All-New Iron Age Zoo Crew?

[Chuckg]

Re: All-New Iron Age Zoo Crew?

 

That's what I was referring to. I've read articles saying they've been planting the seeds for the Crisis since two years ago' date=' not that Johns has been officially charged with leading the DCU into a new creative direction.[/quote']

 

John was one of the three big noises on the 2003 'steering committee' that came up with the whole Countdown/Crisis 'new direction' in the first place, so my point stands -- the dude you think will harbinger a change in tone away from this dark crap is one of the dudes who masterminded the *last* change in tone *to* the dark crap, so...

 

I think when the dust settles, things will be more balanced between lighthearted, optomistic storytelling and realism.

 

DC Editorial has been making this same promise repeatedly, over and over again, since about month #3 of IDENTITY CRISIS.

 

And over and over again, said promise has failed to deliver. Instead, it only got darker with every step.

 

I can only be told to 'wait and see!' so many times, and disappointed so many times, before I go 'tell it to the Marines, old comics fans ain't buyin' it.'

[LoresLost]

Re: All-New Iron Age Zoo Crew?

 

Q: Will Captain Carrot get his own OYL book?

 

DD: He doesn’t make it out of Crisis, sorry.

 

from this site and interview with Dan DiDio of DC

 

Also love this Quote:

 

Q: Is Infinite Crisis going to make Batman a non-jerk come OYL?

 

DD: Depends on what you consider a jerk.

[Eyendasky80]

Re: All-New Iron Age Zoo Crew?

 

John was one of the three big noises on the 2003 'steering committee' that came up with the whole Countdown/Crisis 'new direction' in the first place' date=' so my point stands -- the dude you think will harbinger a change in tone away from this dark crap is one of the dudes who masterminded the *last* change in tone *to* the dark crap, so...[/quote']

If by "point stands" you're saying "I'm right" then I have to disagree, because what I was saying was that Geoff Johns was given a new position as creative director less than two years ago. I've provided quotes that confirm it. Now we may have a miscommunication on what exactly I meant when I said that Geoff Johns and Grant Morrison are directing the DCU, but I believe I've clarified well enough now. So my point stands.

 

DC Editorial has been making this same promise repeatedly, over and over again, since about month #3 of IDENTITY CRISIS.

 

And over and over again, said promise has failed to deliver. Instead, it only got darker with every step.

 

I can only be told to 'wait and see!' so many times, and disappointed so many times, before I go 'tell it to the Marines, old comics fans ain't buyin' it.'

Please, if they said it once you'd be saying the same thing. And what do you mean by "old comics fans?" Physically old or length of collecting? I've been collecting for twenty years and I believe that DC is heading in a new direction.

 

Have you ever heard the phrase "It's always darkest before the dawn?"

[Chuckg]

Re: All-New Iron Age Zoo Crew?

 

Please' date=' if they said it once you'd be saying the same thing.[/quote']

 

Making up stuff and then putting it in my mouth is contemptible.

 

(Edit -- for the record, the first time they said it, my reaction was 'God, I hope so.' Granted, that was over a year ago and on another board, so you wouldn't have known about it. Your error lay in assuming rather than asking.

 

The *second* time they said it, I went 'Didn't they promise this already?', and it went downhill from there.)

 

Have you ever heard the phrase "It's always darkest before the dawn?"

 

Yes, often -- usually as a cliche, invoked to try and lighten up a depressing situation that, more often than not, remained largely depressing.

 

"It's only darkest before the dawn" is reassuring if, and only if, you know beyond doubt that the sun will rise the next morning, and at least roughly at what time.

 

Sadly, however, DC Editorial is somewhat less regularly uplifting than the sunrise, in about the same way that a US Senator running for office is somewhat less honest than Captain America.

[BlackSword]

Re: All-New Iron Age Zoo Crew?

