Hermit Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 I realize this could go in the HERO system forum, but I'm more curious in the Champions sense since it plays with bigger numbers. Let's say a player decides he thinks it would be neat if his character's DNPC gained some super powers (The better to see her in tight costumes). The DNPC was normal, but viola, 5 points are spent, and now she is "Slightly less Powerful". Assuming the GM agrees, natch. Well, how powerful do you think "slightly less powerful" is? If the PC hero is about 365 , does that mean she can be 350 since that's still less, only slightly so? Or would 250 be more like what they meant, in your opinion? Do any of you have a formula for determining 'slightly less' and what it means ("Take 10% off the PC's total, then minus an additional 5 points off since the PC spent some of his points on buying the disad down and that doesn't affect his 'power'" etc) or do you wing it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 Re: How much is "Slightly less" Powerful in Champions? Mostly I wing it, if I write up the NPC. If the player asks for guidelines to write the character himself, I use the "one step down" pattern. 25 is slightly less than 50, 50 than 100, 100 than 250, etc. If I write the NPC, she has as many point as she needs to do what I want her to do, but will still be played as slightly less powerful than the PC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike W Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 Re: How much is "Slightly less" Powerful in Champions? I think Oddhat is in the same ballpark as me. The "one step down the chart" thing is a good guideline. But especially in a supers game, I base it more on the DCs and such. Characters have guidelines that almost everyone falls into. CVs and DCs generally have a max magnitude difference of 4. So 4 CVs or 4 DCs is the range for almost everyone. Those, "slightly less powerful" will be consistently at the low end of the range for everything or possibly a step below. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 Re: How much is "Slightly less" Powerful in Champions? I realize this could go in the HERO system forum, but I'm more curious in the Champions sense since it plays with bigger numbers. Let's say a player decides he thinks it would be neat if his character's DNPC gained some super powers (The better to see her in tight costumes). The DNPC was normal, but viola, 5 points are spent, and now she is "Slightly less Powerful". Assuming the GM agrees, natch. Well, how powerful do you think "slightly less powerful" is? If the PC hero is about 365 , does that mean she can be 350 since that's still less, only slightly so? Or would 250 be more like what they meant, in your opinion? Do any of you have a formula for determining 'slightly less' and what it means ("Take 10% off the PC's total, then minus an additional 5 points off since the PC spent some of his points on buying the disad down and that doesn't affect his 'power'" etc) or do you wing it? You would be slightly less powerful than me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted September 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 Re: How much is "Slightly less" Powerful in Champions? You would be slightly less powerful than me. Your Rep envy is showing *loftily* I've read Freud, I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted September 15, 2005 Report Share Posted September 15, 2005 Re: How much is "Slightly less" Powerful in Champions? Freud was a fraud. Spent our entire class hitting on my mom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted December 18, 2005 Report Share Posted December 18, 2005 Re: How much is "Slightly less" Powerful in Champions? For 365, I would tend to go with 200-250. But nothing hard and fast, no formula. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haerandir Posted December 18, 2005 Report Share Posted December 18, 2005 Re: How much is "Slightly less" Powerful in Champions? I'd have to go with: more than 'none' and less than a 'lot'. I.e: I just ballpark it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted December 18, 2005 Report Share Posted December 18, 2005 Re: How much is "Slightly less" Powerful in Champions? In comparison to myself, I usually assign power levels based on height. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCMaenza Posted December 18, 2005 Report Share Posted December 18, 2005 Re: How much is "Slightly less" Powerful in Champions? I kind of agree with Oddhat too. A step down on the scale would work (like half of that of the PC). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Anomaly Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 Re: How much is "Slightly less" Powerful in Champions? For 'slighty less' I use '75% of the PC's total cost' as a starting guideline to build the DNPC, and adjust cost from that as necessary or appropriate...usually down, as it happens... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Frisbee Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 Re: How much is "Slightly less" Powerful in Champions? So "slightly less powerful = low-powered superhero" (200 + 150 steps down to 100 + 100) in a 350-point game? I suppose if the person wasn't a super it would work. Personally, a DNPC who isn't a follower should probably be, at most, a Heroic Normal (75 + 75) IMHO, otherwise you get too many supers in the campaign. I miss the days when I started playing at 100 + 100 level. Things (including the rules) were a lot simpler then. Matt "Still-trying-to-put-a-lid-on-supers-inflation" Frisbee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 Re: How much is "Slightly less" Powerful in Champions? So "slightly less powerful = low-powered superhero" (200 + 150 steps down to 100 + 100) in a 350-point game? I suppose if the person wasn't a super it would work. Personally, a DNPC who isn't a follower should probably be, at most, a Heroic Normal (75 + 75) IMHO, otherwise you get too many supers in the campaign. I miss the days when I started playing at 100 + 100 level. Things (including the rules) were a lot simpler then. Matt "Still-trying-to-put-a-lid-on-supers-inflation" Frisbee One of my old campaign's most memorable DNPCs was a low powered Superhero, this back in the early 1990s. Good character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 Re: How much is "Slightly less" Powerful in Champions? So "slightly less powerful = low-powered superhero" (200 + 150 steps down to 100 + 100) in a 350-point game? I suppose if the person wasn't a super it would work. Personally, a DNPC who isn't a follower should probably be, at most, a Heroic Normal (75 + 75) IMHO, otherwise you get too many supers in the campaign. I miss the days when I started playing at 100 + 100 level. Things (including the rules) were a lot simpler then. Matt "Still-trying-to-put-a-lid-on-supers-inflation" Frisbee Don't you mean Matt "Trying to steal Keith Curtis' schtick" Frisbee? Just kidding! Brings to mind, from the beginning, for superheroic, I played a straight 250 and any Disads you bought were added on top of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 Re: How much is "Slightly less" Powerful in Champions? I miss the days when I started playing at 100 + 100 level. Things (including the rules) were a lot simpler then. Matt "Still-trying-to-put-a-lid-on-supers-inflation" Frisbee I mostly blame the skill explosion and the "pay points for everything" concept that has evolved for blossoming point totals. In the old days, there were twelve things listed as "Skills", and only seven of those would really be considered as "Skills" today - Acrobatics, Climbing, Computer Programming, Detective Work, Disguise, Security Systems and Stealth. That's it. (The other five were Find Weakness, Luck, Martial Arts [as one lump package], Skill Levels, and Swinging). (From 2nd Ed book). Yeah, they were more expensive base, usually 5pts each instead of most skills now being 3. But you were DONE when you bought that skill. 5 pts, BAM, you're a competent detective. Nowadays you'd get laughed out of the HeroCave unless you had Deduction, Forensics, Concealment, Criminology, KS: Criminology, KS: Local Underworld, Streetwise, SC: Forensics, etc etc etc. And many more things were handled with just GM judgement or an INT roll, instead of trying to decide what kind of penalty a question about Rainbow Brite would be if the character only has "KS: 1980's pop culture" compared to "KS: Children's Animation" or "KS: 1980's Television". And heaven help you if all you have is "KS: TV". " "Gee Bob, I don't see 'AK: Home' anywhere on your sheet, guess you'll have to make a Navigation roll to find the bathroom again. What, you don't have Navigation either? Hoo-boy." Do you know anyone? Don't forget to buy them as contacts! And we walked uphill both ways to the game store for a 30-page supplement! And we liked it that way, dagnabbit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 Re: How much is "Slightly less" Powerful in Champions? Supreme Serpent, that is a supreme rant! I agree with the theme even if not some of the specific details. I'd rep you if I could, but somehow the rep button is linked weirdly right now. Bookmarked to hit you up later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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