticed that the rules do not confirm this. Am I doing something wrong?

 

Cheers!

[rayoman]

Re: STUN/BODY reach 0

 

When a knocked out (STUN at zero or below) character recovers (STUN > 0) then teh character's END is equal to his current STUN. Check out page 411 of reFred or 5ER if u will, under the heading Knockout.

[Revenant]

Re: STUN/BODY reach 0

 

If memory serves (the GM is the only one that actually owns 5th ed), when Stun goes to 0, End goes to 0. When Body goes to 0, Stun doesn't go to 0 and neither does End. This basically simulates that you can be concious while bleeding to death.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: STUN/BODY reach 0

 

You can run out of BODY and still have a positive STUN total and keep on trucking.

 

This allows the HERO System to handle situations where a character is alive and conscious, but bleeding out and dying, which not many other systems cover.

 

Side story, anyone ever play in a D&D or other early gaming adventure, where the PC's encounter a dying NPC who gives up some important plot point just before dying, or else their unfortunate death is the important plot point, only to have the Cleric say "Gee -- I cast cure light wounds on them!", or the rules lawyer ask "Um....if they are at negative hitpoints, then how are they conscious and talking?"?

[CourtFool]

Re: STUN/BODY reach 0

 

One of the reasons I am such a fanboi of Hero is that you can knock someone unconcious without doing long-term/serious damage...a staple of cinema.

[Dust Raven]

Re: STUN/BODY reach 0

 

"Gee -- I cast cure light wounds on them!"

Sorry, no time, he's using a soliloquy right now and it's the only thing keeping him from expiring.

 

"Um....if they are at negative hitpoints, then how are they conscious and talking?"?

 

Um... it's a new Feat I saw in Dragon Magazine... yeah...

[Dust Raven]

Re: STUN/BODY reach 0

 

Heroes!

 

I thought that when your STUN reaches 0 or less, END goes to 0, and when your BODY reaches 0 or less, STUN and END go to 0. I noticed that the rules do not confirm this. Am I doing something wrong?

 

Cheers!

 

Yep, you can be dying and about to shuffle off but still awake for the experience.

[Foxx!]

Re: STUN/BODY reach 0

 

Heroes!

 

Thank you all for clarifying that. I like the drama of staying on while you are minus BODY.

 

Cheers!

[rayoman]

Re: STUN/BODY reach 0

 

Side story' date=' anyone ever play in a D&D or other early gaming adventure, where the PC's encounter a dying NPC who gives up some important plot point just before dying, or else their unfortunate death is the important plot point, only to have the Cleric say "Gee -- I cast cure light wounds on them!"[/quote']

 

 

Yes.

 

 

There was a Basic DnD adventure that featured WarDuke and BraveHeart or some "Paladin" like guy. At the end of the adventure a thief walks up to take the gem that the PCs were searching for. The Thief has this entire soliloquy

 

sigh.

 

The story is important too.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: STUN/BODY reach 0

 

Yes.

 

 

There was a Basic DnD adventure that featured WarDuke and BraveHeart or some "Paladin" like guy. At the end of the adventure a thief walks up to take the gem that the PCs were searching for. The Thief has this entire soliloquy

 

sigh.

 

The story is important too.

 

"Talking is a free action, you can't interrupt his speech unless you've readied an action to do so."

or, in HERO speak,

"Making a soliloquy is a zero-phase action. You can't interrupt it unless you've been holding an action."

 

(Alternately ...)

"Okay, roll initiative." Fudge roll, thief wins. "He makes his speech, then bolts."

[prestidigitator]

Re: STUN/BODY reach 0

 

Um... it's a new Feat I saw in Dragon Magazine... yeah...

"Diehard." It's in the core rules now, I believe. It (of course) has a number of prerequisites, like everything else in the system. And unless you are a fighter, it is going to be one of your two or three total Feats until you are at a god-like level.

[sinanju]

Re: STUN/BODY reach 0

 

Side story' date=' anyone ever play in a D&D or other early gaming adventure, where the PC's encounter a dying NPC who gives up some important plot point just before dying, or else their unfortunate death is the important plot point, only to have the Cleric say "Gee -- I cast cure light wounds on them!", or the rules lawyer ask "Um....if they are at negative hitpoints, then how are they conscious and talking?"?[/quote']

 

Not D&D. GURPS Cyberpunk. One PC was mortally wounded (i.e., took enough damage to kill him outright). One of the players (the premier rules lawyer) asked if the PC could get a Dying Soliloquy [GURPS rule wherein you're allowed to make, well, a dying statement even though technically under the rules you're already dead]. The GM agreed.

