orinmoon Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 Reading the X-men I've noticed that Warren Worthington's charming good looks and attitude towards crime fighting makes him more of an angel. However, Marvel doesn't imply that its characters are god-like. And then again, reading Kingdom Come from DC has made me realise that Hawkman, alongside the future JLA is called one of seven angels. I don't get it! Hawkman is more of an anti-hero, not an angellic hero! Weird, huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tm80401 Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 Re: If Superman represents a god, then winged heroes represent angels? Reading the X-men I've noticed that Warren Worthington's charming good looks and attitude towards crime fighting makes him more of an angel. However' date=' Marvel doesn't imply that its characters are god-like. And then again, reading Kingdom Come from DC has made me realise that Hawkman, alongside the future JLA is called one of seven angels. I don't get it! Hawkman is more of an anti-hero, not an angellic hero! Weird, huh?[/quote'] Actual biblical depictions of angels are more in line with Hawkmans attitude than contemporary beliefs about how angels should act. They were generally pretty militant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroGM Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 Re: If Superman represents a god, then winged heroes represent angels? In some way it's apples and oranges. Kingdom Come was ment to be a relgious piece. And remember, Angel way back when started out as archangel and wasn't the nice guy he is now. It all depends on the writers and how they see the characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 Re: If Superman represents a god, then winged heroes represent angels? If you want to get techincal about Angels in Religion.. more than you ever wanted to know about Angels (in brief) There are 9 Orders of Angels in Judeo/Christian Religions: Angel, Archangel, Principalities, Powers, Virtues, Dominations, Thrones, Cherubim, Seraphim. (from lowest to highest) Angels date back to Zoroastrianism (at least), which is one of the first Religions to center around an actual conflict between Light/Dark or Good/Evil. Angels don't enter into Judaism, in name at least, until the Jewish release of captivity from Babylon (circa 538BC), in the Old Testament they are called Malakhim (Hebrew for Messenger). Only the Orders of Angels and Archangels speak to humans. And in most cases of the Old Testament that's exactly what they are - Messengers, whether of furtune or doom. As a side note - Lucifer is (was) a Seraphim, not an Archangel as depicted in modern context, and took a full third of Heaven's Host with him when he fell. that's it for today.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vitruvian23 Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 Re: If Superman represents a god, then winged heroes represent angels? And remember, Angel way back when started out as archangel and wasn't the nice guy he is now. Um, no. Try again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted August 29, 2005 Report Share Posted August 29, 2005 Re: If Superman represents a god, then winged heroes represent angels? Worthless Worthington III, prior to being invited into the X-Men had already been active as an adventurer. He called himself the "Avenging Angel." Thank you for playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenzil Kim Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 Re: If Superman represents a god, then winged heroes represent angels? Before Angel was Archangel, he was simply Angel: A super hero mutant with wings. That version was in my opinion the coolest before Apocalypse made him morose and gritty. As far as Angel being an actual representation of an ANGEL I don’t see it. The DC have always been my mythic in their approach to story telling. The Justice League could represent a Bullfinchian pantheon by corresponding the core members to archetypical gods. Just having wings doesn’t automatically make you analogous to an angel, just as having super strength doesn’t make you a modern day version of Heracles. Superman has been likened to a modern day sun god because of the mythic proportions of the characters and the mythos that has built up around him and his fellow Justice leaguers. Wings do not make you an angel A hammer doesn’t make you Thor Not drawing feet does not make you Rob Liefeld;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenzil Kim Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 Re: If Superman represents a god, then winged heroes represent angels? BTW, if you’re looking for super heroic roleplaying with a Mythic twist to it take a look at GODSEND Agenda It deals with gods as supers and actually has a supplement that addresses the use of pantheons in super hero games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstone Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 Re: If Superman represents a god, then winged heroes represent angels? For the record, in recent years Warren has undergone secondary mutation (mutant equivelent to a radiation accident). He now has a healing factor and can also heal others with his blood (it doesn't work on everyone, they need to have the same bloodtype as him.) In addition, for a while he was carrying around a Soul Sword (got it from an Ilyana Rasputin from alternate dimension). So yes, various authors have definitly gone for a divine overtones for Archangel. Don't even ask about what they've done to Nightcrawler recently... