How to build a couple powers.

[stan da ork]

1. A powered armor suit that is bigger than a normal person, and so effectively has "Inherent, Always On" Growth. Here are my ideas for how to do this: buy Growth with 0 END, Persistent, Inherent, Always On, OIHID (probably valuing Always On as -0 in this case, since it isn't really limiting); OR buy the size package from the book, putting "OIHID" on it, and reduce/drop the Physical Limitation, since the character can always get out of the armor and effectively remove the disadvantage; OR just do it as a Multiform, buying the size package in the big form. What do you think? Which of these ways feels right, or do you have a better way to buid this?

 

2. A darkness cage. Basically a Darkness field that people can't just walk in and out of. My best idea for this is to buy the Darkness as normal, then buy a linked Force Wall with a length that will encircle the Darkness field and a height of the Darkness field's diameter. Then just say that the Force Wall forms a complete sphere around the Darkness field, since Force Walls can englobe targets. Does this sound decent, or is there a better way to do this that I'm missing?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How to build a couple powers.

 

1. A powered armor suit that is bigger than a normal person' date=' and so effectively has "Inherent, Always On" Growth. Here are my ideas for how to do this: buy Growth with 0 END, Persistent, Inherent, Always On, OIHID (probably valuing Always On as -0 in this case, since it isn't really limiting); OR buy the size package from the book, putting "OIHID" on it, and reduce/drop the Physical Limitation, since the character can always get out of the armor and effectively remove the disadvantage; OR just do it as a Multiform, buying the size package in the big form. What do you think? Which of these ways feels right, or do you have a better way to buid this?[/quote']

 

I'd have to look at the big picture, being how the armor is defined overall. A Multiform (with limitations to reflect the requirements for "changing forms") woud be workable, and provide for a variety of armor configurations by purchasing additional suits. If it's just going to be one suit, I don't think that's the most efficient way to go, since the suit should only add things, not take them away (ie the guy inside still has all the same skills and weaknesses).

 

Unless I were allowing "Growth Always on" for unusually large characters in any case, I doubt I would allow it for this one special exception. I suppose he could buy Persistent growth through the armor, and a physical limitation that he can't shut it off without removing the armor. However, buying the suite of "extra-large" abilities, and taking a Size nphys lim with frequency reduced for the fact that he can, if necessary, remove the Armor would be just as workable, and not require "growth-always on".

 

Another approach? Buy the Growth, Persistent, Extra Time to Activate or Deactivate, and Link all other powers in the suit to it. Sounds to good to be true? I don't think so, since the Linked limitation would be -1/4 (for linking to a constant power), so you'd just get this instead of OIHID, in my little universe.

 

2. A darkness cage. Basically a Darkness field that people can't just walk in and out of. My best idea for this is to buy the Darkness as normal' date=' then buy a linked Force Wall with a length that will encircle the Darkness field and a height of the Darkness field's diameter. Then just say that the Force Wall forms a complete sphere around the Darkness field, since Force Walls can englobe targets. Does this sound decent, or is there a better way to do this that I'm missing?[/quote']

 

I think your approach works fine.

[Super Squirrel]

Re: How to build a couple powers.

 

1. A powered armor suit that is bigger than a normal person, and so effectively has "Inherent, Always On" Growth. Here are my ideas for how to do this: buy Growth with 0 END, Persistent, Inherent, Always On, OIHID (probably valuing Always On as -0 in this case, since it isn't really limiting); OR buy the size package from the book, putting "OIHID" on it, and reduce/drop the Physical Limitation, since the character can always get out of the armor and effectively remove the disadvantage; OR just do it as a Multiform, buying the size package in the big form. What do you think? Which of these ways feels right, or do you have a better way to buid this?

 

2. A darkness cage. Basically a Darkness field that people can't just walk in and out of. My best idea for this is to buy the Darkness as normal, then buy a linked Force Wall with a length that will encircle the Darkness field and a height of the Darkness field's diameter. Then just say that the Force Wall forms a complete sphere around the Darkness field, since Force Walls can englobe targets. Does this sound decent, or is there a better way to do this that I'm missing?

 

Don't make number 1 more complicated than it needs to be. It would simple be Growth, Inherent, OIHID, IIF and with Physical Limitation: Size but as something that isn't always limiting. You don't need Always On on that because you can climb out of the armor.

