Opinion: EuroStar

[Starlord]

Re: Opinion: EuroStar

 

An interesting twist. And if Mentalla was somehow in on it from the start' date=' that might account for why she didn't use her powers to put the kabosh on things when she could have (Gravitar doesn't even have a single point of Mental Defense, with a combination of Isabella's [i']Mindbar[/i] and a liberal application of Mindwipe she could have told Erica to go jump in the lake--literally).

 

I had wondered that myself. When I'd read that Gravitar had cleaned their clock, the first thing I thought was, "Where was Mentalla?". I suppose Gravitar correctly figured her as the biggest threat and probably took her out first.

[Starlord]

Re: Opinion: EuroStar

 

One relatively obvious way to do this is to have Gravitar kill Fiacho and take his place as Eurostar's new leader (Maybe their initial clash was just Gravitar's way of testing them to see if they were all they were cracked up to be). So the surviving members of Eurostar would in effect become Gravitar's sidekicks.

 

I like this. It would really add some depth to Gravitar's character for her to gain a more 'focused' motivation (she seems kinda without direction right now) and it bumps Eurostar up to easily the most dangerous supervillain team in the world.

[MitchellS]

Re: Opinion: EuroStar

 

I like this. It would really add some depth to Gravitar's character for her to gain a more 'focused' motivation (she seems kinda without direction right now) and it bumps Eurostar up to easily the most dangerous supervillain team in the world.

To me it's more interesting to see a spiteful Gravitar create her own villain group to compete against Eurostar. Gravitar's group becomes the perfect place for Shamrock and a few others people wanted to see join Eurostar. Now you have Eurostorm committing crimes and appearing on scene to foil Eurostar crimes at every outting. You have a chance to add a new villain group to the CU and create real tention at the same time.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Opinion: EuroStar

 

To me it's more interesting to see a spiteful Gravitar create her own villain group to compete against Eurostar. Gravitar's group becomes the perfect place for Shamrock and a few others people wanted to see join Eurostar. Now you have Eurostorm committing crimes and appearing on scene to foil Eurostar crimes at every outting. You have a chance to add a new villain group to the CU and create real tention at the same time.

My only problem with that approach is that it would drop Eurostar to distinctly second-class status as a villain team. Given that Gravitar alone is nearly a match for the current Eurostar; a new team composed of Gravitar backed up by a half dozen other supervillains would make Eurostar look like a bunch of also-rans. (I like having them as the big guns.) Whereas Eurostar with Gravitar added elevates them to a whole new level of dangerous.

[Twilight]

Re: Opinion: EuroStar

 

My only problem with that approach is that it would drop Eurostar to distinctly second-class status as a villain team. Given that Gravitar alone is nearly a match for the current Eurostar; a new team composed of Gravitar backed up by a half dozen other supervillains would make Eurostar look like a bunch of also-rans. (I like having them as the big guns.) Whereas Eurostar with Gravitar added elevates them to a whole new level of dangerous.

 

And it's quite easy to do, now that I think on it. Sure Gravitar got the drop on Mentalla in open combat, even a powerful psi is easy to take out when you control gravity after all, she may not be so lucky if Mentalla gets the drop on her. After all, I'm sure Eurostar has the resources to figure out Gravitar's regular schedule and once that schedule is discovered it would be no problem at all for Mentalla to alter Gravitar's personality untill she was Eurostar's most loyal member.

[assault]

Re: Opinion: EuroStar

 

My only problem with that approach is that it would drop Eurostar to distinctly second-class status as a villain team. Given that Gravitar alone is nearly a match for the current Eurostar; a new team composed of Gravitar backed up by a half dozen other supervillains would make Eurostar look like a bunch of also-rans. (I like having them as the big guns.) Whereas Eurostar with Gravitar added elevates them to a whole new level of dangerous.

 

The thing is that Fiacho likes them being the big guns too, and would take steps to restore them to number one. And the Gravitar would take steps to make her team more powerful... And then Fiacho...

 

I really don't want to think about the teams that could result from a powers race between the two groups. That would be scary.

[MitchellS]

Re: Opinion: EuroStar

 

My only problem with that approach is that it would drop Eurostar to distinctly second-class status as a villain team. Given that Gravitar alone is nearly a match for the current Eurostar; a new team composed of Gravitar backed up by a half dozen other supervillains would make Eurostar look like a bunch of also-rans. (I like having them as the big guns.) Whereas Eurostar with Gravitar added elevates them to a whole new level of dangerous.

