Characterstic Rolls

[nexus]

I was just wondering how often other Hero GMs use flat characteristic rolls in their games? Like a character wants to push themselve to stay awake or perform some task that doesn't nessecarily burn Endurance or Intelligence to remember something?

[CourtFool]

That is rather uncharacteristic

 

I very rarely ask for a Characteristic roll. This may be an error on my part since I do not allow Characteristic rolls for lacking Skills.

 

The most common rolls in my campaign are PER rolls which may qualify as a Characteristic roll, but I do not think of them as such. My games tend to be rather free form and combat light so that may explain the heavy use of perception required.

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: Characterstic Rolls

 

I don't generally allow pushing for anything but STR and EGO. Anything else is just a straight roll, with modifiers for specific character actions or circumstances. Then again, I can't think of an instance right off where you would push any other characteristic; a person is only so smart so your INT can't logically increase, but I would give a bonus if the character took extra time to memorize something. Similarly for a DEX roll, you aren't going to get more adroit, but if you do something carefully (and slowly) you get the standard extra time bonus.

 

Okay, upon reflection, I guess you could push CON or STN (with a successful EGO roll) to resist being stunned or K'Oed in extraordinary (and dramatic) circumstances, but you should still have to burn END for it.

 

_______________________________________________________

"I don't want to stop crime. I just want to fight it." - Tick

[Rapier]

Re: Characterstic Rolls

 

I was just wondering how often other Hero GMs use flat characteristic rolls in their games? Like a character wants to push themselve to stay awake or perform some task that doesn't nessecarily burn Endurance or Intelligence to remember something?

 

Quite often. CHAR Rolls are the default if someone doesn't have a specific skill or if there is a situation where there is no skill (eg trying to walk on ice). PER Rolls happen ALL the time and are probably the most common. After that would probably be DEX, INT and CON.

[zornwil]

Re: Characterstic Rolls

 

Only once in a great while but I always jump at the opportunity when I see it. It's hard to say how often it really comes up. Once a session might be a liberal assessment. Maybe once every other session. Or maybe it is once a session, on average.

[zornwil]

Re: That is rather uncharacteristic

 

I very rarely ask for a Characteristic roll. This may be an error on my part since I do not allow Characteristic rolls for lacking Skills.

 

The most common rolls in my campaign are PER rolls which may qualify as a Characteristic roll, but I do not think of them as such. My games tend to be rather free form and combat light so that may explain the heavy use of perception required.

I don't think of PER rolls as char rolls, either, and like you I don't normally substitute char rolls for skill rolls.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Characterstic Rolls

 

I was just wondering how often other Hero GMs use flat characteristic rolls in their games? Like a character wants to push themselve to stay awake or perform some task that doesn't nessecarily burn Endurance or Intelligence to remember something?

Constantly.

 

Then again, I use "Successful [CHAR] Roll" as the defense for several NNDs.

 

Other than that, I make liberal requests for DEX and EGO Rolls, and the occasional STR roll to lift or move something tricky. I ask for CON Rolls to stay awake and to fight off disease (not the attack kind, but when in situations that might cause a mild disease). I ask for INT Rolls to remember details about past events, people or places. I ask for a COM Roll as a Complimentary Skill for some uses of Interaction Skills. I rarely call for BODY Rolls though.

[Frenchman]

Re: Characterstic Rolls

 

All the time - heres an example from a recent game

Me: If we could just hitch a ride on that giant vulture, we could ride it back to the flying castle!

Theo: I have a grappling hook and 100' of rope! Just use your burst of strength ability and chuck it up there!

GM: Make an INT roll.

Me: *Dice Clatter* I succeed by 4, what do I notice?

GM: That you are absolutly INSANE! What do you do.

Theo: I put away my grappling hook...

[zornwil]

Re: Characterstic Rolls

 

Actually, Dust Raven reminded me, I do call for DEX rolls fairly regularly, because the way I run combat all actions in a segment are considered, give or take, simultaneous. So if you want to try to do something right before someone else, it's NOT automatic per your DEX, it's based on competing DEX rolls, typically.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Characterstic Rolls

 

We use them somewhat regularly. Mostly EGO Rolls (we often joke that in one game it requires an EGO Roll to get out of bed...) and a fair number of DEX Rolls.

 

CON and INT come up about equally - not very often, but enough to make them interesting. Maybe once every 2-3 sessions.

 

PRE, STR, BODY and COM Char rolls are almost never made, in fact I can't remember the last time I made one.