 

:stunned: But wait' date=' isn't the whole idea at DC & Marvel that "grim and gruesome is what the public wants"? I'm rather surprised they'd have the sense of humor to mock their own pretense like this. I thought they were taking themselves waaaay too seriously to allow humor in funny-books anymore.[/quote']

As Eydansky stated, I think this is a bit of a broad brush. Its in the last two issues of Titans, you can probably still pick it up. It even goes so far as to mention that Abra Kat Dabra had erased someones memory. Geoff Jones' JSA Black Reign showed the dichotomy between Iron Age and Silver Age, and how it can be easy to slip between the two. He also showed that the Iron Age has been in the DCU for quite a while now. People are complaining about DC being too dark and Infinite Crisis making it darker, I am reminded a bit of a discussion on people having trouble with their players staying Silver Age.

 

I forget who said it, but they basically said if you are going to run a Silver Age setting, you have to ensure that your players have Silver Age opponents and scenarios. You can't set a ground rule that everyone has to have a 20 point CVK and then their first encounter the villain blows up a bus full of nuns.

 

However in the current DCU (well at least until Black Adam opened his can o' whoopash), they had their fictional country Khandaq that was ruled by a despot, practiced in child slavery, routinely slaughtered uprisings, etc. Superman, "meh, its their problem, not mine." How very heroic. The DCU is littered with Iron Age tropes that has been polluting the universe. Some of these are due to poor writing, some due to a good story that perhaps shouldn't be told in the mainstream DCU. In the end though, something has to be done to clean it up. Either take the DCU full into Iron Age, or do a revamp and clean it up.

[Eyendasky80]

Re: All-New Iron Age Zoo Crew?

 

Making up stuff and then putting it in my mouth is contemptible.

Not admitting you may have misinterpreted what I said or (god forbid) misremembered something and instead obfuscating the point by making derisive commentary is weaksauce. (and rolling your eyes is just silly)

 

And making a conjecture based on past behavior is not putting words into your mouth. This is:

 

I hate comics' date=' god knows why I read them.[/quote']

[Chuckg]

Re: All-New Iron Age Zoo Crew?

 

I think its very brave that DC has recognized that they may have gone too far in an effort to add emotional weight and resonance to their characters and are willing to comment on it in their comic books. I mean' date=' how often have we seen a comic book company say, "Oops, got a little carried away there, let's try something different." And it looks like that's the direction DC is going.[/quote']

 

I think when the dust settles' date=' things will be more balanced between lighthearted, optomistic storytelling and realism.[/quote']

 

Have you ever heard the phrase "It's always darkest before the dawn?"

 

I can't imagine where I could possibly have gotten the idea that you were saying that DC was going to turn things around from the current darkfestorama. Nope, I was just making it all up and stuffing it in your mouth. :rolleyes:

[Eyendasky80]

Re: All-New Iron Age Zoo Crew?

 

I can't imagine where I could possibly have gotten the idea that you were saying that DC was going to turn things around from the current darkfestorama. Nope' date=' I was just making it all up and stuffing it in your mouth. :rolleyes: [/quote']

 

Dude, I have officially totally lost track of what the heck you're talking about.

 

Edit: Wait I think I've got it now.

 

Okay, how we interpret events going on at DC is up to us. But what I was saying was that Geoff Johns is now in creative control of the entire DCU universe along with Grant Morrison and with this central vision to guide it, the DCU is headed in an exciting new direction. I guess whether or not it is exciting is also debatale, but sales seem to suggest someone is excited.

 

In a separate thought, I guessed they intend to eventualy reach a healthy balance between light and dark.

 

Then you said that they've been in charge for the last two years and it just keeps getting darker.

 

So I posted articles that prove that they've held their new positions for a little over six months, that's all I was arguing.

 

Now as far as whether or not my guess is right or wrong, we'll just have to wait and see, but the point you've failed to concede or address is that Johns and Morrison have been contracted as creative consultants to steer the DCU much more recently than two years ago. However, you seem to still be debating whether they are headed into the light or deeper into the darkness, which I am not prepared to go into as it can go on forever and ever.

[Chuckg]

Re: All-New Iron Age Zoo Crew?

 

Amazing, given that you were saying it literally only five or six minutes ago.

 

Not admitting you may have misinterpreted what I said or (god forbid) misremembered something and instead obfuscating the point by making derisive commentary is weaksauce.