While I do understand within the context of the storyline that Gravitar is supposed to be much more powerful than Eurostar I think if someone actually ran that combat they wouldn't find that to be the case. As was already stated above, Mentalla can put a huge hurt on Gravitar all by herself. Honestly, Gravitar can't even resist Fiacho's knockout smoke grenades. Throw in some tactics and Ultrasonique's tech skills and they could easily drop her.

 

6-7 Eurostar against 4-5 Eurostorm is an interesting battle, and an interesting rivalry as well, IMO.

[Chuckg]

Re: Opinion: EuroStar

 

Not hardly. Your scenario gives Gravitar no credit for brains.

 

But, I don't need to do much work here -- in a prior thread, the DM of the 'New Sentinels' campaign did the analysis for us:

 

I sat down one afternoon and ran through a battle with Gravitar vs. Eurostar to see if the fight really could occur they way it was said to occur in official CU continuity - because, frankly, I was skeptical. The results were sobering.

 

Now, mind you, this is set up as a straight-on fight, and there's no reason for Eurostar to do that - and every reason not to. However, there's no way to really know how odd strategies will play out in every circumstance, so for best estimation of relative power, it's the way to go. Actual results in-game may be much different, depending on too many situational factors to compute into this, but the results are one-sided enough to suggest the edge falls by far on Gravitar's side.

 

Gravitar has only a SPD 6 and 25 DEX, but even so, against Eurostar she acts at roughly the same time as Mentalla and before *all* the others (barring surprise, of course). Unless the fight starts with her surprised, she will be encountered Flying, with 54/54 PD/ED (30//30 Resistant). She's not going to be taken out in the first segment of combat with those stats - not by Mentalla, anyhow. Once she gets to act, she can use 50 STR TK, area 11". That will pin most of Eurostar in place. Period. Most of them are out of the fight.. they will never get to take an action in this battle at all, unless they are lucky enough to be close enough to the edge of the TK AoE to dive out of it. She can maintain that pretty much indefinitely given her level of END and REC... long enough for this fight, anyhow.

 

While doing the initial TK attack, she can do one of her other attacks. Things like, you know, 18d6 EBs or NND KAs that do BODY, or a 4d6 RKA. Or simply a 60 STR TK. In later turns, she can maintain the Area TK while doing a 60 STR TK plus any one of her other attacks - both in the same round if she wishes. Meanwhile, most of Eurostar isn't even a threat to her to start with. Fiacho can't even reach her, and if he did, none of his attacks can get through her defenses. Feuermacher can only do a few stun to her if he gets a great roll. Durak won't be able to get to her unless she is played dumber than he is, which would be quite a disservice to her. Scorpia is even more outclassed than Fiacho. Ultrasonique would have to get lucky to do significant damage, while one of her attacks automatically makes him irrelevant - her Tech Destruction attack vs. that Sonar helmet that lets him see. Given he's got a rep, she will *know* about that.

 

The only significant risk Gravitar facs here is Mentalla, and I want to point out that Mentalla's max PD/ED are 24/26, and Gravitar has the same base ECV as she does. With her STUN, she is likely going to take one of Mentalla's hits a lot better than Mentalla can take hers, and if Gravitar hits her with her 60 STR TK, she can do Grab and Control (see Ult MArtist) at range, eliminating Mentalla's LOS - and thus any chance of Mentalla doing crap against her - and then crush her to jelly.

 

A team has one major advantage vs. a single mega-villain, and that advantage is getting a lot more actions. However, the area TK and how few Eurostar people fly means a) Gravitar can eliminate the actions of most of them, and even if she lets them act, most of them - and thus, the attacks they bring to the table - are irrelevant. Fiacho might as well send Scorpia to fetch coffee, as much as she will bring to the fight.

 

Played intelligently, assuming no surprise, the fight is likely to go something like this.

