Is Power Girl/Kara Starr the DCUs Gladiator?

[Enforcer84]

Re: Is Power Girl/Kara Starr the DCUs Gladiator?

 

Minor quibble. Prior to Crisis' date=' she was roughly on par with the Earth-2 Superman - who was noticably less "super" than his earth-2 counterpart.[/quote']

Earth-2 Superman was weaker than Earth-2 Superman?

[SvZurich]

Re: Is Power Girl/Kara Starr the DCUs Gladiator?

 

LOL Yes, when sick I am sure he was much less super than himself.

 

Here is just a little background info on the Earth 2 Superman.

 

Earth 2 Superman was the original Golden Age Superman who started off with Superjump and had his powers slowly develope. Earth 2 Clark was the Editor of the Daily Star, married Lois Lane early in their relationship, and kept his powers under a red sun. Gravity fields and later kryptonite were his weaknesses. Yes, he was less powerful by far than Earth 1 (Silver Age) Superman, but usually as powerful as himself (pun related to last post).

 

Earth 2 Superman was not a super scientist, but more like a typical rush in and beat down brick. As Clark, Earth 2 Superman played a coward instead of a klutz. He also only loved Lois, there never was a Lana/Lois/Clark triangle. His sense of responsibility grew slowly, as early on he was a very high handed vigilante.

 

Earth 2 Superman was neato, but he wasn't quite the God Earth 1 Superman was made to be.

 

The current Superman is much weaker than the Earth 2 version. The current Kal El is the weakest version yet, and still the ultimate DC brick.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Is Power Girl/Kara Starr the DCUs Gladiator?

 

LOL Yes, when sick I am sure he was much less super than himself.

 

Here is just a little background info on the Earth 2 Superman.

 

Earth 2 Superman was the original Golden Age Superman who started off with Superjump and had his powers slowly develope. Earth 2 Clark was the Editor of the Daily Star, married Lois Lane early in their relationship, and kept his powers under a red sun. Gravity fields and later kryptonite were his weaknesses. Yes, he was less powerful by far than Earth 1 (Silver Age) Superman, but usually as powerful as himself (pun related to last post).

 

Earth 2 Superman was not a super scientist, but more like a typical rush in and beat down brick. As Clark, Earth 2 Superman played a coward instead of a klutz. He also only loved Lois, there never was a Lana/Lois/Clark triangle. His sense of responsibility grew slowly, as early on he was a very high handed vigilante.

 

Earth 2 Superman was neato, but he wasn't quite the God Earth 1 Superman was made to be.

 

The current Superman is much weaker than the Earth 2 version. The current Kal El is the weakest version yet, and still the ultimate DC brick.

Didn't Earth-2 Supes become the MAN in Crisis? I seem to recall the older gruffer supes being the powerhouse.

[assault]

Re: Is Power Girl/Kara Starr the DCUs Gladiator?

 

Didn't Earth-2 Supes become the MAN in Crisis? I seem to recall the older gruffer supes being the powerhouse.

 

Yes he was. He got the position of honour when it came down to the big beat down on the Anti-Monitor, IIRC.

 

However, DC canon (for what it's worth) at the time suggested that he was less powerful. This is, however, in contradiction to the actual occasions when he and the Earth-1 Superman met, when there was nothing to suggest they were less than equal matches. Then again, Hourman and the Earth-1 Superman went toe to toe during one JLA/JSA crossover I recall, and that is so obviously absurd as to be beyond rationalisation.

 

Ah: the classic Earth-1/Earth-2 Superman smackdown was way back in 1969. JLA #74. It's reprinted in "Crisis on Multiple Earths", Volume 2. (Excuse me while I reread it).

 

Caption: "It begins, then -- the most unique struggle in history -- Superman against Superman!"

 

Next Panel: Superman (Earth-1): (speech) "Hey --! What.. Unngf!" (thought) Superman-Two's as strong as I am!"

 

a couple of frames later:

Superman (Earth-1): (though) "...Unnf! His stomach's hard as mine!..."

 

I think things like "Unnf!", don't you?

 

A couple of pages later:

(caption): "Meanwhile, the two Supermen have battled each other, first to a Standstill -- and then, to a Lie-still!"