 

So again, what did I "misinterpret"?

 

Edit -- And no, posting those articles did not prove that they have held those positions for *only* six months. What you have proven is that they have held those positions for *at least* six months.

 

Given that I remember DC's panicked reassurances that 'it will get brighter! the darkness won't last! etc. etc. etc.!' coming about the time that the negative reaction to IDENTITY CRISIS started... which was before it was even halfway finished... your claim, even your re-re-re-re-revised claim, is still wrong.

[Eyendasky80]

Re: All-New Iron Age Zoo Crew?

 

Amazing, given that you were saying it literally only five or six minutes ago.

 

 

 

So again, what did I "misinterpret"?

 

Edit -- And no, posting those articles did not prove that they have held those positions for *only* six months. What you have proven is that they have held those positions for *at least* six months.

 

Given that I remember DC's panicked reassurances that 'it will get brighter! the darkness won't last! etc. etc. etc.!' coming about the time that the negative reaction to IDENTITY CRISIS started... which was before it was even halfway finished... your claim, even your re-re-re-re-revised claim, is still wrong.

 

What are you, stuttering now? Or is that more vitriol coming out of your keyboard? I didn't revise anything, you're arguing conjecture and opinion and all I'm trying to do is establish a fact about a specific point. And at least you deigned to participate in that with your hair splitting masterpiece "at least six months."

 

Honestly, it wouldn't be very good news if it wasn't new when it was published, would it? So lets say Didio sat on it for a little while and somehow, it doesn't get leaked out. Would he sit on it for a year and half? Why? If you're going to tell me all I've proven is its been at least six months, you should explain your logic in assuming its been more. Or better yet, why don't you go find an article two years old saying that Geoff and Grant are entering into contracts as creative consultants.

 

I won't enter into a debate with you about my personal theories and interpretations because they are diametrically opposed to yours, you get very nasty and I don't enjoy it. And you know what? Unlike you, I believe that your POV is valid and plausible, I just don't share it. So I'm really not very motivated to participate in a heated discussion about an issue I'm just not all that passionate about.

 

But hey, why don't you call me wrong a few more times, roll your eyes and tell me how contemptible my post is.

[BlackSword]

Re: All-New Iron Age Zoo Crew?

 

:stunned: But wait' date=' isn't the whole idea at DC & Marvel that "grim and gruesome is what the public wants"? I'm rather surprised they'd have the sense of humor to mock their own pretense like this. I thought they were taking themselves waaaay too seriously to allow humor in funny-books anymore.[/quote']

And actually re-reading my post I noticed my Signature. Humor is still allowed in comic books, its just that there are few situations that it fits in. DeMatties' two "I Can't Believe Its not Justice League" story arcs were chock full of slap stick humor.

[Chuckg]

Re: All-New Iron Age Zoo Crew?

 

What are you' date=' stuttering now? Or is that more vitriol coming out of your keyboard?[/quote']

 

You're doing an excellent job of trying to convince people that you are a mature and reasonable poster being harassed by a juvenile flame-baiter.

 

Really.

 

Absolutely dead-on perfect.

 

didn't revise anything, you're arguing conjecture and opinion and all I'm trying to do is establish a fact about a specific point. And at least you deigned to participate in that with your hair splitting masterpiece "at least six months."

 

Pointing out that the article you quoted wasn't the first time they said it is 'hair splitting' now?

 

Honestly, it wouldn't be very good news if it wasn't new when it was published, would it?

 

It wasn't "news" in the first place, it was advertising. Why do you think creators and editors give interviews and issue press releases in the first place? Because of their celebrity value? No, because they are trying to build -- or maintain -- or regain -- interest in the product being sold.

 

Your logic requires the assumption that nobody has ever repeated themselves in a series of interview over time, and said assumption is hard to maintain when the field in question (public relations) is the one that *INVENTED* the "give the stock answer to a stock question" tactic.

 

Let's try a hypothetical example:

 

"I promise to try and cut pork in government!" -- Senator Hypothetical, re-election campaign of 2004

 

Have I proven that Senator Hypothetical has been promising this for at least a year? Yes.

