Supernatural Special Forces

[Black Omega]

Re: Supernatural Special Forces

 

It also appears on Sci-Fi channel sometimes.

[Manic Typist]

Re: Supernatural Special Forces

 

Two things:

 

One, on the close combat: Of course, it is a last resort. Anyone who prefers to go with a blade as opposed to a gun, against paranormals, is either really dangerous, or really stupid. If they are on YOUR side, then they are both. However, they are only dangerous to YOU. On the other hand, I think it would be incredibly reckless for any team that is specifically established for these sort of nasties to not prepare for the very likely scenario of close combat.

 

Second: I'm sorry, I guess your vampires must be quite something, because, at point blank range a vampire could be reduced to literalt MIST (red tinted) by a claymore. It's not that I can't buy the possibility of their survival. The angle, how close they were, and luck could easily avoid doing enough damage to get the perma kill. I am just wondering if you are giving this little weapon its full credit. After all, in your world, if I blow a vampire's head of with normal ammo (and I do mean clean off), is it dead? I guess I just need a guage of how much one of your vamp's can regenrate, so that I can better suggest what might be useful to fight them.

[Black Omega]

Re: Supernatural Special Forces

 

Two things:

 

One, on the close combat: Of course, it is a last resort. Anyone who prefers to go with a blade as opposed to a gun, against paranormals, is either really dangerous, or really stupid. If they are on YOUR side, then they are both. However, they are only dangerous to YOU. On the other hand, I think it would be incredibly reckless for any team that is specifically established for these sort of nasties to not prepare for the very likely scenario of close combat.

My planning in this area for my spec/ops guys was that they used aikido or something similar that would allow them to survive against a monster in close. In my world though, vampires often carry swords and the next vampire they run into that uses a gun will be the first. So too a large degree, getting a little range and firing more remains a valid option. My group has a swordsman but he's above special forces level. The Vatican's Section XIII has special agents that use bladed weapons but even with them it's an exception. For a special forces thing it's more cost effective to train men to escape using hand to hand so they can use their more effective equipment and skills. Special forces guys can train more heavily in martialk arts on their own time though. Not unlike the real world in this sense.

 

Second: I'm sorry' date=' I guess your vampires must be quite something, because, at point blank range a vampire could be reduced to literalt MIST (red tinted) by a claymore. It's not that I can't buy the possibility of their survival. The angle, how close they were, and luck could easily avoid doing enough damage to get the perma kill. I am just wondering if you are giving this little weapon its full credit. After all, in your world, if I blow a vampire's head of with normal ammo (and I do mean clean off), is it dead? I guess I just need a guage of how much one of your vamp's can regenrate, so that I can better suggest what might be useful to fight them.[/quote']Well, this is where I meant alot of things are campaign specific. I'm sure vampires from the Underworld movies would be killed by a claymore. In my game simple lead is never enough. Assuming the vampire stays still for it, shooting one's head off with a shotgun won't kill it. It might stun the creature for a minute. But to kill it silver, fire, real sunlight, something holy would be needed. There are a very few old and/or powerful vampires in my game where could be shot to pieces by a regular 50. BMG M2HB and stand back up again in seconds, body reforming. And probably grinning. But in my game vampires are the apex predators among monsters, they are the ones who can do things that break all physical laws.

[Sociotard]

Re: Supernatural Special Forces

 

I think white oak is good to use on witches, pure iron for faeries.

 

Don't forget crosses, if those do anything. If holy water does, crosses should. Every man a chaplain!

 

Trained owels to take down bats.

 

Werewolves should have enhanced hearing, so ultrasonic weapons made to cause debilitating pain might work.

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: Supernatural Special Forces

 

Modern military depends a lot on information and being able to target the enemy in adverse conditions. They would certainly want to develop some means for detecting the supernatural before the monsters got too close. Nightvision goggles might be widespread since the monsters invariably love the dark. But if the supernatural inherently gives off some energy, odor, or whatever, you can bet a military going after the beasties will develop something to detect it.

 

As Sociotard mentioned, holy symbols, if they work, would be on every piece of equipment. They might have crucifix hologram generators to set up a safety barrier as well. And if you get clever with the optics, how about a laser weapon that burns a small cross in whatever it hits (extra dice of killing attack only vs supernatural)?