 

Phase 12. Gravitar's DEX is equal to Mentalla's EGO. They have the same SPD. They move at the same time, or they roll off for initiative. If Mentalla goes first and hits, the best chance of Eurostar winning this fight occurs right there. *IF* she can do enough damage with her Ego Attack to stun Gravitar, Gravi is in trouble. The EA is only 7d6, though, and Gravitar has 30 CON. The odds are not in Mentalla's favor. If Mentalla and Gravitar go simultaneously, the same result is likely. If Gravitar gets to go and Mentalla is anywhere in range, Gravitar is going to probably take this. She has a better overall chance of hitting, given levels and DEX disparity, than does Mentalla, and she does vastly more damage. Gravitar probably does a multiple power attack using her TK and one other slot - there is a reason, after all, why her TK was kept separate from her other attacks. She is *built* to facilitate MultPowAttacks. And, though you claim otherwise, there are lots of characters in comics who regularly do multiple-power attacks. Mandarin - another mega-villain, in fact - does them all the time. Even low-on-the-food-chain villains like Equinox can do Multiple Power Attacks.

 

Now, let's be charitable to Mentalla and not have Gravitar use her 18d6 EB. No reason not to really, as she has a 20 REC and fights usually start on Phase 12, but that's metagaming. Let's have her just do her 12d6 EB. On average, that alone will do 42 points - Mentalla eats 18. If she does a little above average, Mentalla (20 CON) is stunned. That won't matter, though... because toss in the 60 STR TK and squeeze for another 42 and she's out for the count.

 

Or Gravitar can use her #7 MP slot and boost her TK to 100 STR and Grab/Squeeze. She does 20d6 and in all likelihood Mentalla is out of the fight with that alone. If Gravitar is mean, rather than squeeze, she'll throw Mentalla at Feuermacher - if she hits, doing 18d6 to each, and making Mentalla eat Feuermacher's KA Damage Shield at the same time - or at Durak, so hell take a bit of damage and probably Knockback, meaning he has to waste a half-phase to even get up next time.

 

If things go like this - and probability says they probably will, more often than not - Mentalla (and possibly Feuermacher) are down for the count in the first segment of the fight. Fiacho and Scorpia can't reach her, Durak might be able to jump up and smack her but is very unlikely to do enough damage to severely hurt her (and he won't be able to do anything other than try a Move By/Through leap, if she hit him), and Ultrasonique and Feuermacher (if he's up) are unlikely to do enough to really register.

 

Post-12. Everyone gets a recovery. In all likelihood Mentalla is still out.

 

Phase 2, next round. Gravitar flies up a half move, out of reach of Durak at this point and does the Area TK. Since Eurostar are not morons, we'll assume they aren't all standing together, so depending on where the fight takes place, she may not be able to get them all.. but again, she doesn't even need to worry about Fiacho and Scorpia at all. Her main targets are Feuermacher (if he's still up) and Ultrasonique. But with that area, she can probably get both Ultrasonique and Feuermacher - and also get Fiacho and Scorpia at the same time, probably. Feuermacher has two choices - negate to resist the TK with his flight, in which case he gets moved but not slammed hard and he loses his next attack, or he takes 10d6 as he slams into the ground. Fiacho has enough in his Escape maneuver to probably break the hold - for what good it does him - but all the others are pinned for the rest of the fight, and that puts US and Feuermacher too far away to be a potential threat to Gravitar, as their attacks aren't that huge in the first place, and they're too far away now to hit often.

 

Durak has equal chance of being Enraged now, so he probably won't flee. More the pity to him. He can't do much, except maybe drag someone out of the TK... but he'll have to go into the TK to do that, and it will effectively reduce his STR to pull anyone out, meaning he's hosed. Or, he can stand around and do nothing, or throw something at Gravitar, likely doing nothing to her.

 

Phase 4. She does Flight Usable As Attack on Durak and sticks him 15" up in the air somewhere where he'll be irrelevant to the fight, and unable to do squat about it, as he has no leverage to use to Leap. Game over for him.

 

From here, it's clean-up. If Mentalla starts to stir, Gravitar NNDs her into la-la land before she can wake enough to activate her defenses. 9d6 NND ends that threat. Or she does a TK Grab/Squoosh - probably pulling it, as Gravitar isn't dumb enough to want Menton coming after her for killing his sister.

[MitchellS]

Re: Opinion: EuroStar

 

Not hardly. Your scenario gives Gravitar no credit for brains.

 

But, I don't need to do much work here -- in a prior thread, the DM of the 'New Sentinels' campaign did the analysis for us:

Who needs brains? Mentalla gets a +20 mind control on her immediately [+30 if she wants to push]. Battle over.

[Chuckg]

Re: Opinion: EuroStar

 

This assumes that Mentalla goes first, which, you know, she often doesn't. Not vs. Gravitar at any rate.

 

But hey, completely ignore the entire post and keep saying whatever you want, you're too important for facts.

