Sexual Orientation=Psych Lim?

[Steve]

This question sort of ties into my recently revived thread Sex and the Single Superhuman.

 

We've probably all seen characters built with Psych Lims like "Lecherous" or "Flirtatious" or something else along those lines to show a character with a stronger than normal amount of lust. But have you ever seen a character take a Psych Lim to show a non-hetero sexual orientation? Is it worth a Limitation? Or does this delve into an area of personality that is not worth points, but is more of a background thing?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Sexual Orientation=Psych Lim?

 

I've used Social Limitations in campaigns where it would matter. Otherwise we don't usually consider this a Limitation in our games.

 

Using a Psych Lim brings up all sorts of debatable issues of choice vs not choice and such that really, is best left elsewhere. Using a Social Lim skips that and goes right into the rammifications of dealing with other people and their reactions to it. Which is really the Limitation involved anyway.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Sexual Orientation=Psych Lim?

 

Sexual orientation shouldn't be a psych limit. For one, it doesn't really limit the character (can you think of a game mechanic advantage to being hetero?). At best, it might be a Social Limitation, and only in appropriate settings/eras. Heck, in some cases, it could even by a Distinctive Feature (watch an episode of Will & Grace for an example of someone with, and without the DF, don't worry, it won't turn you gay).

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Sexual Orientation=Psych Lim?

 

Actually, I think it could be a Psych Lim...if the character felt troubled/guilty about having that particular sexual orientation.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Sexual Orientation=Psych Lim?

 

Actually' date=' I think it [i']could[/i] be a Psych Lim...if the character felt troubled/guilty about having that particular sexual orientation.

Possibly. A more appropriate Psych Lim would be along the lines of "unwilling to accept sexual orientation." and will thusly place themselves in relationships that they aren't happy with, cause grief for both sides and they would only do to be "Socially Acceptable"

 

I have a feelng a Social Lim is still a better fit though, especially if it's got "Others unware of PCs Sexual Orientation." ... like "Unaware of Adventuring ID."

[nexus]

Re: Sexual Orientation=Psych Lim?

 

I would go for Social Limitation with is value being highly dependent on the culture/era the game was set in. Now issues with your orientation could lead to all sort of Psychological limitations.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Sexual Orientation=Psych Lim?

 

Possibly. A more appropriate Psych Lim would be along the lines of "unwilling to accept sexual orientation." and will thusly place themselves in relationships that they aren't happy with, cause grief for both sides and they would only do to be "Socially Acceptable"

 

I have a feelng a Social Lim is still a better fit though, especially if it's got "Others unware of PCs Sexual Orientation." ... like "Unaware of Adventuring ID."

Mmmm...I think you're right. The sexual orientation itself isn't the Psych Lim, but the character's reaction to it would be.

 

If the reaction was a negative one, I mean.

[OddHat]

Re: Sexual Orientation=Psych Lim?

 

Only if it will actually cause the player to make significantly different role-playing choices, or otherwise be an issue frequently in play. Even then, a Social Limit may be a better fit. If Jack Hero is gay, but he's in a committed relationhip with Captain Justice in 2005 and both of them are out, I'd say it's not worth any points. If Jack and the Captain are adventuring in the 1950s, it's a serious social limit. Being in the closet is probably worth points as a social limit in any time period, if it will affect the way the character is treated in the game (see Tom Cruise).

 

If Jack Hero is a major gay, lesbian and transgender rights activist, a couple of minor Watched and Hunteds probably make sense, and/or a psych limit like "Lectures Constantly" if you really want to go over the top.

 

A character might like gymnast girls and martial artists, but he or she won't be getting points for it in my campaign unless it seems likely to come up in play.

[keithcurtis]

Re: Sexual Orientation=Psych Lim?

 

I think it would be a Social Limitation. Most Social Lims are dependant on culture. It would be very minor in a modern America-based campaign compared to say, one based in 1938 Germany. Might not be worth anything in a Classical Greek or Roman campaign.

