Black Omega Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 This might be better off in the other genre forum, but it seems more suited to the Dark Champions/Gun nuts forum. Assuming a world where it's well known vampires, werewolves, etc exist, it's reasonable to say the army would have a unit for dealing with such problems. Using variations on existing special forces equipment and assuming that the spec/ops guys are fully human, no magical abilities, what sort of equipment might be used? I'm already assuming general issue is silver ammunition since that works on most of the monsters. Are any of the new airburst grenades incendiary? I'm thinking maybe M136's with silver HE. Holy Water aerosol grenades. Anything bigger? This is for my Hell's Gate Open campaign. Currently the group is trying to stop vampiric/zombie/demonic happenings in New Orleans which may include the attempt to open a gateway to Hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edsel Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 Re: Supernatural Special Forces UV Parachute flares (assuming that you've decided that the UV in sunlight is what gets the vampires). Flame weapons would probably be big since most things are at least bothered by flame. If the the quantity of water being blessed is not a big concern some sort of Holy Water cannon could be produced. Silver and Wooden bayonets might be available for your rifle. A USAS-12 Autofire shotgun loaded with silver buckshot ought to work quite nicely. A garlic gas grenade ought to flush certain things out of the holes they ar hiding in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 Re: Supernatural Special Forces Paintball guns. I'm serious. The tech for paintball guns has gotten crazy good, and you could load those little plastic spheres with a whole lotta different specialized submunitions. Silver nitrate, Garlic juice, holy water, pyrophoric incendiaries. The mind boggles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baphomet Jones Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 Re: Supernatural Special Forces Hmmm...let's see... --Spiked collars, to discourage neck bites. --Skin cream infused with wolfsbane and garlic, you'll smell terrible, or delicious, depending on who you ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 Re: Supernatural Special Forces Paintball guns. I'm serious. The tech for paintball guns has gotten crazy good, and you could load those little plastic spheres with a whole lotta different specialized submunitions. Silver nitrate, Garlic juice, holy water, pyrophoric incendiaries. The mind boggles. That's a very clever idea. Sometimes, though, you need projectiles with penetrating power to put the toxic substances past the target's tough hide and into its bloodstream. A few pop culture sources have suggested stuffing the tips of standard hollow-point bullets with garlic, wolfsbane and the like. Particularly nasty with automatic weapons. Rock salt is sometimes considered to be effective against zombies, ghosts and other things, so shotguns loaded with that would also be good to have in the arsenal. Given recent advances in the development of man-portable, chemically powered laser weapons, it wouldn't be a big technological leap to arm some of your troops with ultraviolet lasers. UV is a common pop rationale for the traditional vulnerability of various supernatural creatures to sunlight. The UV lasers wouldn't have to be powerful enough to seriously harm creatures without that vulnerability, so they'd be practical with today's tech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Omega Posted March 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 Re: Supernatural Special Forces Good points from people so far. A spiked collar trends a little to fetishist. I'm sure that's not what was meant, just the mental image.. But a gorget added to the standard Interceptor armor would work fine. The paintball idea is interesting, I'd not considered anything like that. Hmm... World wise garlic bothers some vampires a little like a mild allergy, annoying but not weapon material. Holy Water burns like acid to vampires and infernal things. So the idea of a holy water mist grenade for flushing things out has merit. Bayonets would be very much a last resort thing. If the monster is close enough you have to use it, then you are probably dead. Silver loaded autoshotgun is classic though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 Re: Supernatural Special Forces That's a very clever idea. Sometimes' date=' though, you need projectiles with penetrating power to put the toxic substances past the target's tough hide and into its bloodstream. A few pop culture sources have suggested stuffing the tips of standard hollow-point bullets with garlic, wolfsbane and the like. Particularly nasty with automatic weapons.[/quote'] AFAIK, a lot of the newer tranq dart guns are modified from paintball gun designs as well. You could also drop some of the skin absobtion chemicals into the mix if you aren't worried about purity (whats the stuff called again?? DMSO?) Higher penetration is difficult... anything you do to pack a standard bullet with a soft meduim will basically create an expansion round, with great damage but kinda lousy penetration. The Anita Blake books do silver Glasier Saftey slugs, which is probably a good idea anyway. Rock salt is sometimes considered to be effective against zombies' date=' ghosts and other things, so shotguns loaded with that would also be good to have in the arsenal.