 

Have I proven that Senator Hypothetical has been promising this for *at most* a year? Hell no.

 

And a good thing too, given that Senator Hypothetical has made that same promise during every re-election campaign he's done in the past 19 years.

 

(While Senator Hypothetical is, of course, hypothetical, I'm sure every reader can supply at least one real-life example of him from their own experience.)

 

I won't enter into a debate with you about my personal theories and interpretations because they are diametrically opposed to yours, you get very nasty and I don't enjoy it.

 

One, I always find it puzzling (and several other things) when people who have been arguing with me repeatedly for an hour claim that they "won't enter into a debate with me", seeing as how for the conversation to get that far they not only already *have* gotten into one, but have then extended repeated and recurring effort into *staying* in one.

 

And two, the first person in our latest conversation to lower the tone was you, with your sneering 'well that's what you WOULD have said!' childish word game. I called such behavior 'contemptible' because that is precisely what it was. If you don't like being called on it, then either modify your behavior or use your Ignore List, because I'm not going to pretend it's not happening when you're (metaphorically) slapping me in the face with it.

 

So I'm really not very motivated to participate in a heated discussion about an issue I'm just not all that passionate about.

 

Odd, you seem to be *very* passionate just you, given that your replies to me only get longer and longer, and shout at me more and more heatedly. Hint: 'dispassion' is in the other direction. You know, the one where you stop posting.

 

PS -- I did not say that your POV was contemptible, I said that your ARGUMENT TACTIC(*) was contemptible. Learn the difference.

 

 

 

 

(*) To wit, making up whatever stupid stuff you wanted and then claiming that it's what I would have said anyway.

[Lethosos]

Re: All-New Iron Age Zoo Crew?

 

Just so that we're moving back to the TOPIC at HAND....

 

I think I can agree that it's satire--I have many fond memories of what few Zoo Crew "funny pages" I was able to read. Cold Turkey, Bow-zar the Barbarian, the "Crisis on Earth C Minus" with the crossover from CC's JLAnimals parody heroes... (Heck, I still recall the ones that were used--Supersquirrel, Wonder Wabbit, Batmouse, The Crash, Aquaduck, The Green Lambkin... ) Ah, if only they could return to the pages, in their fun Silver-Age style... or at least Bronze-Age, I'm not comfortable with them at Iron-Age for many reasons. They were silly enough to start off with--it's better on everyone that it stays close to the source material.

 

(And for the record, American Eagle may have "replaced" Yankee Poodle for some strange reason. Thankfully I never want to see this farce anyways.)

[FenrisUlf]

Re: All-New Iron Age Zoo Crew?

 

I forget who said it' date=' but they basically said if you are going to run a Silver Age setting, you have to ensure that your players have Silver Age opponents and scenarios. You can't set a ground rule that everyone has to have a 20 point CVK and then their first encounter the villain blows up a bus full of nuns. [/quote']

 

Very, very true. Returning to comics, I wonder just how the Joker has stayed alive for all these decades. You'd think that someone who committed all the murders he has would have been found face-down and taking a dirt nap years ago.

 

(And yes, I know he's still alive to show that Batman is "better than that"; okay, Batman is, but what about various angry Gothamites?)

 

However in the current DCU (well at least until Black Adam opened his can o' whoopash)' date=' they had their fictional country Khandaq that was ruled by a despot, practiced in child slavery, routinely slaughtered uprisings, etc. Superman, "meh, its their problem, not mine." How very heroic. The DCU is littered with Iron Age tropes that has been polluting the universe. Some of these are due to poor writing, some due to a good story that perhaps shouldn't be told in the mainstream DCU. In the end though, something has to be done to clean it up. Either take the DCU full into Iron Age, or do a revamp and clean it up.[/quote']

 

I agree again. Tallk all you like about "the unassailable principle of national sovreignty", but someone had to do something, and Black Adam and his gang were the only folks willing to step up to the plate.

[FenrisUlf]

Re: All-New Iron Age Zoo Crew?