 

Keith "context is important" Curtis

[ghost-angel]

Re: Sexual Orientation=Psych Lim?

 

I would go for Social Limitation with is value being highly dependent on the culture/era the game was set in. Now issues with your orientation could lead to all sort of Psychological limitations.

I think this is the best reaction .. compensating one way or the other can lead to all sorts of Psych Lims on the part of someone like this.

 

Flamboyant comes to mind as a Psych Lim for someone who feels he need to "flaunt it" as it were.

 

Going the other direction of denial could lead to Depression, Insecurity, and other things revolving around a characters apparent self loathing and/or denial.

 

Though in my experience most gay people I know have neither Social or Psych Lims of any nature and are simply People. And this is, and should, be the baseline.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Sexual Orientation=Psych Lim?

 

Not to get on a soapbox here or nothing, but there are large number of people that believe that homosexuality is not a mental condition, but a physical one. A person simply is or is not gay, and no amount of therapy or mental "repair" will change that (though anyone could be brainwashed or hypnotized into acting like anything, but that's hardly therapy). Thus to give someone a Psych limit for being gay would be like giving someone a psych limit for being a woman (or a man). It just doesn't make sense. Granted, this is just a theory, but personally I can't imagine any of the gay people I know being anything other than gay (actually, for most of them, if they suddenly turned straight, I'd think something was wrong with them).

[Super Squirrel]

Re: Sexual Orientation=Psych Lim?

 

This isn't about whether it is a mental condition or not. This is about whether it is a disadvantage. I think as a Psych Limitation, it isn't really something worth points. That said, I think Homophobic and Hetrophobic are good disadvantages. Not worth many points, but certainly worth points.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Sexual Orientation=Psych Lim?

 

Not to get on a soapbox here or nothing' date=' but there are large number of people that believe that homosexuality is not a mental condition, but a physical one. A person simply is or is not gay, and no amount of therapy or mental "repair" will change that (though anyone could be brainwashed or hypnotized into acting like anything, but that's hardly therapy). Thus to give someone a Psych limit for being gay would be like giving someone a psych limit for being a woman (or a man). It just doesn't make sense. Granted, this is just a theory, but personally I can't imagine any of the gay people I know being anything other than gay (actually, for most of them, if they suddenly turned straight, I'd think something was wrong with them).[/quote']

I agree completely ... however I will say that how one acts, and how one thinks, may have a lot to do with their sexual orientation thus creating, as Nexus pointed out, Subsequent Psych Lims based on the fact that they are or are not gay.

 

Your statement is also why, in my first post, I stated avoiding a Psych Lim also avoids the "Choice" vs "Not Choice" debate that comes long with the is it Psychological or Physical issue.

 

Either way, in appropriate Game Settings there can be rammifications of being of certain orientations.

[Steve]

Re: Sexual Orientation=Psych Lim?

 

I agree completely ... however I will say that how one acts' date=' and how one thinks, may have a lot to do with their sexual orientation thus creating, as Nexus pointed out, Subsequent Psych Lims based on the fact that they are or are not gay.[/quote']

 

I guess I asked the question poorly. My original example was a character who had "Lecherous", but that can work regardless of a character's sexual orientation. So confidence or embarasment would be how you could present how the character feels about their orientation, but the orientation itself is not a Disad. Then there could be Social Limitations that also apply, like Harmful Secret where there is prejudice.

 

Have I understood correctly?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Sexual Orientation=Psych Lim?

 

I guess I asked the question poorly. My original example was a character who had "Lecherous", but that can work regardless of a character's sexual orientation. So confidence or embarasment would be how you could present how the character feels about their orientation, but the orientation itself is not a Disad. Then there could be Social Limitations that also apply, like Harmful Secret where there is prejudice.

 

Have I understood correctly?

Yep. You got it.

[Roland]

Re: Sexual Orientation=Psych Lim?