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Knight Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 Re: If Superman represents a god, then winged heroes represent angels? Let us not forget that in the DC Universe, they actually had true angel characters. in JLA, there was actually a story arc called War in the Heavens and it dealth with warring factions of angels. Also Biblically, Angels were also used by God as his hand on Earth. If somebody needed punishing for their transgressions... guess what... It's angel time!!! The view that angels are all peace and love didn't come around until the New Testement. In the Old Testement, if you saw an angel, it was not always a good thing.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tm80401 Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 Re: If Superman represents a god, then winged heroes represent angels? Let us not forget that in the DC Universe, they actually had true angel characters. in JLA, there was actually a story arc called War in the Heavens and it dealth with warring factions of angels. and Superman, the funky blue electric Superman, not the normal one, laid the smackdown on an angelic general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithcurtis Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 Re: If Superman represents a god, then winged heroes represent angels? Actually a decent case could be made for Superman being a saint, at least pre-Crisis. He fulfills most of the requirements: He has led a virtuous life (duh.) He has performed numerous acts of charity (building things, delivering food and supplies to the needy, squeezing coal into diamonds and then giving them away) He has performed innumerable miracles when god's intervention has been prayed for: "I'm falling from this building! Oh, God, heeeeeeelp!!!! Oh, hi Superman." Technically, these have even occured after his death: Every time he visited the Legion of Superheroes. All that's needed is recognition from the Pope. And who can say no to Superman? Keith "Food for thought" Curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Anomaly Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 Re: If Superman represents a god, then winged heroes represent angels? Actually a decent case could be made for Superman being a saint' date=' at least pre-Crisis.[/quote'] Doggone you, Keith, I have to spread the rep around before I can rep you for this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 Re: If Superman represents a god, then winged heroes represent angels? I've heard Superman compared to Moses, Jesus, and various Sun Gods... like the saint anology as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithcurtis Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 Re: If Superman represents a god, then winged heroes represent angels? Doggone you' date=' Keith, I have to spread the rep around before I can rep you for this! [/quote'] I can wait... Keith ":)" Curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Anomaly Posted August 30, 2005 Report Share Posted August 30, 2005 Re: If Superman represents a god, then winged heroes represent angels? I can wait... Keith ":)" Curtis You're on the list, though it will likely be about a week before I can do it. Try not to do anything rep-worthy in the mean time, okay? Otherwise, I'm going to end up starting next year still owing you rep... ( ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 Re: If Superman represents a god, then winged heroes represent angels? "Angel" means "messenger" so it depends on your outlook. Also, I don't believe angels in the Bible are described as wings; this was added in artwork to the best of my recollection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted August 31, 2005 Report Share Posted August 31, 2005 Re: If Superman represents a god, then winged heroes represent angels? "Angel" means "messenger" so it depends on your outlook. Also' date=' I don't believe angels in the Bible are described as wings; this was added in artwork to the best of my recollection.[/quote'] Cherubim and Seraphim were the only ones I could find reference to with wings: [Ezekial 10] Cherubim make up a living chariot for Yahweh called the Merkabah, God is seen above them with his saphire throne, the Cherubim have four faces and eyes all over and the noise of their wings is said to rival the Voice Of God itself. [isaiah 6:3] Seraphim have six wings, two cover their eyes, two cover their feet and two allow them to fly. I couldn't find any other direct reference to Angels having wings. But I haven't read either Testament cover to cover today either. I don't believe either Angels or Archangels (the two lowest Orders) have wings, these are always the ones who talk to humans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 Re: If Superman represents a god, then winged heroes represent angels? In some way it's apples and oranges. Kingdom Come was ment to be a relgious piece. And remember, Angel way back when started out as archangel and wasn't the nice guy he is now. It all depends on the writers and how they see the characters. Angel actually started out as Angel and only became Archangel sometime after I stopped reading (after Paul Smith left the book, does that show my age?). Originally, Angel was a classic Stan Lee juxtaposition. He was overly concerned with Earthly indulgences. He threw money around like confetti, chased women, and generally indulged himself whenever he felt like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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