 

Number 2 is exactly right. It would be a compound power Darkness / Forcewall.

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: How to build a couple powers.

 

1. I like using the size templates and then just modify it to reflect that the character can get in and out of the armor,

 

2. Right on.

[prestidigitator]

Re: How to build a couple powers.

 

1. I'll just state that I don't like the Physical Limitations for size at all. The Persistant -2 DCV you suffer for being large is worth a heck of a lot more than 5 points, and that's only one part of the disadvantages. I'd probably go with a Side Effect on the advantageous Powers myself.
    
   
2. Entangle has an Adder that allows you to block Sense Groups (and maybe individual senses; I can't remember), so if you're okay with simple lack of light you could go with an Entangle that Can Only Form Barriers and blocks the Sight Group (with the SFX that light is not let through at all). I don't have my book on me, but there might be a similar Adder for Force Wall, and if there isn't, just the Entangle Adder could be used as a basis for the same thing. If you want a true Darkness field that really does block all perception within it, I think your construct is the right way to go.

[zornwil]

Re: How to build a couple powers.

 

I understand your point, Prestidigitator, but beg to differ in that realistically large characters are built to get hit, and in addition beyond a certain negative qualifier to DCV the effect is essentially absolute, i.e., somewhere between -4 and -8, depending on the campaign, the character is surely going to get hit and therefore giving additional points via a Limtiation (which grows proportionately with the power) is unfair as the actual effect essentially is absolute at a certain level, one not far up the sizing chart.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: How to build a couple powers.

 

I understand your point' date=' Prestidigitator, but beg to differ in that realistically large characters are built to get hit, and in addition beyond a certain negative qualifier to DCV the effect is essentially absolute, i.e., somewhere between -4 and -8, depending on the campaign, the character is surely going to get hit and therefore giving additional points via a Limtiation (which grows proportionately with the power) is unfair as the actual effect essentially is absolute at a certain level, one not far up the sizing chart.[/quote']

 

It's not just a bonus to get hit. It should be more of a reduction in Range Modifier, which doesn't top out (and, theoretically, the DCV penalty shouldn't either).

[stan da ork]

Re: How to build a couple powers.

 

To address the range modifier thing, you could always say the bonus to Perception rolls to see the character is also applied to reduce the range modifier for firing ranged attacks at the character.

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: How to build a couple powers.

 

1. A powered armor suit that is bigger than a normal person' date=' and so effectively has "Inherent, Always On" Growth. Here are my ideas for how to do this: buy Growth with 0 END, Persistent, Inherent, Always On, OIHID (probably valuing Always On as -0 in this case, since it isn't really limiting); OR buy the size package from the book, putting "OIHID" on it, and reduce/drop the Physical Limitation, since the character can always get out of the armor and effectively remove the disadvantage; OR just do it as a Multiform, buying the size package in the big form. What do you think? Which of these ways feels right, or do you have a better way to buid this?[/quote']

 

In almost every roleplaying genre, the canon is this: if the "mecha" is man-sized -- just a suit of powered armor -- build it as an Armor item. If the mecha is larger than man-sized, build it as a vehicle. I suggest building it as a vehicle. You don't have to take my suggestion, of course.

 

I'm a huge Power Armor fan, and I have found that it's best to build man-sized Power Armor as armor, and Mecha-sized Power Armor as a vehicle. Also, generically, any Powered Armor larger than man-sized is referred to as a Mecha for ease of reference.

[Citizen Keen]

Re: How to build a couple powers.

 

Don't make number 1 more complicated than it needs to be. It would simple be Growth' date=' Inherent, OIHID, IIF and with Physical Limitation: Size but as something that isn't always limiting. You don't need Always On on that because you can climb out of the armor.[/quote']

 

Uh... If you can climb out of it, it's also not Inherent, right?

 

-cK

[gojira]

Re: How to build a couple powers.

 

So, the Inherent is there to prevent the armor from being Dispelled while you're in it, right? The "I can climb out" part is handled by the OIHID lim.

 

And I don't want to get into the whole Inherent vs. Dispell debate, just commenting on the build as presented.

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: How to build a couple powers.

 

So, the Inherent is there to prevent the armor from being Dispelled while you're in it, right? The "I can climb out" part is handled by the OIHID lim.

 

And I don't want to get into the whole Inherent vs. Dispell debate, just commenting on the build as presented.