[/quote'] Shotguns are a great delivery method for a LOT of anti supernatural munitions. The rock salt is a neat idea I hadn't considered before. Lots of traditional faeries hate salt too. Either that or REALLY love the stuff. Like, "stop fighting to try and collect the scattered salt" like Given recent advances in the development of man-portable' date=' chemically powered laser weapons, it wouldn't be a big technological leap to arm some of your troops with ultraviolet lasers. UV is a common pop rationale for the traditional vulnerability of various supernatural creatures to sunlight. The UV lasers wouldn't have to be powerful enough to seriously harm creatures without that vulnerability, so they'd be practical with today's tech.[/quote'] If UV plays out in the campaign setting as the damaging component of sunlight you hand the players a HUGE weapon. UV spotlights, area interdiction with UV lights.... Heck... your "standard" worklight fixtures use 2 48" fluorecent tubes... 40 watt UV tubes are available for them for about $13 at most any hardware store. Easy way to setup an aera as a trap. And yeah, UV lasers too. Poor wittle supernatural baddies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Omega Posted March 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 Re: Supernatural Special Forces Given recent advances in the development of man-portable' date=' chemically powered laser weapons, it wouldn't be a big technological leap to arm some of your troops with ultraviolet lasers. UV is a common pop rationale for the traditional vulnerability of various supernatural creatures to sunlight. The UV lasers wouldn't have to be powerful enough to seriously harm creatures without that vulnerability, so they'd be practical with today's tech.[/quote']Good point. Though using the Anita Blake Universe, the vampire problem with sunlight doesn't seem to be UV based. Vampires can feel the sun coming up even if they can't see it and pretty much all vampires must 'sleep' when the sun comes up. For my own personal perference, UV rays as weapons tends to lead to vampires in UV proof suits (or wearing heavy sunscreen like in Blade) and I'm not sure that's what I want in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Omega Posted March 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 Re: Supernatural Special Forces AFAIK' date=' a lot of the newer tranq dart guns are modified from paintball gun designs as well. You could also drop some of the skin absobtion chemicals into the mix if you aren't worried about purity (whats the stuff called again?? DMSO?) Higher penetration is difficult... anything you do to pack a standard bullet with a soft meduim will basically create an expansion round, with great damage but kinda lousy penetration. The Anita Blake books do silver Glasier Saftey slugs, which is probably a good idea anyway.[/quote'] While the drugs won't work against vampires, I can really see skin abosrbed drugs working against lycanthropes since they don't tend to stay all covered up. Yes, DMSO makes everything skin absorbing, I believe. Hmmm..now for dealing with zombies, some type of engineered fleshing eating virus, very short life span. Could work on vampires as well, though they can heal so it might not work as well it could still be a serious inconvinience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 Re: Supernatural Special Forces I freely admit to being behind the times when it comes to paintballing (I stopped playing in the early 90's), but TELL me this doesn't look like something a Hunter might carry.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 Re: Supernatural Special Forces While the drugs won't work against vampires' date=' I can really see skin abosrbed drugs working against lycanthropes since they don't tend to stay all covered up. Yes, DMSO makes everything skin absorbing, I believe. Hmmm..now for dealing with zombies, some type of engineered fleshing eating virus, very short life span. Could work on vampires as well, though they can heal so it might not work as well it could still be a serious inconvinience.[/quote'] Yeah, but you don't really need the drugs against Vamps... Holywater works fine there Though the idea of carrying specially doped plasma balls for inciting vampires into a feeding frenzy might have potential.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThothAmon Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 Re: Supernatural Special Forces The excellently dark 'Ultraviolet' TV series portrayed some very specialist anti-vampire munitions. Handguns used ammo with chemically hardened wooden loads rather than lead or silver. Weapons were also fitted with an underbarrel micro camera that fed a live picture to a miniature LCD TV screen mounted on the side of the handgun near the rear iron sight. As vampires didn't show up on camera, mirror or AV recording this provided a reliable target identification system. Frag grenades were altered to use wooden fragmentation casing. Tear gas grens were similarly adapted to use garlic. Garlic / holy water pepper spray would be useful. Substitute wolfsbane for shapeshifters. Glaser slugs built using silver nitrate would be very nasty to supernaturals bothered by silver. Flechette shotgun shells using silver coated darts would