Boiling Water

[Vondy]

Has anyone worked out the damage for boiling water: Both partial immersion and total immersion?

[Bloodstone]

Re: Boiling Water

 

I think the boiling aspect would just be an EB NND (defense is LS: Heat, or rPD over entire body).

 

Total immersion would do more damage and you risk drowning (which could be written up as another NND, defese is LS: Expanded breathing [water] or Self Contained Breathing)

[Vondy]

Re: Boiling Water

 

I think the boiling aspect would just be an EB NND (defense is LS: Heat, or rPD over entire body).

 

Total immersion would do more damage and you risk drowning (which could be written up as another NND, defese is LS: Expanded breathing [water] or Self Contained Breathing)

 

I ended up building it as an Change Environment 4" that does 2 Points Damage, NND (LS: Extreme Heat; Body Not Fleshy (Robots, Etc)), Does Body, Only Costs Endurance to Activate, Gradual Effect 1 Turn.

 

I'll deal with submersion in the element by applying the drowning rules normally.

[MitchellS]

Re: Boiling Water

 

The book lists boiling oil/tar as 2-4d6K and superheated steam as 2-3d6k. There's probably not much difference between boiling oil and boiling water, so I'd go with 2d6 for 1/3 body immersion, 3d6 for 2/3, and 4d6 for full immersion.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Boiling Water

 

Oil gets quite a bit hotter than water, though. I'd cap the boiling water damage at somewhat less than superheated steam.

 

Somewhat related: I remember some former Navy friends telling me that the way they checked for leaks in the boilers was to wave a broomstick in the area where the suspected leak was. The pressure of the steam blasting out of the pinhole would cut the broomstick off if there was a leak there.

[garou]

Re: Boiling Water

 

Very hot liquids (ie, boiling oil, water, lead) would also need to have Uncontrolled to simulate the duration fo the effect. Hot liquids do damage not just from the initial splash, but also from the continued contact. Perhaps an initial hit of 3d6 ED with Uncontrolled and give it enough END to act for 3-5 phases.

 

Steam is much worse than boiling water - steam has at least the same temperature as boiling water, but has also absorbed all the energy needed to become vapor.

 

And yeah, I too have heard about using broomsticks to check for leaks. You could use your fingers, but only if you weren't concerned about keeping them.

[gojira]

Re: Boiling Water

 

Ditto on the broomstick thing. It's for steam under preasure, which has been raised to an even higher temperature than boiling water, in addition to the latent heat. Steam has a lot more heat that boiling water. Steam is invisible too. That stuff above a boiling pot of water is mostly vapor, not truely steam.

 

I'd go with 1d6+1 KA for partial immersion, and 2d6 KA for total immersion, to keep in inline with boiling oil and steam. No, a lot of supers won't be much affected by this, but it's plenty deadly for the average person.

[Ndreare]

Re: Boiling Water

 

Well Light Crude Oils Boil at around 650 F while water boils at around 212 F (adjust both for environmental pressure) Steam however would be much nicer to get burnt by. 600 pound steam (that is steam heated and inside of a pressure vessel) averages around 375-425 F. But when you get burnt by steam since it is a gas it will loose its energy faster to the ambient air around it and there will be a higher resistivety (sp?) between your flesh and the gas, while a liquid like water would be lower resistivety (sp?). Most gasses will expand and ‘cool’ so unless your entire environment is HOT the steam will cool and expand when mixed with air. This is the same auto-refrigerant effect we get any time air expands (imagine propane freezing as you push it through pipes)

 

 

Basically imagine it like this. your oven heated to 350 F and you open the door, the air hits you and you are all good, little discomfort. Now take some water boiling on the stove at 212 F (1 atmosphere) and you will be screaming in pain. The reason is the liquid will conduct the heat better than the gas.