[CourtFool]

Re: Characterstic Rolls

 

Quite often. CHAR Rolls are the default if someone doesn't have a specific skill or if there is a situation where there is no skill (eg trying to walk on ice). PER Rolls happen ALL the time and are probably the most common. After that would probably be DEX' date=' INT and CON.[/quote']

 

Just curious, do your players ever run skill heavy characters?

[Rapier]

Re: Characterstic Rolls

 

Just curious' date=' do your players ever run skill heavy characters?[/quote']

 

All of them are fairly skills heavy. However, there are frequent cases where you might not have just the right skill or there might not be a specific skill that would cover what you are trying to do.

[Gary]

Re: Characterstic Rolls

 

All of them are fairly skills heavy. However' date=' there are frequent cases where you might not have just the right skill or there might not be a specific skill that would cover what you are trying to do.[/quote']

 

 

I think what Courtfool is asking is why anyone would spend 3 pts to get a Char roll with a skill, when they could spend nothing and still get the Char roll with the skill as a default.

 

Unless you assess penalties to the Char roll for not having the skill in question.

[Rapier]

Re: Characterstic Rolls

 

I think what Courtfool is asking is why anyone would spend 3 pts to get a Char roll with a skill, when they could spend nothing and still get the Char roll with the skill as a default.

 

Unless you assess penalties to the Char roll for not having the skill in question.

 

Ah. Yes, there are penalties. If you don't have BreakFall you can still make an attempt at BreakFall...just with some nasty penalties. You won't succeed often but it is definately within the realm of possibilities.

[OddHat]

Re: Characterstic Rolls

 

I sometimes rule that every skill that could reasonably be performed without training is an Everyman skill, with a roll of 6 + CHA/5 or less. That roll can never be better than 11 or less from stats alone. I allow levels with All Skills or Overall Levels to apply, as well as time modifiers, but I add one additional step on the time chart for Everyman skill use. For example, Jack wants to fix his car, using a car repair manual and a fully equipped garage. He has INT 13. I'd allow him a 9- Everyman Mechanic Skill Roll. If it would take a mechanic one hour to fix the problem, it takes Jack 5. He could take a full day to get +1 to that roll, or a week for +2. Exceptional equipment can help as well. Someone who actually knows the skill can take -3 to the roll to divide the time it would take to perform the task by 5, but someone using an Everyman skill can't.

 

Does this encourage munchkinish skill builds, where people buy no skills but tons of overall levels and high stats? Not that I've noticed, but it may be different with other groups.

 

Sometimes all this is more complicated than it's worth, so I say 8- and smeg it.

[Vondy]

Re: Characterstic Rolls

 

I was just wondering how often other Hero GMs use flat characteristic rolls in their games? Like a character wants to push themselve to stay awake or perform some task that doesn't nessecarily burn Endurance or Intelligence to remember something?

 

Rarely, however, when I hand out characters (I'm generally asked to make them based on descriptions), the primary characteristics are generally represented by a descriptive phrase and a stat roll, as opposed to an abstract number and cost.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Characterstic Rolls

 

I use them whenever it is appropriate. If the potential is there for a strong, graceful, durable, intelligent, or willful (etc.) person to be better at something that isnt attached to a particular skill than someone that is less strong, graceful, durable, intelligent, or willful (etc.), as the situation dictates, then it is time for a CHAR roll.

 

I also occasionally use CHAR Roll to handle grey areas or to overcome some arbitrariness or gamisms. For instance, in some cases the environment might cause some damage to a character, but I may not feel like writing up the effect and then going around the table applying it to each affected character. In such a case I may just say "Make a BODY Roll at minus whatever or take a point of BODY damage and 3 STUN". Moves the game along. Similarly simul-DEX can be resolved with an INT Roll, and opposed skill rolls that tie can be decided by an appropriate CHAR Roll if a tie isnt desired.

 

I also use CHAR Rolls for opposed things that the combat rules arent good at covering without more trouble than its worth, like arm-wrestling, stare down contests, public battles of wits to win a crowds approval, and other things that are essentially covered by the rules but which are sometimes disrupting to the running mood / flow of the game to invoke or which would otherwise require me to drop into Combat Time at an inconvenient juncture such as basic showmanship that doesnt necessarily translate into a PRE attack or an interaction Skill use, exert based STR to move things around or to grapple at a low level such as when someone grabs another characters wrist or shoulder out of combat, and things of that nature.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Characterstic Rolls

 

I ask for Characteristic rolls as often as I possibly can without the feeling that it has become annoying or extremely frustrating for the players.