likewise be very reliable but hard on the weapon barrel. Traditionally the pure forms of iron affected many otherwise invulnerable critters. Substitute iron for lead in shotgun pellets and you are onto a winner. Don't neglect phosphor grenades (Willie Pete) and even the famous 'Dragons Breath' phosphor round for shotgun shells. Likewise the modern German-made hand flamer, or even a generic flamethrower. Suppression fire using small portable mortars would also be a useful device for a military strike, load shells with suitable ammo variant and use as a softening measure prior to small-unit strike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQuestionMan Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 Re: Supernatural Special Forces Thank you Herophiles, now we might survive??? Maybe QM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 Re: Supernatural Special Forces BTW, BlackOmega... Good thread idea... been thinking about some of these ideas lately myself, and pondering starting a thread, but now I don't have to! Repped. To continue the ideas... I think that you'd see a LOT of the anti-preternatual SpecForces types equipped with some form of underslung secondary weapons... M203's with specialized grenades, pump 12 gauges, and it'd probably be a more likely way to deploy a paintball gun than as a main weapon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Typist Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 Re: Supernatural Special Forces Don't forget claymores packed with silver ball bearings..... though at close range, regular would kill pretty much anything, supernatural or not. Still, silver to be safe eh? Also, don't forget close combat. Silver chain mesh armors designed to deal with the typically slashing attacks of claws and fangs, rather than severe punctures, but perhaps reinforced with partial plating in case of an old schooler with a sword. Speaking of swords, troops would probably be trained in a more old school style of fighting anyway, and would want to use good blades (machetes, swords, hand axes) etc as a backup (last resort) weapon. Also, silver knuckles, silver spurs, and some martial arts (for getting out of holds, causing one hit stuns etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQuestionMan Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 Re: Supernatural Special Forces Bouncing Betty's - Originally Paint Ball Grenades with highly compressed. When it hits the ground it spins, spraying paint over a 5 meter radius. Cheers QM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 Re: Supernatural Special Forces Also, don't forget close combat. Silver chain mesh armors designed to deal with the typically slashing attacks of claws and fangs, rather than severe punctures, but perhaps reinforced with partial plating in case of an old schooler with a sword. Speaking of swords, troops would probably be trained in a more old school style of fighting anyway, and would want to use good blades (machetes, swords, hand axes) etc as a backup (last resort) weapon. Also, silver knuckles, silver spurs, and some martial arts (for getting out of holds, causing one hit stuns etc). Good points. The original, pre-"daywalker" comic version of Blade used knives made of sharpened teak, an extremely hard wood, against vampires rather than simple stakes. It would probably be logistically practical to carry blessed hand weapons, as well. They aren't expended as often as ranged ammunition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Omega Posted March 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 Re: Supernatural Special Forces Mortors are an interesting idea, I'll have to think on ways to use them. They are good squad level weapons. Paintball mortor shells? Hmm.... Paintballs are definitately a support weapon. If I'm carrying the paintball gun, I want a friend or two with assault rifles backing me up. I'm not as sold on trying to go hand to hand with monsters, it's playing into their strengths going toe to toe with something that can benchpress a cadillac. But if you must try it, modern body armor would be a must. I'm sure there would be a way to work in silver with kevlar or something stronger. Since vampires are likely to use swords, something rigid would be even better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDU Neil Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 Re: Supernatural Special Forces I like the idea of thinking about what intelligent, supplied and prepared monsters would do to counter this stuff. I think a game like this could get really cool if, down the line, the PCs run into a bunch of UV suited, heavy assult weapon wielding, vampires leading a bunch of werewolves with heavy combat armor with the steel plate inserts (easily worn by such strong creatures) which would totally stop soft silver bullets, etc. Have them use EMP grenades to knock out the high tech bits putting the advantage back on the rend and tear basics of the monsters. Evil psychics with pyrokinetics that can cause ammo to burn off in the clip with just a look, etc. Let the PCs run around for months chewing the crap out of the monsters and such... only to get units just wiped out when they get hit back by a small, prepared cabal. That could really knock the campaign up a notch once the weekly monster hunting gets a little old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 Re: Supernatural Special