 

 

(In case you care about my precedence. I am familiar with these number cause I work in Inspection Planning for a large oil refinery. One thing to consider though is that while Crude Oil and heavy hydrocarbons can boil at as high as 950 F light end oils like Methane will boil below freezing so your oil may vary. Medium oils like Octane (C8 what most call gas) boil as low as 350. Now most of the lighter end oils (Kerosene and less) can just auto-ignite before you get them to boil and that would be bad.)

[Vondy]

Re: Boiling Water

 

*poof*

[Dust Raven]

Re: Boiling Water

 

I've always treated boiling water as a Diluted, Weak chemical if splashed onto a target (damage only last during the Segment it's splashed). If completely doused, I use the Diluted, Strong (also only lasting on the Segment doused). For complete submersion, it's the same as being doused, but lasts every Segment, plus drowning.

[Citizen Keen]

Re: Boiling Water

 

It's also my understanding that if the water is significant (so not just a few drops, but not necessarily full immersion), that the damage will continue even after the water is removed from the body, due to continued damage from the heat. In game terms, perhaps an extra phase or two of extra half-damage.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Boiling Water

 

It's also my understanding that if the water is significant (so not just a few drops' date=' but not necessarily full immersion), that the damage will continue even after the water is removed from the body, due to continued damage from the heat. In game terms, perhaps an extra phase or two of extra half-damage.[/quote']

 

I don't know about that, I'm only been splashed with a few ounces of boiling water. I will say that when I have been burned by anything, the damage is instant. The wounds may take a while to appear (those nasty blisters, ick!), but the damage I'd consider instant.

[Starwolf]

Re: Boiling Water

 

It also depends on how the boiling water is applied. A splash or fall/drop in boiling water I agree would be instant, but if you placed a person in cool water and then slowly raise the temperature, they would slowly cook to death and not even feel it until the damage had been done.

[gojira]

Re: Boiling Water

 

Basically imagine it like this. your oven heated to 350 F and you open the door' date=' the air hits you and you are all good, little discomfort. Now take some water boiling on the stove at 212 F (1 atmosphere) and you will be screaming in pain. The reason is the liquid will conduct the heat better than the gas.[/quote']

 

Minor quibbles: I think boiling oil in the book refers to basically lard. Boiling animal fats, that is; what you'd get with a mostly medieval technology dumping boiling oil on you. It's solid at room temperature, most hydrocarbons aren't. I'm not sure what this does to the heat absorbtion but oil is sticky and cooks fast. Very nasty to get splashed on you.

 

Steam is a lot different than air. Steam condenses when it hits you and it loses it's heat. That means it delivers a lot more heat to it's target (all of the heat from raising it's temperature to 350 F or so, plus the latent heat which is pretty sizable) than just hot air wafting over you. Big big difference here.

 

You can't make the end of a broomstick disappear by waving it in front of a hot open oven. But that's exactly what happens (so I'm told) when you wave a broomstick in front of a steam leak: about one inch diameter wood is instantly vaporized. Bad bad juju.

[Lamrok]

Re: Boiling Water

 

You can't make the end of a broomstick disappear by waving it in front of a hot open oven. But that's exactly what happens (so I'm told) when you wave a broomstick in front of a steam leak: about one inch diameter wood is instantly vaporized. Bad bad juju.

 

I've been wondering about the broomstick story while reading this thread. I poked around and found this discussion http://www.usscochrane.com/ddg14/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=55 which answers a lot of my questions.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Boiling Water

 

I think it depends on how the boiling water is applied. It could be a NND/AVLD/Penetrating/etc. attack, but I'd be inclined to make it a simple RKA (Resistant ED is going to tend to stop it, but normals walking around with no armor will have a bad day). The more DCs, the more likely it is to, "seep underneath," (AKA surpass the defense of) armor and such, but it is also going to do more damage against someone without Resistant defenses who is hit.

 

Just make it more dice for more water. Give it a Limitation if you want people who are--for example--completely covered in some fashion to be immune. Above all else, use common sense (especially if this is a function of environment and setting, rather than a purchased Power).