It stays that way

[Threnody]

Howdy.

 

I been kicking round a char. idea, but I don't know how to do it. What I want is an undismissible Multiform.

What I mean is, when the char. changes to a form, it plain out IS that thing (whatever it is). There's no way to force it back to its "natural form" cause they just ain't such a thing.

 

The result is Drain, Transfer, Supress, and Dispel have nothing to work with; there's no "off" to turn the Multiform. Before you all yell "Munchkin!"'; my GM is cool with the idea, but she's got no more idea nor me how to do it.

 

Any of you wonderfully bright people see a way to do this?

[gojira]

Re: It stays that way

 

Transform.

 

*ducks*

[schir1964]

Re: It stays that way

 

Howdy.

 

I been kicking round a char. idea, but I don't know how to do it. What I want is an undismissible Multiform.

What I mean is, when the char. changes to a form, it plain out IS that thing (whatever it is). There's no way to force it back to its "natural form" cause they just ain't such a thing.

 

The result is Drain, Transfer, Supress, and Dispel have nothing to work with; there's no "off" to turn the Multiform. Before you all yell "Munchkin!"'; my GM is cool with the idea, but she's got no more idea nor me how to do it.

 

Any of you wonderfully bright people see a way to do this?

Check out the Inherent advantage. Place it on the Multiform Power.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[Threnody]

Re: It stays that way

 

Check out the Inherent advantage. Place it on the Multiform Power.

 

- Christopher Mullins

Oh dang! I forgot an important part——the character should be able to go to a different form after its first change.

That is, it buys a bunch-load of forms, can switch to any, but can't be switched to its "nat'ral" form cause there ain't one. My GM says Inherent on Multiform means once it changes, it can't go to no other form (even tho' it wants to).

 

 

Transform.

 

*ducks*

My GM ruled no "Transforms on self"——Yeah, some people are cool with that, but not my GM.

[schir1964]

Re: It stays that way

 

Oh dang! I forgot an important part——the character should be able to go to a different form after its first change.

That is, it buys a bunch-load of forms, can switch to any, but can't be switched to its "nat'ral" form cause there ain't one. My GM says Inherent on Multiform means once it changes, it can't go to no other form (even tho' it wants to).

Oh well then, this is simple. Basically, the Base Form is being excluded from the forms that the character can change into. If this is correct, then it's a -0 Limitation that is defined at purchase. Once the character Multififorms the very first time, bye bye Base Form. Done.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[SteelDoom]

Re: It stays that way

 

I don't have the book on me, but I know some powers have the difficult to dispel advantage. Buying that several times with an already expensive power should do the trick. The base form thing might be simulatable with another advantage.

[actingkeith]

Re: It stays that way

 

...it buys a bunch-load of forms' date=' can switch to any, but can't be switched to its "nat'ral" form cause there ain't one.[/quote'] Ok, here's where I think you're going wonky. Here's why and how, just because you pay points for a 'first form' doesn't really mean it's the natural form... especially if you buy the Multiforms with Inherent.

 

My GM says Inherent on Multiform means once it changes' date=' it can't go to no other form (even tho' it wants to).[/quote'] Your GM might not want you to build this character and is probably throwing needless roadblocks in your way to frustrate you.

 

Remember that building a character for a campaign should be a collaborative process between player and GM. If the GM doesn't want the character, you shouldn't build it.

 

If the GM legitimately thinks that Inherent means that the character has no control over his forms, then I think your GM needs to take a look at it again. Inherent is taken to mean that other people cannot muck with the character's power, not the character himself.

 

 

 

Here's my advice on the build:

 

Build the 'main' character as if it were a Form. Buy the Multiform power with Inherent so that no one can muck with it. Call it a Special Effect that there is no 'base' Form. Since no one can Dispel/Drain/Absorb you character into any Form, it really doesn't matter what the 'base' Form is.

 

Done.

 

The character can go from Form to Form with no one being able to Dispel/Drain/Absorb him into any particular Form...

 

...watch out for Mind Control though...

 

I think you're working too hard on this. Relax, take a breath. This stuff is easy.