Forces I like the idea of thinking about what intelligent, supplied and prepared monsters would do to counter this stuff. I think a game like this could get really cool if, down the line, the PCs run into a bunch of UV suited, heavy assult weapon wielding, vampires leading a bunch of werewolves with heavy combat armor with the steel plate inserts (easily worn by such strong creatures) which would totally stop soft silver bullets, etc. Have them use EMP grenades to knock out the high tech bits putting the advantage back on the rend and tear basics of the monsters. Evil psychics with pyrokinetics that can cause ammo to burn off in the clip with just a look, etc. Let the PCs run around for months chewing the crap out of the monsters and such... only to get units just wiped out when they get hit back by a small, prepared cabal. That could really knock the campaign up a notch once the weekly monster hunting gets a little old. Actually the game I was thinking about the paintball guns for went a lot like your idea there... The idea brewing around in my head was "What kinda weapons could an elite Hunter force now cut off and on the run russle up?". Limited funds, only what you can get fairly "under the radar", as it were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamato Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 Re: Supernatural Special Forces You might consider an industrial siphon, i.e., professional seltzer bottle. I seem to remember a Serreted Edge novel (Mercedes lackey) in which the human engineer uses 1 loaded w/iron filings in the water. He also has it blessed by a pagan w/the old oak-&-ash-&-thorn blessing which tends to work against supernatural nasties. In the novel, it blasted a hole through a bqanshee's heqad, but that might just be literary license. However, an industrial siphon would fire even when the water's loaded w/filings. Just think of the look on the vamp's face when you let loose w/it in his face!! Also, in the Nightlife game the Hunters there had developed special rounds for shotguns that included holy water, silver nitrate, garlic, cld iron shot, & flint chips as these were all VUL of the variuos supernatural nasties of 1 sort or another. If fire works, then use WP rounds in your firearms. You mightg have to replace barrels fairly often but at least if the round hits it keeps burning until it's gone or has nothing left that's combustable. Just remember that WP grenades can splatter on you & WP burns are at least 3rd degree or worse. Also you might want to consider trying manganese powder & glycerin. It gives off a fairly high heat when it goes off. But don't forget about napalm. Every corporeal suprenatural beasty will burn & you can make napalm out of styrafoam packing peanuts or soap sahvings (Ivory works very well) mixed w/gasoline. Just don't be too close when it hits or you might get covered yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Omega Posted March 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 Re: Supernatural Special Forces Some suggestions are campaign specific, of course. In my game, holy water burns vampires and demonic manifestations like acid but garlic is merely annoying and water blessed by a druid would simply be a light shower. Claymores won't kill a vampire, even at point blank range, but could seriously mess him up. Add silver and it can get pretty bloody and lethal both for the monsters. Besides, it also lets you trigger it by remote and the further you are frmo the vampire the better. Fire is a good catch all. It hurts everything short of a demon and vampires in my game have a special vulnerability to it. Napalm, WP, pyrophoric chemicals, anything works. The paintball gun is a great idea, I already have an idea on how it might be used in my game. Just for background, in my game the party is in New Orleans fighting demonic manifestations, zombies and vampires. A spec/ops team from the army was flown in but one Legendary Magic Bullet later the jet crashed and the party are on the way to see what happened. This gives me a good idea of what basic equipment they have as well as what their big ace in the hole probably was. I might even work in LAWS of some type. They'll need all the help they can get when they meet 'Der Freischutz'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDU Neil Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 Re: Supernatural Special Forces I'm assuming everyone on this thread has seen the movie Dog Soliders, right? One of the best acted, suspenseful and engaging action/horror movies I've seen. While I was a bit put off by the sheer "invulnerability" of the monsters, it was a GREAT take on how a team of soldiers would try to fight off the supernatural. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vengeance Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 Re: Supernatural Special Forces RDU Neil, I've never seen this, but thanks for the tip. I've added it to my NetFlix queue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDU Neil Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 Re: Supernatural Special Forces RDU Neil, I've never seen this, but thanks for the tip. I've added it to my NetFlix queue. It's a pretty low budget monster flick... but surprpisingly good. Those Brits know how to make a decent small movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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