[CourtFool]

Characterstic Rolls & Skill Levels

 

I do not mean to derail, but do those of you who frequently ask for Characteristic rolls allow Overall Skill Levels to apply? Officially, they do, but I have heard grumblings about that before and wondered if people strayed from the official rules on this and their reasoning if they did. Also, would you consider appropriate 5pt levels applying like a +1 w/ all INT skills to apply to a base INT Characteristic roll.

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: Characterstic Rolls & Skill Levels

 

I do not mean to derail' date=' but do those of you who frequently ask for Characteristic rolls allow Overall Skill Levels to apply? Officially, they do, but I have heard grumblings about that before and wondered if people strayed from the official rules on this and their reasoning if they did. Also, would you consider appropriate 5pt levels applying like a +1 w/ all INT skills to apply to a base INT Characteristic roll.[/quote']

 

Yes. I have not found it abusive in my games, and I think it makes the characters more "heroic" being able to make such rolls more often than the average joe. I think part of the grumbling over such a practice is a poorly defined special effects for broad skill levels. But even in cases where it isn't well defined (e.g. calling Overall levels Intuition for a psychic character), I allow cinematic handwaving to suffice (the character is just good!). I mean, how many overall levels do you think James Bond must have with no real justification?

 

Oh, and more to the point of CHA rolls, I allow broad skill levels to apply because I find that the Hero Systems is already biased toward characters with high CHA, so skill levels give the highly skilled normal type of character a slightly better chance at competing with full-fledged paranormals.

 

_________________________________________________________

"I don't want to stop crime. I just want to fight it." - Tick

[zornwil]

Re: Characterstic Rolls & Skill Levels

 

I do not mean to derail' date=' but do those of you who frequently ask for Characteristic rolls allow Overall Skill Levels to apply? Officially, they do, but I have heard grumblings about that before and wondered if people strayed from the official rules on this and their reasoning if they did. Also, would you consider appropriate 5pt levels applying like a +1 w/ all INT skills to apply to a base INT Characteristic roll.[/quote']

Generally speaking, yes to both questions. However, very often since skill checks are in combat, characters usually have levels elsewhere (in terms of talking about applying Overall Levels).

 

On a side note, I apply common sense limits to PER rolls. You can have the greatest INT in the world (and in my game 2 PCs do) but if you physically can't see or hear something, that can't help. Along these lines, I was reviewing the penalties for range, and the rule about how if a PER roll is reduced to 0 or below then no roll can be made, if the GM prefers. I figured out what a 10 INT would reduce to 0 at, and more or less use that as a guideline for the limit of effective distance for PER rolls regardless of INT.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Characterstic Rolls & Skill Levels

 

I do not mean to derail' date=' but do those of you who frequently ask for Characteristic rolls allow Overall Skill Levels to apply? Officially, they do, but I have heard grumblings about that before and wondered if people strayed from the official rules on this and their reasoning if they did. Also, would you consider appropriate 5pt levels applying like a +1 w/ all INT skills to apply to a base INT Characteristic roll.[/quote']

Yes and Yes.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Characterstic Rolls & Skill Levels

 

do those of you who frequently ask for Characteristic rolls allow Overall Skill Levels to apply?

would you consider appropriate 5pt levels applying like a +1 w/ all INT skills to apply to a base INT Characteristic roll.

Sometimes - not in the case of something that clearly has no relation to "skill," such as resisting disease, staying awake, walking on thin ice, etc. I probably would allow it for INT, EGO rolls most of the time, DEX rolls some of the time, CON rolls probably not.

 

And usually.

 

I can't recall ever asking for or making a STR roll, a BODY roll, a PRE roll, or a COM roll.

 

I asked players for a CON roll to see if they could handle the spicy food in one game. I don't see why an overall skill level should apply to that.

[zornwil]

Re: Characterstic Rolls & Skill Levels

 

Oh, that reminds me - I now require BOD rolls from the PC whose body takes damage like the Black Knight from Monty Python and the Holy Grail, as described elsewhere on the boards.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Characterstic Rolls & Skill Levels

 

I do not mean to derail' date=' but do those of you who frequently ask for Characteristic rolls allow Overall Skill Levels to apply? Officially, they do, but I have heard grumblings about that before and wondered if people strayed from the official rules on this and their reasoning if they did. Also, would you consider appropriate 5pt levels applying like a +1 w/ all INT skills to apply to a base INT Characteristic roll.[/quote']

 

I do allow Overall Skills Levels to apply. They do apply to everything afterall. I even allow them to be applied to Everyman Skills (but not Familiarities).

 

As for the 5 point levels, I usually treat the standard +1 with INT Rolls to automatically apply to all INT based Skills. So far, it hasn't been abusive or unbalancing at all. Of course, there hasn't yet been a player character who's bought one.