 

They take each other out, in other words.

 

Continuity is a moving target. I personally prefer to follow the best stories, and ignore the horseapples that hacks churn out.

 

Then again, I mostly read reprints these days, apart from about three titles I collect to keep my hand in. OK, two of them (Catwoman, Ultimate Fantastic Four) are actually good, while JLA is distinctly patchy. I should collect JSA, but I think I would end up throwing up too much blood.

 

I still don't believe that the current Black Canary is the daughter of the one who showed up in the early JLA/JSA crossovers, whatever "continuity" says.

 

None of this has any relevance to my Champions universe, since no published characters exist in my world except through homages.

 

EDIT: It's very difficult to describe my response to a Superman versus Superman fight. After a glass of (very cheap) wine, all I can think of is: Mate!!!

 

Which is very Australian, in its own way.

[John Desmarais]

Re: Is Power Girl/Kara Starr the DCUs Gladiator?

 

Didn't Earth-2 Supes become the MAN in Crisis? I seem to recall the older gruffer supes being the powerhouse.

 

People fight differently when they aren't concerned about surviving the conflict.

[John Desmarais]

Re: Is Power Girl/Kara Starr the DCUs Gladiator?

 

Earth-2 Superman was weaker than Earth-2 Superman?

 

The canonical explanation: The Earth-2 Superman came to Earth as a baby, while the Earth-1 Superman came to Earth as a toddler. Having spent more actual time on Krypton, the Earth-1 Superman was more adapted to his native environment. Eh!

 

 

The real reason: Like most old comic book characters, Superman became more powerful over time as writers alternated between throwing larger challenges at him and then increasing his powers to cope with those challenges. In Pre-Crisis continuity, the early stories (1938 – 195?) feature the Earth-2 Superman, while the later (195?-Crisis) feature the Earth-1 Superman. Since in the later stories Superman is more powerful, the Earth-1 Superman was rated as being more powerful. The canonical explanation was (after the fact) bolted on to justify this.

Action Comics # 1 (1938), the first comic book in which Superman appeared, claimed only that its hero could "leap 1/8th of a mile; hurdle a twenty-story building... raise tremendous weights... run faster than an express train... and that nothing less than a bursting shell could penetrate his skin!"

By the time his radio show aired, he was "faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, able to leap tall buildings at a single bound!" Shortly thereafter (with the first cartoon series) he could fly. By the end of WWII even battleship guns could not get through Superman's hide.

Then we get to the Silver Age and he gets new powers: X-ray vision, heat vision, super hearing, and so on (a later retcon gave these powers to the Earth-2 Superman as well). And forget about bursting shells, he's sloughing off atomic bomb blasts!

After DC starting publishing Earth-1/Earth-2 crossover stories, the Earth-2 Superman was beefed up to be close in power level to the Earth-2 Superman, but the official line remained that the "modern era" Superman was the more powerful. I vaguely recall an issue of All-Star Comics in the 70s, around issue 64, where Paul Levitz implied that Superman (Earth-2) still lacked true flight (but I may be mis-remembering)

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Is Power Girl/Kara Starr the DCUs Gladiator?

 

The canonical explanation: The Earth-2 Superman came to Earth as a baby' date=' while the Earth-1 Superman came to Earth as a toddler. Having spent more actual time on Krypton, the Earth-1 Superman was more adapted to his native environment. Eh![/quote']

Not quite.

 

The Earth-2 Superman came from a Krypton where everyone had what we would call "superpowers" due to their "genetic superiority" (or whatever the phrase was). Originally, his powers had nothing to do with a yellow sun vs. a red one, or Earth's lower gravity compared to Krypton's very high gravity. It was all a matter of being much further "advanced" as a race, or further "evolved" or whatever phrase they used (it's been a while since I read the stuff).

I vaguely recall an issue of All-Star Comics in the 70s' date=' around issue 64, where Paul Levitz implied that Superman (Earth-2) still lacked true flight (but I may be mis-remembering)[/quote']

You're right about this. I don't know if I'm thinking of the same story, or if a similar event happened in more than 1, but: Superman-2 was flying along -- yes, apparently flying, without dropping down to leap -- when he hits a forcefield of some kind that brings him to a screeching halt. Once his forward momentum was broken, all he could do was fall down to the street. Note that he wasn't stunned, knocked out, or anything like that...it was just that once his "flying momentum" was broken, the only way he could get it back was by touching down and leaping again. It's almost as if he were an aircraft with a certain "stall speed", and if he fell below that speed...he dropped.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Is Power Girl/Kara Starr the DCUs Gladiator?