 

"Real Armor" or the like takes care of that.

 

Besides, if SFX, common sense, and dramatic sense dictate that it's a vehicle or armor suit, not a dramatically complicated Power, it shouldn't be subject to Dispel.

[Silbeg]

Re: How to build a couple powers.

 

1. A powered armor suit that is bigger than a normal person' date=' and so effectively has "Inherent, Always On" Growth. Here are my ideas for how to do this: buy Growth with 0 END, Persistent, Inherent, Always On, OIHID (probably valuing Always On as -0 in this case, since it isn't really limiting); OR buy the size package from the book, putting "OIHID" on it, and reduce/drop the Physical Limitation, since the character can always get out of the armor and effectively remove the disadvantage; OR just do it as a Multiform, buying the size package in the big form. What do you think? Which of these ways feels right, or do you have a better way to buid this?[/quote']

 

Assuming that you are making this a simple focus (or OIHID), you could add a side-effect based on its size... the following assumes about 9-12 feet tall (same as 15 points of Growth, right?)

 

Oversized Power Suit, all slots Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (-2 DCV, 800 KG, +2 PER rolls against (large size); -1/2), OIHID (-1/4)

26 1) Armored Hull: Armor (15 PD/15 ED) (45 Active Points)

13 2) Powered Armor: (Total: 27 Active Cost, 13 Real Cost) +15 STR (15 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2) (Real Cost: 10) plus +3 BODY (Real Cost: 6) plus Knockback Resistance -3" (6 Active Points) (Real Cost: 3) 1

9 3) Suit's Power Cell: Endurance Reserve (50 END, 10 REC) (15 Active Points)

 

Note: the END Reserve is there to power all the armor's attachments (not described here).

 

This is how the weapons are (supposedly) made in 5ER (don't have it, so it is all heresay so far)... the change the value based on how much of a penalty...

 

I could see a GM not allowing everything to fall within the side-effects, or reducing the side effect to a -1/4 lim, rather than -1/2 (the latter was because it always affects the character when using the armor).

 

Hope this helps!

[Sean Waters]

Re: How to build a couple powers.

 

Call me old fashioned, but can't you just buy the 'opaque' adders for Force Wall?

[Legendsmiths]

Re: How to build a couple powers.

 

1. Vehicle all the way. The 1:5 point ratio and the ability to have multiple suits without some of the stickiness of Multiform makes it ideal. A size 2 vehicle would be 3.2m tall and weigh 400kg with a -1 DCV penalty. Throw on some armor and weapons and you are set. Plus, when the suit is attacked it damages the armor not the character (although I would allow a -3 OCV targeted attack to hit the pilot, after the armor's DEF of course). Those who play with a lot of vehicles... how would you handle targeting the pilot in this case (much like a motorcycle, only sealed).

 

2. I think you are on the right track. An Opaque force wall might do the trick, and depending on your SFX be actually preferable (certainly cheaper), but this would allow the target to read something while inside the wall (assuming he could generate light).

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How to build a couple powers.

 

It's not just a bonus to get hit. It should be more of a reduction in Range Modifier' date=' which doesn't top out (and, theoretically, the DCV penalty shouldn't either).[/quote']

 

If your DCV is -20, your Head DCV is -12. If one uses hit locations, this is quite damaging.

 

And if your DCV is -20, I can put all my levels into OCV, since I'll never miss you anyway. I can also attack at range from, say, 1 km away and still be confident I'll hit, while you're going "where did THAT come from?"

[ghost-angel]

Re: How to build a couple powers.

 

Size in Fifth Ed. is easy...

 

You just SAY it's big. That's it: I am a 50 Meter Tall Powered Armor Robot.

 

Now... showing the effects of being that size are not quite as cut and dry.

 

I personally take a look at what benefits Growth would have to increase to that size (Knockback Resistance, STR, etc...) and model around that.

 

You're a very large robot so..

Making it stronger than normal is probably a good idea - but not ness. required (I mean, you could be a 45meter Stick with the STR of a gnat in all honest).

Knockback Resistance to reflect trying to push around that kind of Mass.

Stretching "Always On" to reflect extra reach.

 

As for the Size Disads .. I don't like them All that much. What if you're building Nimble Mecha that can dodge well? (take the anime Patlabor for instance, those do Arobics!). Then Physical Limitation: Large Object is fine to reflect it's inability to walk through doors, hide behind objects etc..