 

Finally, since I would envision fire-base weapons as being in heavy use, you would almost certainly have lots of fire-fighter type equipment in case things got out of hand, or at least breathing apparatus and flame resistant outfits (actual fire extinguishers maybe not since the monsters might get a hold of them unless they could be covered with holy symbols or something to prevent that)

 

_______________________________________________________

"Invisible monsters!? Oh my god, they were to cheap to hire villains!" - Tom Servo

[Manic Typist]

Re: Supernatural Special Forces

 

My planning in this area for my spec/ops guys was that they used aikido or something similar that would allow them to survive against a monster in close. In my world though, vampires often carry swords and the next vampire they run into that uses a gun will be the first. So too a large degree, getting a little range and firing more remains a valid option. My group has a swordsman but he's above special forces level. The Vatican's Section XIII has special agents that use bladed weapons but even with them it's an exception. For a special forces thing it's more cost effective to train men to escape using hand to hand so they can use their more effective equipment and skills. Special forces guys can train more heavily in martialk arts on their own time though. Not unlike the real world in this sense.

 

Well, this is where I meant alot of things are campaign specific. I'm sure vampires from the Underworld movies would be killed by a claymore. In my game simple lead is never enough. Assuming the vampire stays still for it, shooting one's head off with a shotgun won't kill it. It might stun the creature for a minute. But to kill it silver, fire, real sunlight, something holy would be needed. There are a very few old and/or powerful vampires in my game where could be shot to pieces by a regular 50. BMG M2HB and stand back up again in seconds, body reforming. And probably grinning. But in my game vampires are the apex predators among monsters, they are the ones who can do things that break all physical laws.

 

Exactly, as long as they have taken some sort of measures to account for close combat, even if it is martial arts to get out of holds etc (as I suggested).

 

Ok, that's fine. Now that I know that is one of your rules, I'll try to focus any further tips along those lines. Specialized weaponry isn't just extremely effective at killing these things, it is literally required by the laws of reality.

 

Worst case scenario, for nasty situations in isolated areas: Fuel-Air bomb. I've ALWAYS wanted to see one of these used in a game hehe.

[Black Omega]

Re: Supernatural Special Forces

 

Exactly' date=' as long as they have taken some sort of measures to account for close combat, even if it is martial arts to get out of holds etc (as I suggested).[/quote']It's an excellent suggestion. Any art that doesn't rely ultimately on being able to hit harder than the other guy would have some use. The Silver Beret in my game uses Aikido but there are other options.

 

Ok' date=' that's fine. Now that I know that is one of your rules, I'll try to focus any further tips along those lines. Specialized weaponry isn't just extremely effective at killing these things, it is literally required by the laws of reality.[/quote']All ideas welcome, if I can't use it someone else can. For my world normal people can rarely handle the monsters, but then the PC's aren't exactly normal. Much like some anime and action movies there is normal, highly skilled, and Name Character. General special forces fall into the highly skilled catagory for me, except where given names.

 

Worst case scenario' date=' for nasty situations in isolated areas: Fuel-Air bomb. I've ALWAYS wanted to see one of these used in a game hehe.[/quote']With what's going on in the city, one of my players mentioned either a nuke or at least a fuel air bomb might be an option for the military. It's not quite that desperate yet but getting there. And the weapon would be perfect. The heat would do a serious number on zombies and vampires...well..pretty much everything short of a demon.

 

Crosses are an excellent idea, though are not standard issue in my game for special forces because for my game the cross requires faith to work. In a game where general religious icons would work, I'd expect them to be engraved into the bodyarmor for the soldiers.

[Brother Jim]

Re: Supernatural Special Forces

 

claymores filled with silver BB's instead of steel BB's.

 

 

 

someone earlier mentioned the dragonbreath flamethrower rounds for shotguns, i don't have a link (or even remember where i read it), but you would want to use those in a double barrel NOT an auto or semi-auto. then throw it away and grab another, cause it gets the gun so hot it warps it.

 

but the super hot barrel might just be usable as "fire" damage if you've got a beasty in your face.

[JDHMorgan2003]

Re: Supernatural Special Forces

 

just a question, do all supernatural creatures fall under the heading of baddies, or is there free will even with such things as lycanthropes, or even vampires...or are they somehow required to be evil...

 

question is, would there be any point in recruiting them into your hypothetical special forces mix?

[Black Omega]

Re: Supernatural Special Forces

 

just a question, do all supernatural creatures fall under the heading of baddies, or is there free will even with such things as lycanthropes, or even vampires...or are they somehow required to be evil...

 

question is, would there be any point in recruiting them into your hypothetical special forces mix?