 

This might be true but I was wiseassingly pointing out that the poster before me was comparing Earth 2 Superman to himself.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Is Power Girl/Kara Starr the DCUs Gladiator?

 

This might be true but I was wiseassingly pointing out that the poster before me was comparing Earth 2 Superman to himself.

Well, yeah, that was obvious, Enforcer84...but did you really expect me to pass up a chance at being pedantic?

[Enforcer84]

Re: Is Power Girl/Kara Starr the DCUs Gladiator?

 

That would be a no.

[Lightray]

So, anyone know if this is the week that the JSA spinoff series that starts by explaining PG's "true" origin is supposed to be out?

[Greg]

Re: Is Power Girl/Kara Starr the DCUs Gladiator?

 

I suppose we're derailed a little, but whereas I don't know anything about PowerGirl I've read pretty much every Superman/boy/Action Comic from 10c to 12c. In the 60s, Superman could pull strings of moons or move the earth while looking like he was standing on his hands. He was definately effected by red suns since there's a fairly famous cover showing him boxing Lex Luthor on a red sun planet. He used to hover all the time so definately wasn't leaping. As well as doing circles around the perimeter of the solar system for part of a charity event. People from Krypton got powers on Earth, but definately didn't have powers on their own planet. There were several what-ifs where Superman ended back up on Krypton for various reasons. There were also issues where Superboy used a machine to help remember his younger life on Krypton. (he has a photographic memory, but exposure to green kryptonite had caused holes)

 

I didn't read any Superman from after mid-60s or so (when my dad stopped collecting) till sometime in the mid-80s when I read the issue where the two concurrent Supermen were revealed. They showed that the new one didn't have invulnerable clothing, couldn't travel in time (which old Superman/Flash did all the time) and couldn't move planets. I've not sure what the other variation of Superman that other people are mentioning unless the 70s completely changed the way he was without any explanation for it.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Is Power Girl/Kara Starr the DCUs Gladiator?

 

I suppose we're derailed a little' date=' but whereas I don't know anything about PowerGirl I've read pretty much every Superman/boy/Action Comic from 10c to 12c. In the 60s, Superman could pull strings of moons or move the earth while looking like he was standing on his hands. He was definately effected by red suns since there's a fairly famous cover showing him boxing Lex Luthor on a red sun planet. He used to hover all the time so definately wasn't leaping. As well as doing circles around the perimeter of the solar system for part of a charity event. People from Krypton got powers on Earth, but definately didn't have powers on their own planet.[/quote']

Yes, but those were all retconned in for the original Superman (later known as the Superman of Earth-2). First they retconned in that the weaker gravity of Earth was the reason for his powers (and they retconned out the notion that people on Krypton had superpowers there) and later added the yellow sun angle.

 

For the original appearances of Superman-2, it was all about being from an advanced, genetically-superior race.

[RobertEdwards]

Re: Is Power Girl/Kara Starr the DCUs Gladiator?

 

So' date=' anyone know if this is the week that the JSA spinoff series that starts by explaining PG's "true" origin is supposed to be out?[/quote']

 

The Search starts today, I believe. JSA Classified #1.

 

The actual origin will take several issues....

[Lightray]

The Search starts today' date=' I believe. JSA Classified #1.[/quote']

Yup. Just got done reading it.

 

Interestingly, Johns brought in all of PGs inconsistent powers & vulnerabilities -- including both the former Kryptonite vulnerability and the natural objects vulnerability. Kind of reminds me of how he fixed Hawkman by encorporating everything into one unified theory of Hawkman.

 

So, at this point in time I think everyones' theories are wrong.

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Is Power Girl/Kara Starr the DCUs Gladiator?

 

Now that is strange...

 

Tell me more.

 

Hawksmoor

[Lightray]

Not much more to tell, really, since this is the first in a series.