 

Edit -- (oh, and PS, even if Mentalla is winning initiative, and even if Mentalla is Pushing, she still only has even odds of making EGO +30. Congrats. Your insta-win scenario requires Mentalla to get two coin flips to both break her way, one after the other. Some basic math shows that that gives her only 1-in-4 odds.)

[MitchellS]

Re: Opinion: EuroStar

 

This assumes that Mentalla goes first, which, you know, she often doesn't. Not vs. Gravitar at any rate.

 

But hey, completely ignore the entire post and keep saying whatever you want, you're too important for facts.

 

Edit -- (oh, and PS, even if Mentalla is winning initiative, and even if Mentalla is Pushing, she still only has even odds of making EGO +30. Congrats. Your insta-win scenario requires Mentalla to get two coin flips to both break her way, one after the other. Some basic math shows that that gives her only 1-in-4 odds.)

No, I'm assuming they both go at the same time. Gravitar decides to attack Mentalla first because she is the only one who can hurt her. Gravitar blasts, Mentalla mind controls [drop your force field!]. Mentalla probably gets plastered but the mind control will stay in effect for the 1 phase, giving everyone a free shot at her. The average roll is 56.

 

And I suggest you be careful with the personal attacks. If you can't debate an issue without attacking someone's character I'll be happy to report you. Then you can have some time off to think about it.

[Chuckg]

Re: Opinion: EuroStar

 

> No, I'm assuming they both go at the same time.

 

So, Eurostar is winning because you're using your own house rules for initiative, and not 5e revised. Gotcha.

 

As far as 'personal attacks' -- I fail to see how it is a personal attack to point out that you were extremely rude in ignoring the vast majority of my entire post, when that is exactly what you actually did.

 

If you think you can barge into a thread, act snippily, entirely ignore the rules of Champions 5e in a rules argument about Champs 5e, and then hide behind the moderator when such behavior predictablys fail to amuse or charm your target audience, go right ahead and try. But until then, watch me not be impressed.

[MitchellS]

Re: Opinion: EuroStar

 

> No, I'm assuming they both go at the same time.

 

So, Eurostar is winning because you're using your own house rules for initiative, and not 5e revised. Gotcha.

No, I'm using the rules which say that if two people have the same action they make a characteristic roll to determines who goes first. I'm just assuming average rolls for both. At the point the rules say the attacks go off simultaneously [page 360 5Er].

[Marcus Impudite]

Re: Opinion: EuroStar

 

Kinda off topic, but did anyone else notice Menton has the Distinctive Features: Mutant disad and Mentalla doesn't? Was this an oversight, or does little sister have some ability to conceal her mutancy that her brother lacks?

 

As for Mentalla vs. Gravitar, I'd say Isabella's best plan of action would have been to use Pushing and her Power Skill to give her some extra dice of Mental Illusions and create the illusion that Takofanes, Dr. Destroyer, or big bro just happened to show up...

[MitchellS]

Re: Opinion: EuroStar

 

Kinda off topic' date=' but did anyone else notice Menton has the Distinctive Features: Mutant disad and Mentalla doesn't? Was this an oversight, or does little sister have some ability to conceal her mutancy that her brother lacks?[/quote']

It's probably just an oversite. It might even be in the errata.

[Twilight]

Re: Opinion: EuroStar

 

It's probably just an oversite. It might even be in the errata.

 

Either that or Sonique built her a device that conceals her mutant nature for her, so that Eurostar is less easily detected. Given Eurostar's scientific knowledge there are any number of ways she could've bought off that particular disad.

[MitchellS]

Re: Opinion: EuroStar

 

If you think you can barge into a thread' date=' act snippily, entirely ignore the rules of Champions 5e in a rules argument about Champs 5e, and then hide behind the moderator when such behavior predictablys fail to amuse or charm your target audience, go right ahead and try. But until then, watch me not be impressed.[/quote']

Barge in? I was posting in this thread before you were. You're the one who "barged in."

[Chuckg]

Re: Opinion: EuroStar

 

So, you're assuming that they both roll exactly the same?

 

One, that's not 'average' dice'. The odds of rolling 11 exactly on 3d6 are 12.5%, or 1 in 8.

 

The odds of *two* people rolling 11 exactly on 3d6, at the same time, are therefore 1 in 64.

 

(This is the best-case scenario. The odds of them rolling a 3 at the same time, for example, are infinitesimal.)

 

I can just taste the inevitable victory for Eurostar here.

