Killing Damage DCs

[dropblack]

On the Damage Class Table (page 403 of the Revised Edition) in the Killing Damage column many of the DCs have two entries, for example DC 2 has 1/2d6, 1d6-1. I can’t tell which entry to use. In the two separate examples (both on page 407) of a knife and a dagger’s damage (weapons of Brak the Barbarian and Chan Hseng) one is listed as doing 1d6-1 while the other is listed as doing 1/2d6. They both have DCs of 2 yet 1d6-1 seems better than 1/2d6.

 

 

Help?

[Dust Raven]

Re: Killing Damage DCs

 

On the Damage Class Table (page 403 of the Revised Edition) in the Killing Damage column many of the DCs have two entries' date=' for example DC 2 has 1/2d6, 1d6-1. I can’t tell which entry to use. In the two separate examples (both on page 407) of a knife and a dagger’s damage (weapons of Brak the Barbarian and Chan Hseng) one is listed as doing 1d6-1 while the other is listed as doing 1/2d6. They both have DCs of 2 yet 1d6-1 seems better than 1/2d6. [/font']

 

 

Help?

 

It's your (or your GM's) call. Either is fine and fair to use. Yes, the 1d6-1 seems better than the 1/2d6. It's also easier to use. No rolling a "half" die.

 

A balancing factor is that the minimum roll on a 1/2d6 is 1, and a 0 on a d6-1. The only exception is if the damage is only 2 DC, where ther mimimum damage for the entire roll is 1.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Killing Damage DCs

 

Essentially it's just to allow you to give weapons in your campaign some variety, to distinguish one from another even if their costs and other mechanical details are the same. The differences between the two methods, while real, are too small to warrant them being given a different cost.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Killing Damage DCs

 

You'd get 1/2d6 in a game I was running, and I'd take 1d6-1 in a game I was playing in

[Sean Waters]

Re: Killing Damage DCs

 

.....sorry that was not much help. Nothing new there.

 

My view is that 1d6-1 is a bit of an abberation and should not be suffered to live. Just isn't a big enough 'step', and given the dynamics of resisting damage, the possibility of higher damage is always far more useful than the burden imposed by occasional lower rolls. Especially when that average is higher too.

 

Go with the 1/2d6.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Killing Damage DCs

 

I'm with Sean on this one.

 

I've dropped the "D6-1" mechanic from my games and where I see it used in an official capacity, I always replace it with "1/2D6". That was one of the first rulings I ever made as a Hero GM, way back in the day and I've stuck with it ever since.

[dropblack]

Re: Killing Damage DCs

 

Thanks for the responses! I appreciate it!

[Edsel]

Re: Killing Damage DCs

 

In the older 4th edition of Hero the costs of 1/2d6 and 1d6-1 were not always identical. Some of the writings I have seen made the cost of the 1d6-1 variation cost 2 points more than the 1/2d6 version.

 

1/2d6 costs 10 points.

1d6-1 costs 12 points.

 

That was not how it was done in the 4th Ed. Rulesbook. I do remember this variation appearing in a number of places though. I don't know if it was a semi-official rule or just a wide-spread house rule.

[Kelcyron]

Re: Killing Damage DCs

 

In the older 4th edition of Hero the costs of 1/2d6 and 1d6-1 were not always identical. Some of the writings I have seen made the cost of the 1d6-1 variation cost 2 points more than the 1/2d6 version.

 

1/2d6 costs 10 points.

1d6-1 costs 12 points.

 

That was not how it was done in the 4th Ed. Rulesbook. I do remember this variation appearing in a number of places though. I don't know if it was a semi-official rule or just a wide-spread house rule.

 

I believe it was that way in 4th edition Dark Champions, but I don't have the book handy to verify that. The 12 base cost seems like it was trying to do 2.5 DC's

 

Kelcyron

[Edsel]

Re: Killing Damage DCs

 

Actually the 2 point difference in cost has carried on to 5th Ed. Dark Champions. It is an optional rule. You can find it on page 95 of Dark Champions. Hero Designer charges the same for 1/2d6 and 1d6-1 with no option for changing the cost. Which makes it a little tough to use the rule when building guns and knives (which is what the DC rule suggests it be used for).

[Gary]

Re: Killing Damage DCs

 

A nice option might be to make the Killing DCs a little more graduated.