 

 

Peace,

 

-k

[ghost-angel]

Re: It stays that way

 

Inherent just means the Power can't be "Switched Off" not that it can't be reactivated again and again. With it on Multiform whatever form you've switched to becomes the Base Form and you can't be forced into a new form, reintializing the Power shouldlet you switch forms.

 

At least that's how I'd work it.

[Legendsmiths]

Re: It stays that way

 

Ditto - Inherent. Done.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: It stays that way

 

Inherent is how I'd do it as well.

[gojira]

Re: It stays that way

 

My GM ruled no "Transforms on self"——Yeah' date=' some people are cool with that, but not my GM. [/quote']

 

Really? Huh, I think then I agree that the GM is throwing roadblocks at you. Time to ask the GM what is really up, and maybe offer a different character concept if indeed this one isn't one the GM wants.

 

Just curious for the other posters here, what would the equivalent of "Polymorph Self" be in Hero? Assuming it's 100%, the new form *is* now the inherent form? Assume that a magical "dispell" wouldn't change it back. Shapeshift w/ Inherent? Multiform with Inherent? I assumed Major Transform because that the default in Hero for making "permanent" changes...

[prestidigitator]

Re: It stays that way

 

Really? Huh, I think then I agree that the GM is throwing roadblocks at you. Time to ask the GM what is really up, and maybe offer a different character concept if indeed this one isn't one the GM wants.

 

Just curious for the other posters here, what would the equivalent of "Polymorph Self" be in Hero? Assuming it's 100%, the new form *is* now the inherent form? Assume that a magical "dispell" wouldn't change it back. Shapeshift w/ Inherent? Multiform with Inherent? I assumed Major Transform because that the default in Hero for making "permanent" changes...

D&D's, "Polymorph Self," has always been a temporary, constant effect. There is nothing inherent about the new form, and the spell can certainly be ended prematurely, either by the caster or by some outside force (such as a use of, "Dispel Magic"). "Polymorph Other," is (used to be?) permenant. It cannot be used as a, "Polymorph Self," changes the true form of the target (even to the point of the target losing its identity), and is really quite equivalent to Transform, not Multiform.

[Basil]

Re: It stays that way

 

I once started work on a character like this. I did it via what I call "Chained Multiforms."

 

At any given time, the character would have had a "Current Form." The current form had a Physical Limitation "This Form is destroyed by changing to the alternate form (Infrequently, Fully) 15 points." He would also have had a Multiform big enough to hold a character built on the same number of points he was. The character would have been restricted by the requirement the alternate form had to have the above Physical Limit and a similar Multiform; I'm not sure if that would be considered a Char. Disad. worth points, a Limitation on the Multiform, or just a "rule of the road" worth no points.

 

Thus, the character would use the Current Form as long as he wanted, then switch to the alternate form using the Multiform, which would make the (now previous) form cease to exist. No way to be forced back to it with Drain, Dispel, etc., because it doesn't exist at all, not even in potentia.

 

You can adapt this if you want.

[Sean Waters]

Re: It stays that way

 

I'm pretty sure 'no transforms on self' is not the GM being awkward, just the GM reading the rule book: you can't transform yourself.

 

Now arguably if you change form the new form does not have multiform so it can't be drained. Now that is obviously rubbish but I can't quite put my finger on why for the moment.

 

If I was the GM, and depending on how useful each form is I might let drains just stick you in your current form i.e. simply take away the ability to ASSUME a new form. If you have 2 forms: Superman and a 70lb drooling fool, I probably would rule otherwise.

 

I am not a fan of allowing inherent as drain defence, without real good reason. I'd want you to buy power defence (only to prevent multiform drain) personally.

[Super Squirrel]

Re: It stays that way

 

To throw out an alternative suggestion:

 

Power Defense: Only to permit multiform from reverting to natural self but does not prevent multiform from being turned off from being used again (-2)

[pinecone]

Re: It stays that way

 

Yeah Inherant bugs me...I'd suggest Power def 10 to 20 points Lim: Only to prevent reversion (-1 or even -2 if this dispell is extra rare) and one or two aplications or "Difficult to displell"

 

The only other "out of the box" answer is VPP:Multiforms/shapeshifting only...and claim that in every case the "new you" is the Only you...but that gets a little hand wavey......