 

Not to mention that exactly what happens to Mentalla's Mind Control when she's KO'ed in the process of establishing it? How would you adjudicate that?

 

So far, all of your arguments for why Eurostar rules and Gravitar drools not only require rules nit-picking, they are all vanishingly improbable to actually happen.

[MitchellS]

Re: Opinion: EuroStar

 

So, you're assuming that they both roll exactly the same?

 

One, that's not 'average' dice'. The odds of rolling 11 exactly on 3d6 are 12.5%, or 1 in 8.

 

The odds of *two* people rolling 11 exactly on 3d6, at the same time, are therefore 1 in 64.

 

(This is the best-case scenario. The odds of them rolling a 3 at the same time, for example, are infinitesimal.)

 

I can just taste the inevitable victory for Eurostar here.

 

Not to mention that exactly what happens to Mentalla's Mind Control when she's KO'ed in the process of establishing it? How would you adjudicate that?

 

So far, all of your arguments for why Eurostar rules and Gravitar drools not only require rules nit-picking, they are all vanishingly improbable to actually happen.

The average roll on 3d6 is 11. The both have 14- rolls, they will both make it by 3 on average.

 

The Mind Control goes off, the blast goes off. Gravitar takes 1 phase of effect from the Mind Control. The next phase she gets a breakout roll, which she will most likely make.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Opinion: EuroStar

 

The battle scenario that JeffreyWKramer described seems pretty reasonable. Eurostar would probably try to set up an ambush against Gravitar in revenge, but based on their 5E writeups, IMHO they'd still need some luck (at least a good roll by Mentalla) to successfully pull it off.

 

With 4E Eurostar it might play out rather differently. They had three members (Bora, the Whip and Pantera) with SPD 7, and DEX 30, 33 and 35, respectively, so there's no question of who would act first even in a straightforward fight. Bora had a 12d6 EB with Double Knockback, and Gravitar has no Knockback Resistance, so unless she Braces or succeeds with Missile Deflection she'll go pretty much where Bora wants her... which would probably be toward the Whip and/or Pantera. The Whip had a 12d6 Armor Piercing Strike with his whip (and Gravitar's Defenses aren't Hardened), while Pantera's 4d6 HKA had Find Weakness 14- (and Gravitar has no Lack of Weakness).

 

Oh, and Mentalla in 4E was only SPD 5, but her Mental Powers went up to DC 16 even without Pushing or Haymakering - pretty nasty in an ambush.

[Twilight]

Re: Opinion: EuroStar

 

Only because all your scenarios don't have Eurostar actually using thier brains Chuck. Things might go badly for them if they try and rushing her head on but since when have Eurostar been that stupid?

 

Given the fact that Gravitar is a super powered party girl and the fact that Der Westgote has a large number of criminal contacts, it shouldn't be too difficult for Eurostar to find out where she's partying at any given time. Thus next part she's at Mentalla, from hiding, gives Gravitar the Mind Control command "Keep partying as if there was nothing wrong." This is something Gravitar is inclinded to do anyway and thus should get a bonus for the Mind Control attempt, particularly if Mentalla used her EGO Drain first. At this point it's simple for the rest of Eurostar to come out of hiding [or swoop in in the case of Feurmacher] and blast her with thier most powerful attacks while under the mind control.

 

Fiacho's Micro-Flechette Launcher: 1D6 RKA, AP, Autofire and Penetrating.

 

Feurmacher's Melting Blast: 3d6 RKA

 

Scorpia's Curare Tipped Darts: 4d6 RKA NND

 

Ultrasonique's Sonic Blast: 15D6 EB or his Ultrasonic Blast: 9D6 EB AP

 

All of Eurostar has the Teamwork skill, so such a combined attack isn't too difficult for them to pull off. As you can see, while Gravitar might have the advantage in a straight up fight, Eurostar's sneakiness can take her out.

[Chuckg]

Re: Opinion: EuroStar

 

> Only because all your scenarios don't have Eurostar actually using thier

> brains Chuck.

 

And how exactly am I underrating them?

 

The entire point is that Gravitar can render them unable to act before they even get a turn to act.

 

Furthermore, as she is by far the more mobile one, Gravitar is the one who gets to pick when and if the fight occurs. Eurostar doesn't have Bora anymore... there is no way they can catch up to Gravitar if Gravitar simply decides to leave.