 

Dying PC starts his dying soliloquy, whereupon the Rules Lawyer immediately injects him with one of the high tech drugs that stops bleeding and instantly begins healing you as long as you still have circulation. It worked...because that particular GM was a chump...uh, I mean, softie.

[prestidigitator]

Re: STUN/BODY reach 0

 

Not D&D. GURPS Cyberpunk. One PC was mortally wounded (i.e.' date=' took enough damage to kill him outright). One of the players (the premier rules lawyer) asked if the PC could get a Dying Soliloquy [GURPS rule wherein you're allowed to make, well, a dying statement even though technically under the rules you're already dead']. The GM agreed.

 

Dying PC starts his dying soliloquy, whereupon the Rules Lawyer immediately injects him with one of the high tech drugs that stops bleeding and instantly begins healing you as long as you still have circulation. It worked...because that particular GM was a chump...uh, I mean, softie.

That's just wack....

[Dust Raven]

Re: STUN/BODY reach 0

 

"Diehard." It's in the core rules now' date=' I believe. It (of course) has a number of prerequisites, like everything else in the system. And unless you are a fighter, it is going to be one of your two or three total Feats until you are at a god-like level. [/quote']

 

Oddly enough, I just picked up Oriental Adventures (James Wyatt) and came across the Remain Conscious feat. I don't know how it compares to the Diehard you mention, but with it you not only remain conscious (as its name implies), but may continue to act in combat (though with some limitations) until you reach actual death. It does have some prerequisits, though they are easily met by the upper end of low level fighters and monks.

[Dust Raven]

Re: STUN/BODY reach 0

 

Not D&D. GURPS Cyberpunk. One PC was mortally wounded (i.e.' date=' took enough damage to kill him outright). One of the players (the premier rules lawyer) asked if the PC could get a Dying Soliloquy [GURPS rule wherein you're allowed to make, well, a dying statement even though technically under the rules you're already dead']. The GM agreed.

 

Dying PC starts his dying soliloquy, whereupon the Rules Lawyer immediately injects him with one of the high tech drugs that stops bleeding and instantly begins healing you as long as you still have circulation. It worked...because that particular GM was a chump...uh, I mean, softie.

 

A completely different story (though highly related) from a Cyberpunk 2020 game I ran back when I was a kid. Night before a job the PCs decide to go for a walk and see what the nightlife was like in the neighborhood. They got about two blocks away and stumbled into a gang war. Lucky for them, they all got out of site and the two gangs were too busy with each other to notice them. But... the group's fixer (a streetwise contact man, not a mechanic) realizes who the gangs are, or at least one of them. One is a hyperreligious anit cyberware cult apparently bent of wiping out a local cybergang. The players take offense to this, and decide to take a few shots from their alley.

 

Well... nothing attracts the wrong kind of attention like gunfire. Neither gang knows who's shooting and both decide to give the alley a little extra ventillation. Miraculously, only the fixer gets hit, but is only wearing a lightly armored jacket. He's barely alive as the team drags him back through the alley, calling for a TraumaTeam pickup 'cause he's caughing up blood. The poor sucker stays conscious and is even able to give directions through the alleys for the safest/quickest routes back to their safehouse. In other words, he's making each and everyone one of his checks to see if he maintains consciousness (you only make a death check if you're out, so things are still looking good). Then the TT arrives, dropping out of the sky in their AV4s and just as the medic is giving the fixer the once over, he fails his consciousness check, immediately rolls for death and fails.

 

Nobody said anything for a while, then the fixer's player remarks (more or less) "you mean I was so happy to see a medic after surviving being physically drug two blocks while being chased by a fanatic cult that I had a chance to relaxed and just died?"

[prestidigitator]

Re: STUN/BODY reach 0

 

Oddly enough' date=' I just picked up [i']Oriental Adventures[/i] (James Wyatt) and came across the Remain Conscious feat. I don't know how it compares to the Diehard you mention, but with it you not only remain conscious (as its name implies), but may continue to act in combat (though with some limitations) until you reach actual death. It does have some prerequisits, though they are easily met by the upper end of low level fighters and monks.

