"Only Protects Against BODY Damage" Cost?

[DeadlyUematsu]

I'm pondering the cost of a defensive power that protects only against BODY damage. I was thinking -1/4 but I thought that I might shop around for some opinions on the matter. So what do you think the cost should be?

[AliceTheOwl]

Re: "Only Protects Against BODY Damage" Cost?

 

Shouldn't it depend on whether you're dealing with a heroic or superheroic-level game? Generally speaking, the heroic-level games I've been in, the body damage is what adds up, but in superheroic, most people's defenses are high enough in the first place to prevent most body damage.

 

(I'm just throwing that out for the discussion potential.)

[Super Squirrel]

Re: "Only Protects Against BODY Damage" Cost?

 

It depends on campaign limits very much like Alice said. Overall, it isn't very limiting regardless of campaign so I wouldn't allow anything higher than a -1/2 for the limitation.

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: "Only Protects Against BODY Damage" Cost?

 

This is one of those case by case sort of affairs. Take a martial artist who has low defenses but a sort of instant regeneration power, bought as Armor only vs BDY. Since a single successful shot may very well knock him out with his low defenses, his instant regeneration really only keeps him from dying. I'd give him a -½.

 

Now take a character who is a sentient robot, built as an automaton. He doesn't take STN so he shouldn't get any limitation at all.

 

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[ghost-angel]

Re: "Only Protects Against BODY Damage" Cost?

 

I'd go with -1/2 on that.

[Dust Raven]

Re: "Only Protects Against BODY Damage" Cost?

 

This would depend not only on campaign and setting, but on the character as well and what other Defenses he has. If the character has a 30 PD and 30 ED in a campaign with a 12 DC max, then the Limitation for "Only Versus Body" on any additional DEF is a -0. If that defense is normal, and the DEF with the Limitation is his only Resistant DEF, then it might be worth a little more.

[Rapier]

Re: "Only Protects Against BODY Damage" Cost?

 

I usually use -1/4.

 

However, I could very easily see going with -1/2 in Heroic games.

[Vondy]

Re: "Only Protects Against BODY Damage" Cost?

 

In general I'd say -1/2, however, this would be adjusted up or down based on the lethality of the game and the chances of taking body damage based on genre and build considerations.

[Gary]

Re: "Only Protects Against BODY Damage" Cost?

 

In a heroic campaign, I'd give it -1/2. In a superheroic campaign, I'd give it -1/4.

 

It should be judged on a case by case basis depending on the rest of the character's resistant defenses and whether the character has regeneration or healing, but it's easier to have one consistent value.

[Sean Waters]

Re: "Only Protects Against BODY Damage" Cost?

 

I really can't recall the last time anyone died accidentally (i.e. when there was not a dramatic plot reason to do so) in a superheroic game. Taking BODY just is not a problem to my mind, that most superheroes have to deal with that often. Stun is far far far more of an everyday problem.

 

Assuming this is a normal type defence (pd/ed/armour/FF) I'd allow -1.

 

Assuming it is FW, nice try you get nothing.

 

Assuming it is Power Defence I'd probably allow -2.

 

There is clear authority for -1/2 under damage reduction, but, frankly I think that is swingeing as it is the same lim you get for 'only v stun', and as I said above, STUN is much more of a problem in almost all cases.

 

Mind you, as always, these comments only really apply generally - in specific situations and builds I might well change my mind (like if you want to build a defence against penetrating attacks that is ludicrously cheap)

[Steve]

Re: "Only Protects Against BODY Damage" Cost?

 

I think one of the better approaches to this was done in Champions for 5th on pg 138:

 

You Only Nicked Me!: Armor (6/6) (18 Active Points); Only Versus BODY (-1/2), Always Lets First BODY Through (-1/2), Applies Last Of All The Character's Defenses (-0). Total Cost: 9 Points.

 

I actually like this construct a little better than the Combat Luck Talent, and it does seem to replicate the "action hero" ability to not get killed too easily. Of course, if combined with Combat Luck, the hero could get nailed for up to 10 points of BODY damage and walk away with just a single BODY pip of actual injury.

[tesuji]

Re: "Only Protects Against BODY Damage" Cost?

 

Compare based on your campaign specifics what will happen to the charactrer in typical combats. Compare three cases:

 

1. Character without this specific defense at all.

2. Character with this defense unrestricted.

 

these are your benchmarks, your outer boundaries.

How many attacks before the guy is felled?

How long does it take him to recover?

Consider about six cases: one with a low average attack strength, one with an average attack strength, and one with a high average attack strength. Consider a killing and a normal for each but keep in mind how frequent each will be in your campaign.

 

3. character with this defense with the only body restriction.

 

if the results for case 3 are very similar to item 1, this added defense has litle to no impact at all. Consider giving it a -2 limitation.

 

if the results for 3 are very similar to item 2, the defense is doing mostly what it needs to do, and you should consider giving it a small lim at most, -1/4 maybe.