 

So unless you want to start out assuming that Eurostar gets to blindside Gravitar from ambush -- which is called 'stacking the deck in Eurostar's favor' -- you have no argument here.

 

Unless you're spelling 'using Eurostar's brains' as 'handing them one-sided prep time and every possible situational advantage while making Gravitar start out oblivious and blind'.

 

> Things might go badly for them if they try and rushing her head on

> but since when have Eurostar been that stupid?

 

> Given the fact that Gravitar is a super powered party girl and the fact

> that Der Westgote has a large number of criminal contacts, it

> shouldn't be too difficult for Eurostar to find out where she's partying

> at any given time.

 

So, Der Westgote now has significantly better intelligence than, oh, the entirety of UNTIL? Please. If she was that easy to find, Eurostar wouldn't even have gotten there until long after the superhero community had already been and gone. Eurostar is the *least* frequent of her entire Hunted list, after all.

 

Furthermore, Gravitar does *not* have a public ID. She has a secret ID. A secret ID that, as of yet, neither UNTIL nor any other intelligence agency in Europe has penetrated. So, exactly how are Der Westgote's contacts finding her on her day off? They're looking for "Gravitar", not "Erica d'Montressart". (And no, you can't have Mentalla read her mind for it. The one time her and Gravitar ever met in canon, Gravitar smashed her -- and Eurostar -- down before she had the chance.) So, in order to find Gravitar so Mentalla can get at her head, you must first... find Gravitar so Mentalla can get at her head.

 

Hrm.

 

And finally, you make her sound like Paris Hilton with superpowers. Hint -- Gravitar is not *that* easy to find. Neither am I familiar with anything in her writeup that suggests that she's a 'party girl' in the sense you suggest. Gourmet dining, shopping trips, vacations on the Riveria, yes. Going out clubbing and thrashing so hard to the point where she can't even notice one of the foremost supervillain teams on Earth walking up to her? Not likely.

[Chuckg]

Re: Opinion: EuroStar

 

> The average roll on 3d6 is 11. The both have 14- rolls, they will both

> make it by 3 on average.

 

Learn some basic probability math. How often at your table do two people, rolling off for DEX, actually both hit 11 exactly at the same time?

 

Oh, wait, I did the math for you. They have a 1 in 64 chance of both rolling the same # on 3d6, at max.

 

And no, you can't declare Standard Effect on an initiative roll.

 

Add -- your argument is based on the idea that exactly simultaneous actions is the *most* likely result in Champions when, as all of us know, it's actually the *least* likely in play.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Opinion: EuroStar

 

No' date=' I'm assuming they both go at the same time. Gravitar decides to attack Mentalla first because she is the only one who can hurt her. Gravitar blasts, Mentalla mind controls [drop your force field!']. Mentalla probably gets plastered but the mind control will stay in effect for the 1 phase, giving everyone a free shot at her. The average roll is 56.

Sorry, but the average roll for Mentalla's 14d6 Mind Control is 49. Subtract Gravitar's 25 EGO and that's only a +20 level of control. Given that Gravitar has Eurostar as a Hunted and knows what the inevitable result of her defeat would be (immediate death), I'd rule that Gravitar would be "Violently Against" any command to shut down her force field in combat. And if Mentalla misses her attack or just rolls poorly it might not even matter.

 

Regardless it's still pretty clear that, without Mentalla present, Gravitar is quite capable of mopping up the floor with Eurostar. Even with Mentalla present, if Mentalla doesn't get the initiative or blows any of her rolls then she's toast too. Assuming Gravitar has any level of competence at all she would make taking down Mentalla her first priority because Mentalla is the only real threat.

[MitchellS]

Re: Opinion: EuroStar

 

Sorry, but the average roll for Mentalla's 14d6 Mind Control is 49. Subtract Gravitar's 25 EGO and that's only a +20 level of control. Given that Gravitar has Eurostar as a Hunted and knows what the inevitable result of her defeat would be (immediate death), I'd rule that Gravitar would be "Violently Against" any command to shut down her force field in combat. And if Mentalla misses her attack or just rolls poorly it might not even matter.

 

Regardless it's still pretty clear that, without Mentalla present, Gravitar is quite capable of mopping up the floor with Eurostar. Even with Mentalla present, if Mentalla doesn't get the initiative or blows any of her rolls then she's toast too. Assuming Gravitar has any level of competence at all she would make taking down Mentalla her first priority because Mentalla is the only real threat.

I believe you missed the part where I said pushed attack in the other post.