 

If the character is in the closet, it would seem to be a limitation similar to Secret ID. But one could be in the closet with respect to any number of things, not just sexuality.

[McCoy]

Re: Sexual Orientation=Psych Lim?

 

If the character is in the closet' date=' it would seem to be a limitation similar to Secret ID. But one could be in the closet with respect to any number of things, not just sexuality.[/quote']

As an openly Gay man, I think social limitation or dinstinctive feature is the way to go on this.

 

But also in 21st century America it isn't worth a lot of points.

 

I probably would Max it out to 10 points for openly Gay, 15 for being in the closet. Like public ID and Secret ID.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Sexual Orientation=Psych Lim?

 

Thinking about it, I think I have to switch my opinion and agree with everyone who said it should be a Social Lim, and not a Psych Lim. And I also think McCoy summed it up best, with the best comparison.

[McCoy]

Re: Sexual Orientation=Psych Lim?

 

Thinking about it' date=' I think I have to switch my opinion and agree with everyone who said it should be a Social Lim, and not a Psych Lim. And I also think McCoy summed it up best, with the best comparison. [/quote']

Thank you!

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Sexual Orientation=Psych Lim?

 

Thank you!

You're welcome. Your "Public ID/Secret ID" comparison just suddenly "clicked" for me.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Sexual Orientation=Psych Lim?

 

As an openly Gay man, I think social limitation or dinstinctive feature is the way to go on this.

 

But also in 21st century America it isn't worth a lot of points.

 

I probably would Max it out to 10 points for openly Gay, 15 for being in the closet. Like public ID and Secret ID.

It's probably not worth much more than 5 points as a Disad in 21st century America, but in other places and times it might be an entirely different issue (such as in parts of the Middle East, where homosexuality is seen as a crime punishable with death by stoning). Under circumstances like that, it would certainly be worth as much as a Secret ID.

[The Souljourner]

Re: Sexual Orientation=Psych Lim?

 

As others have said, it's more of a social disadvantage, and then very dependant on the culture. In modern America, I definitely wouldn't make it the same as public ID / secret ID.. that's a much more important secret and has much more serious ramifications if it gets out. Sure, there may be tabloid articles if it gets out that Captain Justice is gay, but if his secret ID gets out, his family could be held hostage or killed.

 

I'd make it 0/0 (out/not) points in progessive parts of the country, 5/10 if you're in a conservative part of the country (bible belt, etc).

 

-Nate

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Sexual Orientation=Psych Lim?

 

5/10 if you're in a conservative part of the country (bible belt' date=' etc).[/quote']

Yeah...a part of the country where the phrase "buckle up!" has nothing to do with getting into your car...

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Sexual Orientation=Psych Lim?

 

I think a Social Limitation is definitely the right way to model the restrictions of a minority sexual orientation in general. However, I think ghost-angel had a good point too. While the sexual orientation itself is not a Psych Lim, individual characters might (or, of course, might not) also have Psych Lims related to it. For example, a homosexual person who lives in a culture that holds an exceptionally negative view of homosexuality might (if he has "bought into" that view enough) have both a Social Limitation describing how the world around him reacts to him, and a Psychological Limitation describing guilt or low self-esteem that he feels himself.

 

Or to put it maybe more clearly, if a character's sexual orientation causes society to look down on him, that's a Social Limitation. If the character's psyche, background, belief system, etc. are such that his sexual orientation also causes him to look down on himself, that's a Psychological Limitation.

 

All IMO, of course.

[Blue]

Re: Sexual Orientation=Psych Lim?

 

Don't think even the "lecherous" or "flirtatious" limits have been used in my campaigns. Generally those are more like character traits than limitations.

 

Superman doesn't flirt. I'm not sure someone who does should get points for it.

 

But back to topic, no. The *only* way this is a psych limit in my game is if the population is vastly disproportionate; If you're male and attracted to men, and there are only a couple of you left on earth, but there are loads of women, yeh that would be a problem.