 

if the results fall in the middle of the two, you need to figure out how far, but more or less remember that if its halfway in the middle between them, the appropriate lim is around -1.

 

As an example, in most supers games i have run, a typical defense hero would buy this kind of defense with a -2 lim, as the vast majority of times he will take NO body in a superhero fight and so the defense serves no benefit.

[tesuji]

Re: "Only Protects Against BODY Damage" Cost?

 

Some examples:

 

Superheroes

Mage character has already got an 18/18 force field and 4 PD 4 ED. he has 10 body and 30 stun.

Campaign specs have attacks running from 10DC to 15 DC so we will assume 10d6, 12 d6 and 15 d6 for our basis along with the similar RKAs.

Character is wanting to buy 5/5 armor "olny vs body" lifekeeper amulet. 15 AP with IIF.

 

case 1 without defense: DAD is 13 stun, 20 stun and 27 stun from the EBs (thats damage after defenses) with no body usually getting thru. he falls after 2-3 hits regardless from stun damage. The RKAs are similar, with no body typically getting tho=rough and him going down by stun damage in about in two-to-four hits.

 

case 2 with unrestricted defenses shows only 8 stun, 15 stun and 22 stun and the fall downs are again stun with 2-4 hits.

 

When we look at case 3, the restricted defense, we see the character going down just as if he had no extra defense at all, because stun is really the kicker here, not body.

 

with no body damage, all stun is recovered in seconds so no effect there.

 

Give him the amulet with 15 ap, -2 only vs body and -1/4 for iif for a ridiculously cheap price of about 5 cp. Once in a great while, when caught completely by surprise or when the FF goes down, this 5 armor might help him be "out cold by a mile but not totally dead" but otherwise its just a cosmetic affection. 5 cp sounds about right.

 

Example two: Warrior in low magic fantasy

Assumptions are 6 armor and 6 normal PD/ED with 15 body and 45 stun.

World has attacks in the range of 1.5d6k, 2d6+1K to 3d6K as frequent enough to matter. here, normal attacks are fairly rare, so we will concentrate on the Ks.

 

Case 1 no defense shows the damage 0 bod 3 stun, 2 bod with 9 stun and 5 body with 19 stun which show falls in 15 hits (stun), 5hits (stun), and 3 hits (stun or bod) respectively. Except for the weaker case, there will be significant body damage to recover from which, in low magic, means a long time.

 

Case 2 unrestricted defense changes the fall downs to typically no body damage and stun falls after well, he standa fine against thwe weaker one all day long, takes 11 hits from the medium and four hits against the biggie.

 

Case 3 gets interesting as it gives us 15 hits stun, 5 hits (stun) and three hits stun but has countered almost all BODY damage. recovery will be quick since its all stun.

 

In this game, the actualy impact on falldown point is minimal, he still falls over from stun damage. The big difference is he doesn't also have body damage to recover. Its likely he will enter combats partly wounded without the amulet but keep fresh as a diasy with it.

 

So, i would give this some value, but only in successive multiple combats kind of a way, probably around a -1 1/2 or maybe -1 limitation (if i thought multiple combats without healing would be frequent enough) since it eliminates or mitigates two items of the six problems (three cases, fall down and recovery time for each) at best.

 

Example 3: Same as two but in a higher magic world where curative magic makes short work of post-combat injuries. In this case, the recovery issue is practically a non-entity so ending a fight with "i took some body" is almost the same as "i took no body" so the amulet is again mostly an affection. back to -2.

 

Example 4:

Martial artist with 15 body and 40 stun in superhero world.

Defenses are 6/6 PD/ED no resistant and damage reduction 50% resistant.

he has regeneration at 1 body per turn.

 

campaign specs are again in the 10-15DC range. Both KAs and normals common.

 

Case 1 no def shows him down in three hits with 6 lost body, three hits with 6 lost body and two hits with 8 body vs the normals. against the rkas, its three hit with 15 lost body, about 2 hits with 14 body and two hits with going into negative body.

 

Note, in each case, he is running out of stun and body about the same time. So to save time, with the amulet, he will drop about as quick but have significantly more body left over. His regen makes recovery fairly quick, so this isn't going to matter much in the long run. Again I fall in around -1 1/2 because the occasions when body matters will come up, just not that often.

 

 

it going to be rare the builds where i would see this as worth less than a -1 lim and most often IMX its gonna be -2 or -1 1/2.

 

if you run a variant campaign rule which doubles KA damage or adds extra stun, then it starts to become an issue.

 

heck, shoot an unarmored normal with a big handgun, 2d6K and he is likely to be left with a little body and knocked out by stun. while the lifekeeper amulet would leave him with more body left over he is still out cold.

 

regenerating all that body in a couple minutes through regen costs what, 7 cp or 8? so a lifekeeper amulet which stops 5 of it, leaving him 2 body to heal normally, should cost less than that and thats what -2 lim for "only affects body" does, price wise, bringing it in at ~5 cp.

 

 

YMMV