[Sean Waters]

Re: It stays that way

 

Whilst inherent is a bugbear to my mind, in avoiding drains, you COULD think of it this way:

 

To buy inherent on everything you purchase for a 350 point chatacter costs (350-(350/1.25) = 70 points. If you spent that 70 points on hardened power defence, you'd have 56 points of hardened power derfence: more than enough to see off virtually any adjustment power threat SO buying 'inherent' for individual powers is not necessarily a bad way of simulating a power for which you have (virtualy) bought a lot of power defence.

 

Limitations: I know: they can make the 'inherent' advantage cost a lot less; I'm just saying....

[Threnody]

Re: It stays that way

 

I once started work on a character like this. I did it via what I call "Chained Multiforms."

 

At any given time, the character would have had a "Current Form." The current form had a Physical Limitation "This Form is destroyed by changing to the alternate form (Infrequently, Fully) 15 points." He would also have had a Multiform big enough to hold a character built on the same number of points he was. The character would have been restricted by the requirement the alternate form had to have the above Physical Limit and a similar Multiform; I'm not sure if that would be considered a Char. Disad. worth points, a Limitation on the Multiform, or just a "rule of the road" worth no points.

 

Thus, the character would use the Current Form as long as he wanted, then switch to the alternate form using the Multiform, which would make the (now previous) form cease to exist. No way to be forced back to it with Drain, Dispel, etc., because it doesn't exist at all, not even in potentia.

 

You can adapt this if you want.

BINGO! That's perfect!

 

Thanks a B-load. I've shown it to my GM and she's with it. She says it's the perfect way to do it, and she's happy I found something that works in the rules.

 

Everyone else---thanks for trying. My GM says Inherent on Multiform means it's changing all the time; otherwise it's not the Multiform that's Inherent, it's the alternate form. I think she's right. Oh, and Power Def. can be overcome, which is not the idea I was trying for. But I 'preciate the work.

[Rapier]

Re: It stays that way

 

Transform.

 

*ducks*

 

Actually, this is exactly how I would do it. You have a Major Transform with all its natural limitations for the SFX and you throw on a lim that only from a short list of forms.

 

Its possible to work around it with Inherent Shape Shifts/Multiforms etc, but I would really prefer any character in my games to use Transform for this.

 

OR just for built in rules effect, Multiform that has Difficult to Dispel.

 

Actually thinking about it, I would go Difficult to Dispel for starters then go to Transform.

[prestidigitator]

Re: It stays that way

 

Actually, this is exactly how I would do it. You have a Major Transform with all its natural limitations for the SFX and you throw on a lim that only from a short list of forms.

 

Its possible to work around it with Inherent Shape Shifts/Multiforms etc, but I would really prefer any character in my games to use Transform for this.

 

OR just for built in rules effect, Multiform that has Difficult to Dispel.

 

Actually thinking about it, I would go Difficult to Dispel for starters then go to Transform.

I can see how Transform could be used in some games to do this kind of thing, as long as you limit it do some degree. Restrict the kind of things it can change about the character as appropriate and make it change point allocations instead of adding additional Powers.

 

Of course, even Transform is supposed to have some condition for reversion, so have you really gotten rid of the issue? Maybe it's okay to relax that requirement for a Transform designed to be used on yourself....

[Basil]

Re: It stays that way

 

BINGO! That's perfect!

 

Thanks a B-load. I've shown it to my GM and she's with it. She says it's the perfect way to do it, and she's happy I found something that works in the rules.

 

Everyone else---thanks for trying. My GM says Inherent on Multiform means it's changing all the time; otherwise it's not the Multiform that's Inherent, it's the alternate form. I think she's right. Oh, and Power Def. can be overcome, which is not the idea I was trying for. But I 'preciate the work.

 

You're welcome!

 

Glad you and your GM are happy with it.

[Threnody]

Re: It stays that way

 

You're welcome!

 

Glad you and your GM are happy with it.

Like it? Heck, she's gone use it for the next PC she gets to play!