 

Just so that we're moving back to the TOPIC at HAND....

 

I think I can agree that it's satire--I have many fond memories of what few Zoo Crew "funny pages" I was able to read. Cold Turkey, Bow-zar the Barbarian, the "Crisis on Earth C Minus" with the crossover from CC's JLAnimals parody heroes... (Heck, I still recall the ones that were used--Supersquirrel, Wonder Wabbit, Batmouse, The Crash, Aquaduck, The Green Lambkin... ) Ah, if only they could return to the pages, in their fun Silver-Age style... or at least Bronze-Age, I'm not comfortable with them at Iron-Age for many reasons. They were silly enough to start off with--it's better on everyone that it stays close to the source material.

 

And didn't Thomas also use DC funny animal characters from the 1940's? I seem to recall that Pig-Iron was one such, and that both Captain Dodo and Frogzilla were others.

 

And there was that time-travel issue where they met up with the Mousketeers, Shellback (Fastback's WW2 superhero relative, I think?), and Emperor Nero Fox, the swingin' sax player Emperor of Earth-C's Ancient Rome?

[Superskrull]

Re: All-New Iron Age Zoo Crew?

 

And didn't Thomas also use DC funny animal characters from the 1940's? I seem to recall that Pig-Iron was one such, and that both Captain Dodo and Frogzilla were others.

 

And there was that time-travel issue where they met up with the Mousketeers, Shellback (Fastback's WW2 superhero relative, I think?), and Emperor Nero Fox, the swingin' sax player Emperor of Earth-C's Ancient Rome?

 

Pig-Iron was originally Peter Porkchops, one of the old funny animal characters. He used to have problems with a wolf who was always wanting to eat him. The wolf was later brought back as the Wuzwolf, a reverse lycanthrope. The Frog & the Dodo supplied Captain Dodo & Frogzilla, though the Frog's transformation occured in the Zoo Crew Comic.

The Terrific Whatzit was Fastbacks uncle, McSnurtle the Turtle. He was given an 'automatic conscience' & superstrength & speed. he'd disguise himself by discarding his shell in his super-identity & wore an outfit like the Golden Age Flash. I think Nero Fox & the Mouseketeers were also old Funny Animal strips. Other than that, I can recall only Bo Bunny and a few others, mostly from info written by Roy Thomas.

[st barbara]

Re: All-New Iron Age Zoo Crew?

 

"Iron Age" Zoo Crew ? As Ron Stoppable would say "That is sick and wrong !"

[HeroGM]

Re: All-New Iron Age Zoo Crew?

 

found it....MOHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Rage]

Re: All-New Iron Age Zoo Crew?

 

I love how they just randomly have swamp thing there.

[Hermit]

Re: All-New Iron Age Zoo Crew?

 

I love how they just randomly have swamp thing there.

 

Whaddya mean random? he's emergency rations for the plant eaters of the team.

[Rage]

Re: All-New Iron Age Zoo Crew?

 

lol, it seems swampthings really had his status in the DC universe downgraded quite substatnially since his comic was canceled. Like a Quasar level decrease

[Enforcer84]

Re: All-New Iron Age Zoo Crew?

 

lol' date=' it seems swampthings really had his status in the DC universe downgraded quite substatnially since his comic was canceled. Like a Quasar level decrease[/quote']

Next he'll be hanging out with the ultimate tribuneral?

[FenrisUlf]

Re: All-New Iron Age Zoo Crew?

 

I love how they just randomly have swamp thing there.

 

Are you sure that's Swamp Thing and not Mudd? I seem to recall their meeting a swamp monster by that name anyway; Fastback rescued Farah Foxette from it (and got dropped like a hot rock. Women!).

[Superskrull]

Re: All-New Iron Age Zoo Crew?

 

Are you sure that's Swamp Thing and not Mudd? I seem to recall their meeting a swamp monster by that name anyway; Fastback rescued Farah Foxette from it (and got dropped like a hot rock. Women!).

 

Nope, that's Swamp Thing. Mudd was a muck-encrusted mockery of an anthropomorphic alligator. Alfred E. Newgator, IIRC.