 

3 pts = 1 pip

6 pts = 1d2

9 pts = 1d3

12 pts = 1d6-1

15 pts = 1d6

 

Of course you'd have to watch out for the 1 pip RKA with a bazillion advantages on it, but it's kinda the same as with the current system anyway.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Killing Damage DCs

 

Actually the 2 point difference in cost has carried on to 5th Ed. Dark Champions. It is an optional rule. You can find it on page 95 of Dark Champions. Hero Designer charges the same for 1/2d6 and 1d6-1 with no option for changing the cost. Which makes it a little tough to use the rule when building guns and knives (which is what the DC rule suggests it be used for).

For HD use a Custom Adder.

 

For the topic - I like 1/2 D6 because it just seems "cleaner" to me. I'll use D6-1 when I'm feeling all munchkiny and stuff

[Erkenfresh]

Re: Killing Damage DCs

 

Here's the averages:

1/2d6 (max = 3, min = 1): (3 + 1)/2 = 2 average

1d6 - 1 (max = 5, min = 0): (5 + 0)/2 = 2.5 average

 

So, that's why 1d6 - 1 is "better" and it's definitely simpler. Still, in my campaigns, we always go with 1/2d6.

[Mentor]

Re: Killing Damage DCs

 

A nice option might be to make the Killing DCs a little more graduated.

 

3 pts = 1 pip

6 pts = 1d2

9 pts = 1d3

12 pts = 1d6-1

15 pts = 1d6

 

Of course you'd have to watch out for the 1 pip RKA with a bazillion advantages on it, but it's kinda the same as with the current system anyway.

This graduated approach appeals to me. It seems that a PC or weapon designer would like the versatility this approach to killing damage. I need to play around with this. Thanks, Gary.

[Edsel]

Re: Killing Damage DCs

 

Okay, I was bored so I worked this up, for whatever it is worth.

 

Average cost per point of damage using Gary's proposed method

3 pts = 1 pip (Avg. cost 3.0 per point of damage)

6 pts = 1d2 (Avg. cost 4.0 per point of damage)

9 pts = 1d3 (Avg. cost 4.5 per point of damage)

12 pts = 1d6-1 (Avg. cost 4.5 per point of damage)

15 pts = 1d6 (Avg. cost 4.3 per point of damage)

18 pts = 1d6+1 (Avg. cost 4.0 per point of damage)

21 pts = 1d6+2 (Avg. cost 3.8 per point of damage)

24 pts = 1 1/2d6 (Avg. cost 4.4 per point of damage)

27 pts = 2d6-1 (Avg cost 4.5 per point of damage)

30 pts = 2d6 (Avg. cost 4.3 per point of damage)

33 pts = 2d6+1 (Avg. cost 4.1 per point of damage)

36 pts = 2d6+2 (Avg. cost 4.0 per point of damage)

39 pts = 2 1/2d6 (Avg. cost 4.3 per point of damage)

42 pts = 3d6-1 (Avg. cost 4.4 per point of damage)

45 pts = 3d6 (Avg. cost 4.3 per point of damage)

 

Average cost per point of damage using the published Dark Champions method

5 pts = 1 pip (Avg. cost 5 per point of damage)

10 pts = 1/2d6 (Avg. cost 5 per point of damage)

12 pts = 1d6-1 (Avg. cost 4.5 per point of damage)

15 pts = 1d6 (Avg. cost 5 per point of damage)

20 pts = 1d6+1 (Avg. cost 4.4 per point of damage)

25 pts = 1 1/2d6 (Avg. cost 4.5 per point of damage)

27 pts = 2d6-1 (Avg. cost 4.5 per point of damage)

30 pts = 2d6 (Avg. cost 4.3 per point of damage)

35 pts = 2d6+1 (Avg. cost 4.4 per point of damage)

40 pts = 2 1/2d6 (Avg. cost 4.4 per point of damage)

42 pts = 3d6-1 (Avg. cost 4.4 per point of damage)

45 pts = 3d6 (Avg. cost 4.3 per point of damage)

 

Following this trend I can see that KA tend to be slightly more cost effective as they get more powerful. Of course this may change if you take the calculations beyond 3d6. The "bang for the buck" seems to be pretty close for both methods with Gary's method being very slightly cheaper.

 

NOTE: I may have not have Gary's method exactly correct since I only had his proposal up to 1d6 as an example. I had to guess how it would have gone on past that level.

[Susano]

Re: Killing Damage DCs

 

Dark Champions 5th Edition, page 95.

 

Dice=Cost

1 point = 5 points

1/2d6 = 10 points

1d6-1 = 12 points

1d6 = 15 points

1d6+1 = 20 points

1 1/2d6 = 25 points

2d6-1 = 27 points

2d6 = 30 points

 

and so on.