If you're building the Big Slow Robot then the Size Disad that involves a negative DCV to reflect the fact that there is just more of you to aim at in general probably works fine.

 

And finally... after all that ... I personally believe what you want to do is purchase a Vehicle to reflect the mech. The Ultimate Vehicle has mech writeups I think. Or maybe it's the other vehicle sourcebook ... you should buy both really. Just in case.

 

Either way, vehicle is the way to go.

[prestidigitator]

Re: How to build a couple powers.

 

I understand your point' date=' Prestidigitator, but beg to differ in that realistically large characters are built to get hit, and in addition beyond a certain negative qualifier to DCV the effect is essentially absolute, i.e., somewhere between -4 and -8, depending on the campaign, the character is surely going to get hit and therefore giving additional points via a Limtiation (which grows proportionately with the power) is unfair as the actual effect essentially is absolute at a certain level, one not far up the sizing chart.[/quote']

I tend to look at it like this: what would I need to do to overcome the disadvantage? If I want to buy a character that is twice normal height but just as hard to hit as someone who is normal height, I will have to buy two 5-point DCV CSLs on top of my Growth-like abilities. I suppose you could say I should just buy off part of the Disadvantage instead, but how much? My character should still have SOME Disadvantage to reflect that he is too big to fit into furniture or some buildings, cannot find armor, etc. This also may not work quite so well when using racial packages or such.

 

Now, as we progress further down the chart, it gets worse. If I have four doublings in size, I get back 10 points, but I'm at -8 DCV, and it is going to cost me 40 points to overcome that and get back up to a good DCV. I'm not necessarily saying that is worth a full 40 points worth of Disadvantages, but I think it is worth more than 10!

 

In my mind, being very large is worth BOTH a Physical Limitation AND Negative CSLs and SLs (Concealment, Shadowing, Stealth) taken as Disadvantages. As Chris does (or similarly, in case I am misinterpreting), I have always used the left-over penalty after reaching 0 DCV as offsets to Range and Concealment Penalties (an extreme example: so I can only see half of him? That half is bigger than a football field!).

[zornwil]

Re: How to build a couple powers.

 

I tend to look at it like this: what would I need to do to overcome the disadvantage? If I want to buy a character that is twice normal height but just as hard to hit as someone who is normal height, I will have to buy two 5-point DCV CSLs on top of my Growth-like abilities. I suppose you could say I should just buy off part of the Disadvantage instead, but how much? My character should still have SOME Disadvantage to reflect that he is too big to fit into furniture or some buildings, cannot find armor, etc. This also may not work quite so well when using racial packages or such.

 

Now, as we progress further down the chart, it gets worse. If I have four doublings in size, I get back 10 points, but I'm at -8 DCV, and it is going to cost me 40 points to overcome that and get back up to a good DCV. I'm not necessarily saying that is worth a full 40 points worth of Disadvantages, but I think it is worth more than 10!

 

In my mind, being very large is worth BOTH a Physical Limitation AND Negative CSLs and SLs (Concealment, Shadowing, Stealth) taken as Disadvantages. As Chris does (or similarly, in case I am misinterpreting), I have always used the left-over penalty after reaching 0 DCV as offsets to Range and Concealment Penalties (an extreme example: so I can only see half of him? That half is bigger than a football field!).

I'm not belittling the issue at all and I think you beg a good question here as to how to best deal with these issues systemically.

 

I do think, pragmatically, if you don't want a CV or other "immediate" disadvantages of size, the only disad you would do is related to the issues you cite and be something from slightly to greatly impairing all the time, with the size otherwise waived as an issue.

[Mister E]

Re: How to build a couple powers.

 

(Issue #1)

I'm pretty sure Inherent and Always On should be thrown right out. As for OIHID and the Focus Limitations, you really should pick one or the other, and not go with both. If you go with the Focus Limitation, I'd choose Obvious/ Inaccessable (OIF). I also wouldn't choose to buy Growth, and would instead just pick up all of the Size Package accessories, that you can find 5er (and other books).

 

In the end, I think I would simply build it as a vehicle. I don't have the book on me, but I think the Ultimate Vehicle might have a good Hit Location chart in it that you can use.

 

Gadgets and Gear also has a great section in it for Power Armor.

 

(Issue #2)

The two powers you want to use, Darkness and FF, work fine for me.