 

Because I can:

 

 

DIEHARD [GENERAL]

Prerequisite: Endurance.

Benefit: When reduced to between –1 and –9 hit points, you automatically become stable. You don’t have to roll d% to see if you lose 1 hit point each round.

When reduced to negative hit points, you may choose to act as if you were disabled, rather than dying. You must make this decision as soon as you are reduced to negative hit points (even if it isn’t your turn). If you do not choose to act as if you were disabled, you immediately fall unconscious.

When using this feat, you can take either a single move or standard action each turn, but not both, and you cannot take a full round action. You can take a move action without further injuring yourself, but if you perform any standard action (or any other action deemed as strenuous, including some free actions, such as casting a quickened spell) you take 1 point of damage after completing the act. If you reach –10 hit points, you immediately die.

Normal: A character without this feat who is reduced to between –1 and –9 hit points is unconscious and dying.

 

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[Dust Raven]

Re: STUN/BODY reach 0

 

Because I can:

 

Sigh... I'm happy I'm not using the SRD in my D&D game (well, not all of it, I like what they did to Rangers). But enough of D&D, this is the Hero System board! To make everything fit nicely and be in line with the purpose of this particular board... how would you write up the Diehard feat in Hero?

 

Extra STUN that acts as a constant (rather than persistant) Power and requires a 1/2 Phase each Phase to keep it active?

[bigdamnhero]

Re: STUN/BODY reach 0

 

...how would you write up the Diehard feat in Hero?

 

Hmmm... might be interesting to write up a list of d20 feats for Hero, as a way to help convert d20 players/characters? Of course, a lot of the feats that simply give skill/ability bonuses would be self-explanatory under Hero.

[Vondy]

Re: STUN/BODY reach 0

 

/snip

 

the rules lawyer ask "Um....if they are at negative hitpoints, then how are they conscious and talking?"?

 

The NPC was clearly an AD&D Cavalier from Unearthed Aracana.

[Silbeg]

Re: STUN/BODY reach 0

 

If memory serves (the GM is the only one that actually owns 5th ed)' date=' when Stun goes to 0, End goes to 0. When Body goes to 0, Stun doesn't go to 0 and neither does End. This basically simulates that you can be concious while bleeding to death.[/quote']

 

Exactly.

The only effect of losing BODY (to damage) is that for every 1 BODY damage a character takes, that character must also take at least 1 STUN damage.

[prestidigitator]

Re: STUN/BODY reach 0

 

...how would you write up the Diehard feat in Hero?

 

Hmmm... might be interesting to write up a list of d20 feats for Hero, as a way to help convert d20 players/characters? Of course, a lot of the feats that simply give skill/ability bonuses would be self-explanatory under Hero.

I'm doing this. Most of the Feats actually turn out to be nothing more than CSLs and SLs. It is quite pathetic, in a way. The only stumbling blocks really are the Metamagic Feats, because how they would work would depend completely upon your choice of magic system. So I am leaving them out for now. I'm doing it on paper, but I can type it up and publish it here at some point if people are interested.

 

As I recall, I just made Diehard extra Body (like 5, I think), and gave it the limitation that it, "turns off," if you perform an attack action (this could bring the character to negative Body and they would thus lose Body until stabilized or until the extra Body turned back on again--the next Phase). It seemed to work reasonably. I believe it was one of the ones I was going to revisit later.

 

EDIT: P.S. - When I am done, I should have conversion rules to be able to take any PC or monster without spells to Hero. I have not yet decided whether to tackle magic next or just give up on it and come up with some guideline for the amount of points to spend toward magic for a given caster level or something.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: STUN/BODY reach 0

 

I'm doing this. Most of the Feats actually turn out to be nothing more than CSLs and SLs. It is quite pathetic, in a way. The only stumbling blocks really are the Metamagic Feats, because how they would work would depend completely upon your choice of magic system. So I am leaving them out for now. I'm doing it on paper, but I can type it up and publish it here at some point if people are interested.

 

Ah, I was *hoping* someone else had already thought of this! Speaking for myself, I'd be interested in seeing what you put together - thanks.

 

Yeah, I figured it would be mostly CSLs/SLs and Char buy-ups. I agree that the metamagic feats are probably too hard without a specific magic system in mind.

 

Cheers,

BigDamnHero