 

SPOILERS follow...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Really. SPOILERS. I mean it...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Starts with PG in a spaceship as a baby leaving an exploding planet, landing on Earth thinking she's Kal-el's cousin. Then Dr. Midnight realizes she's not Kryptonian, there's mention of her on-again, off-again vulnerabilities (currently not present). And that Dr. Fate confirmed she wasn't magic.

 

There's discussion of her recent heat-laser eyes, which Dr. Midnight finds are now "normal". Soon enough at home she's manifesting super-hearing, x-ray and telescopic vision.

 

There's a boob joke, then Arion's brother Arn Daanuth shows up, as does the heat-laser vision again. Except it turns out she's apparently imagined (hallucinated, something) the whole thing.

 

There's a final teaser, where some guy says "her history is folding in over itself".

[Dominique]

Re: Is Power Girl/Kara Starr the DCUs Gladiator?

 

Lightray, thanks for the overview. I'm stuck out at sea at the moment, and can't get to the comics I've got reserved on my pull list. How's the overall writing?

[John Desmarais]

Re: Is Power Girl/Kara Starr the DCUs Gladiator?

 

How's the overall writing?

 

Not bad. I generally enjoy Geoff Johns, although he may have bitten off more than any writer can chew with Power Girl's history.

[John Desmarais]

Re: Is Power Girl/Kara Starr the DCUs Gladiator?

 

The Search starts today, I believe. JSA Classified #1.

 

The actual origin will take several issues....

 

Just read #2

 

 

[OddHat]

Re: Is Power Girl/Kara Starr the DCUs Gladiator?

 

I really liked Powergirl, and Supergirl. I liked Earths 1&2, and DC's weird cosmology.

 

So, is her "new" origin shaping up as any good at all?

[freakboy6117]

Re: Is Power Girl/Kara Starr the DCUs Gladiator?

 

just have to say one other thing about jsa classified its non stop fan service not that that is a bad thing but it's like the main question at teh planning meeting was

" how many ways can we get power girl in and out of her cloaths?"

[John Desmarais]

Re: Is Power Girl/Kara Starr the DCUs Gladiator?

 

I really liked Powergirl, and Supergirl. I liked Earths 1&2, and DC's weird cosmology.

 

So, is her "new" origin shaping up as any good at all?

 

So far, it's not shaping up at all. The writer has introduced bits and pieces of all of Power Girl's past origins into the mix, but no real clue yet what the "real" one is going to be. He's trying to lead the reader into believing that it ties back to Crisis on Infinite Earths - so, who knows, maybe she'll still be the Earth-2 cousin of Superman.

[Lightray]

SPOILERS follow...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, last page of the current issue, the Psycho Pirate shows up. He's the one behind the LSH's appearance in this issue, and -- for those familiar with DC trivia -- is one of about two people in DC continuity who remember the original DC continuity as though the Crisis never occurred (Ambush Bug being the other one I can recall).

 

So the Crisis is somehow related to this storyline, although it's not clear whether it relates to PG's origin yet (since that plot hasn't moved forward at all so far).

 

Anyway, it was nice seeing Director Bones show up again; it's been a while. And that ring they found may well mean that the red-herring of the LSH appearance may itself be a red-herring to her origin...

[LoresLost]

Re: Is Power Girl/Kara Starr the DCUs Gladiator?

 

There is something big coming up with Superman's timeline. The reason I say this is about a four months ago in the LSV story in Superman and Batman I beleive the Earth-1 pre-crisis Superman is the one talking with Mentron trying to get the time line fixed...NOT a future verison the current Superman. Reasoning for this is that when the time line repaired itself he did not fade but became a mustaced farmer whos wife Lois called to him "Get in her Man of Tomorrow" He answered back "No one has called me that for years Lois". This character was the man who Earth-1 Superman became after he used Gold K on himself for "killing" Mxyptlk He married His Lois and setted on a farm in Nebraska (This is the Last story before the Superman reboot Curt Swan's Swan song).

 

The missing Wonder Woman in the JSA story line got me thinking that their needs to be a missing Superman story line as well. I think Infinate Crisis is that Story.

 

Edited out Major Grammer errors, Leaving only minor ones I hope.