Phil Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 From Las Vegas superhero team thread: I voted for the Watch / Watchmen... I know that it is an actual comicbook but I was thinking more historical. This got me thinking, what is the situation on comic books for your champions campaign? Watchmen itself directly addresses the issue by suggesting that in an age of superheroes, people dont want to read comic books about them and that their place is taken by pirate comics. The fabulous spoof 'How to be Superhero' goes in the opposite direction and suggests that a good comic book is one way for aspiring superheroes to fund their peculiar activity. The age of celebrity that we are now in, and the public's insatiable demand for information on those in the public eye suggests that this latter view may be closer to the truth than we know. But how do you handle this? Or has it never come up? What a fabulous idea for a DNPC - the artist who illustrates your PC's comic! (Or the Super-speedster who makes a fortune on the side illustrating the comic books of the team's rival supergroup) Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transmetahuman Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 Re: Comic books I thought about starting a thread like this before; thanks for beating me to it. Some random bits to throw in the mix, especially for worlds where metahumans are a recent phenomenon: Did DC and Marvel exist in your world? What did they do once metahumans started appearing? What would happen if some meta started calling himself Superman, or The Flash? What if he was a villain? Do characters whose powers resemble well-known comics characters get compared to them? Do you generally assume that comics like in our world existed, but with different characters, so PCs aren't stuck with the fourth-rate names that haven't been claimed by one of the thousands of characters already published and trademarked in the real world? To answer Phil's questions, I think realistically metas would be celebrities much like professional athletes or WWF-style wrestlers, but I don't like the tone of heroes with Nike contracts, publicists and handlers so it just doesn't happen. In either case, I don't see the comics medium as being involved, more TV, magazines and tabloids. Comics work better with fiction than documentary - you don't see many Magic Johnson comics out there, do you? And there definitely wouldn't be a monthly series. Adventures don't hold to schedules and deadlines. I could see comics going to non-meta series, or making up their own fictional superheroes even though real ones are around. If the world is more iron age, maybe the comics in that world would be more silver/bronze? Or an iron age world where metas license series that are loosely based on themselves but basically fictional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Anomaly Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 Re: Comic books Did DC and Marvel exist in your world? What did they do once metahumans started appearing? Yes, but with the names of them and their characters altered. DC was originally "Detective Comics", so in my Champions world, they're IC from "Investigator Comics." Marvel Comics has become Wonder Comics. Superman became Steel, Batman became Dark Knight, Wonder Woman became Amazon, etc. Close enough for the players to easily recognize, but different enough remind them they aren't playing in our Earth. And as to what they did when metanormals came along...nothing different, really. Just as you can have fictional colleges, sports teams, and athletes in the movies, you have fictional heroes and villains in the comic books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 Re: Comic books And as to what they did when metanormals came along...nothing different' date=' really. Just as you can have fictional colleges, sports teams, and athletes in the movies, you have fictional heroes and villains in the comic books. [/quote'] Exactly. Just because there are real cops and lawyers doesn't make shows like Law & Order less popular. If anything, I think the presence of real supers would make for a much broader market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transmetahuman Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 Re: Comic books Yep. If Marvel/DC/etc. predated the emergence of metas, I'd expect them to just keep making fictional stories, while holding on to their intellectual property rights. Maybe some limited appearances by real life metas (disclaimered as their "alternate universe selves", like some Presidential and celebrity appearances have occurred in real life comics). I just meant that I don't think it would go down like I've seen in some stories, where the comics supposedly document the heroes' real lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korvar Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 Re: Comic books Exactly. Just because there are real cops and lawyers doesn't make shows like Law & Order less popular. If anything' date=' I think the presence of real supers would make for a much broader market.[/quote'] Having said that, "lawyers" and "cops" are generic. It's easy to just make up a few and there's your TV series. Superheroes are celebrities in their own right, though. It would be more like creating a series that revolves around top-level athletes, or supermodels or something. Having said that, there's The West Wing (can't get much more "celebrity" than POTUS), and in the UK there's a Football (soccer) Soap Opera based around a fictional top-level football team. But I don't think it'd be as common as today's cop shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 Re: Comic books Having said that, "lawyers" and "cops" are generic. It's easy to just make up a few and there's your TV series. Superheroes are celebrities in their own right, though. It would be more like creating a series that revolves around top-level athletes, or supermodels or something. Having said that, there's The West Wing (can't get much more "celebrity" than POTUS), and in the UK there's a Football (soccer) Soap Opera based around a fictional top-level football team. But I don't think it'd be as common as today's cop shows. I think that in a world with supers, branching out beyond the standard "action" genre would be easier. Soap Operas based around a superteam would be a natural fit - team members sleeping with each other, evil twins, nefarious plans, etc. And you've got an excuse to use skintight outfits. Science shows trying to explain the powers of real supers - "Tonight on Super Science, we look at Sapphire's light powers!" VH1 including segments on "Top Superheroes of 1983!" and the like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Anomaly Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 Re: Comic books I think that in a world with supers' date=' branching out beyond the standard "action" genre would be easier. Soap Operas based around a superteam would be a natural fit - team members sleeping with each other, evil twins, nefarious plans, etc. And you've got an excuse to use skintight outfits. Science shows trying to explain the powers of real supers - "Tonight on [i']Super Science[/i], we look at Sapphire's light powers!" VH1 including segments on "Top Superheroes of 1983!" and the like. Those are some excellent ideas, Supreme Serpent...mind if I swipe them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 Re: Comic books Those are some excellent ideas' date=' Supreme Serpent...mind if I swipe them? [/quote'] That's what these boards are for, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Anomaly Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 Re: Comic books That's what these boards are for' date=' right? [/quote'] You bet! The rep check's in the mail! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanguard00 Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 Re: Comic books Kinda sorta on topic, the following article might give you some ideas. Note that this is not the original publisher. I used an edited version myself many years back but couldn't find the author even then. Anyway, it's good for ideas: http://jnana.wikinerds.org/index.php/Metahuman#Metas_And_The_Media Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jediklingon Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 Re: Comic books I love this. The article, especially. It reminds me of an issue of "Astro City" where a soap-opera added a superhero to the show (the Crimson Couger, IIRC) in order to be more realistic. It seems to me that in a world filled with mutants and other costumed meta-humans, there would be such characters in those shows, as well as others. These shows could either concentrate almost entirely on the character's "superhumanity" (kind of how "Will and Grace" focuses almost entirely on Will's homosexuality), or it could just be a background note (like the guy on "Spin City" who just happened to be gay). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 Re: Comic books Since there are not actual characters from comic books in my game, DC & Marvel comics do exist, just as here. Superheroes have been known to have their own comics as well. One of my players has a character (Rift) who is from a distant future; Knowing nothing of superhero-ing, he's collected comic books, referring to them as "Manuals". These are his guide on how to behave in our time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted July 19, 2005 Report Share Posted July 19, 2005 Re: Comic books Watchmen itself directly addresses the issue by suggesting that in an age of superheroes' date=' people dont want to read comic books about them and that their place is taken by pirate comics. [/quote'] Gardner Fox told us that superhero comics on Earth-1 were about the real heroes of Earth-2. Barry Allen learned how to be a superhero by reading about the adventures of Jay Garrick. This was shown in Showcase #4. Later on, of course, he met Garrick in person! (Flash #123). It's a difficult choice, isn't it? Two authoritative sources in conflict. Obviously we need to go with the one which is the more fun. Given the amusement value of PCs getting involved in marketing, I would go with superhero comics being published personally. I refuse to comment as to whether or not any supposedly fictitious superheroes actually exist in a parallel universe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketchpad Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 Re: Comic books Since there are not actual characters from comic books in my game, DC & Marvel comics do exist, just as here. Superheroes have been known to have their own comics as well. One of my players has a character (Rift) who is from a distant future; Knowing nothing of superhero-ing, he's collected comic books, referring to them as "Manuals". These are his guide on how to behave in our time. That's a cool concept Blue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 Re: Comic books Champions Universe and Freedom City touch on this. Champions Universe has comics that include a version of the Champions with Seeker and Freedom City has Castle Comics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 Re: Comic books I've never really thought much about this in my campaigns, though my longest running campaign did have the characters contracting their images to a comic book company. I'd go the EC Comics / Manga route. With real Supervillains smashing cities and real Superheroes being killed, comics would cover a wide range of genres. There would still be Superhero comics, but they'd be only one subgenre of many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooligan x Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 Re: Comic books We have superhero comics, superhero tabloids, superhero skin mags, you name it. In a society as celebrity obsessed as ours, real supers would get the Paris Hilton treatment everyday. Oh, and one of my PCs just read an article in Super Tattler that suggests her fiance is running around with heiress London Sheridan. Hopefully there was no video... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted July 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 Re: Comic books We have superhero comics, superhero tabloids, superhero skin mags, you name it. In a society as celebrity obsessed as ours, real supers would get the Paris Hilton treatment everyday. Oh, and one of my PCs just read an article in Super Tattler that suggests her fiance is running around with heiress London Sheridan. Hopefully there was no video... And you can bet that people like Paris Hilton wouldnt get a look in. After all, with those incredibly high END levels and incredible physiques (not to mention the ugly gamer / high COM PC syndrome ), I'm there'll be plenty of scandal without needing to recourse to grainy videos of spoiled socialites. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 Re: Comic books That's a cool concept Blue! Wish I could take credit. Jim, the guy who plays him, uses it as his character's excuse to use the classic heroic jargon. ("Surrender, Evil-doers!") And also to posture and annoy the heck out of the other characters. In other words, I like it too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroGM Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 Re: Comic books Take a look at Todd Nauck's Wildguard universe. Superheroes (and villians) are so meshed with the media it's crazy. Wildguard is a take off of reality shows. Hundreds of heroes show up for tryouts and only a handful are selected to appear on the Wildguard reality show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transmetahuman Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 Re: Comic books Heh. Life imitates art: http://www.tv.com/ who-wants-to-be-a-superhero/show/17992/summary.html and http://www.mtv.com/onair/castingcall/story.jhtml?id=1483868 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBikle Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 Re: Comic books In my old campaign, there were comics based on fictional characters as well as ones based on "real world" superheroes who allowed comics to be written about them. This wasn't unlike how Dell and Gold Key published comics on real world celebrities like Roy Rogers. The stories inside were pretty much for kids. Very 2-dimensional, good vs. evil, no secret id or personality related stuff. Kind of like the Mr. T cartoon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEmerged Posted July 21, 2005 Report Share Posted July 21, 2005 Re: Comic books Interesting that someone mentioned Astro City without mentioning the issue of Astro City that dealt with comics books in that world. I found that one to be closer to the truth -- that they exist, but the writers for the "real" books sometimes problems with how the villains are portrayed. I also agree with the assertion from Watchmen that the other genres would get more attention. Of course, part of that is conceit (I'm from the school of thought that comics need to start looking into other genres if they expect to survive much longer, because video games are taking over the power-fantasy market). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted July 21, 2005 Report Share Posted July 21, 2005 Re: Comic books Anyone mentioned the short run of She-Hulk from last year? In it, Jessica Walters works for a law firm that handles only superpowered cases. In it, they often have to go to "The Long Boxes" to do research. Essentially, comic books are Marvel's documenting of superheroic incidents in their world. Of course I'm sure that bit of continuity humor doesn't carry over to other marvel books, but I still thought it was clever. I miss that series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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