For my game?

 

Vampires have been hunted for centuries and are highly structured and organized for the most part. Vampires have no nationality, that is left behind when they are changed. Instead the vampire serves whoever made him. Who serves whoever is above him. Etc. Lycanthropes have issues in combat, tending to go berzerk around blood and death. We discussed this a little before the game started. Craft Users (witches) are more likely to be used in special forces since they are human and don't have the issues the monsters do.

 

So there is free will, a shifter can be a decent werewolf or an evil one. A vampire can be polite or cruel. But there are issues beyond good or evil that keep monsters out of special forces. Issues of control and reliability. The Nazi's would not have minded evil monsters serving them, but that project was stopped.

[RDU Neil]

Re: Supernatural Special Forces

 

This thread has brought up a lot of thoughts and questions I'd have that make such a game interesting.

 

Most of my thoughts and questions settle around the idea of the "Monster Ecosystem."

 

Basically... how and why do these creatures exist in the first place? Are monsters and magic part of some natural order... having evolved in some ways to fill an eco-niche? Is there some grand "intelligent design" in terms of gods or whatever that have created monsters to test humanity or simply to enact cruel games? Were monsters some kind of dimensional aberration and should not exist in our world, so are inherently "wrong" simply by existing?

 

All these questions... to me at least... would really flesh out the world and help to figure out the institutions that would develop, the agendas those institutions would have... thus the REASON why fighting the monsters has to take place... which leads to what kind of gear and tech and tactics they use.

 

For example, in one failed Vampire-like game we tried to run years ago... my character was pushing the idea that Vampires were a naturally developed response to the unchecked (no one higher on the food chain) expansion of humanity. That vampires, for all their power, were uniquely unequipped to evolve and become "more than they are" but were incredibly well suited to culling humans... thus enforcing a more sustainable ecosystem over time. Essentially they were a force of nature. Humans had to fight/resist them... but at the core it was not any more a moral issue than building earthquake resistant buildings and hiding in your basement during a hurricane. Vamps were a force of nature. This drove a lot of interesting plot elements (that never got to actually play out, because the game never went anywhere) but this thread has me thinking about that stuff again.

[FenrisUlf]

Re: Supernatural Special Forces

 

I freely admit to being behind the times when it comes to paintballing (I stopped playing in the early 90's)' date=' but TELL me this doesn't look like something a Hunter might carry....[/quote']

 

That looks like something that Rambo might carry.

 

And what about gas grenades loaded with concentrated asafoetida (I hope I'm spelling that right) for use against evil spirits?

[Black Omega]

Re: Supernatural Special Forces

 

Basically... how and why do these creatures exist in the first place? Are monsters and magic part of some natural order... having evolved in some ways to fill an eco-niche? Is there some grand "intelligent design" in terms of gods or whatever that have created monsters to test humanity or simply to enact cruel games? Were monsters some kind of dimensional aberration and should not exist in our world' date=' so are inherently "wrong" simply by existing?[/quote']Hmm...lycanthropes are the victims of a disease that is passed along by bites or claws of an existing lycanthrope. No one is quite sure there vampires come from but they are the exception. The fossil record for dragons went back pretty far. I've never decided how far, but pretty much all praeternatural beasties have a place in the natural order but there's no grand design in my game with each group having some higher purpose. Rather creatures developed based on environment. Vampires almost all to a certain degree are ruthless as a survival trait, being hunted for centuries and more. They are also highly socially developed, allowing them to often hunt without being noticed. Andthey live for centuries, so tend to play alot of power games or find other diversions. Lycanthropes have their own traditions passed down through the generations.

 

All these questions... to me at least... would really flesh out the world and help to figure out the institutions that would develop' date=' the agendas those institutions would have... thus the REASON why fighting the monsters has to take place... which leads to what kind of gear and tech and tactics they use.[/quote']The reasons whys in my game are pretty basic. Humans have always hunted down the things they eat them. The Greater European Mountain Troll tended to rip up tree trunks, bash humans with them and eat the remains. Dragons preyed on peasants and knights equally. Both are now extinct (as far as anyone knows. Rat-Squirrels were 'extinct' also). Vampires prey on humans by definition, so humans tend to shoot back. The tension is the modern age is the US trying to transition away from this state of affairs to a place where everyone lives in peace. If that is even possible.

[RDU Neil]

Re: Supernatural Special Forces

 

Coolness. Sounds like a game I'd enjoy playing in.

[Starwolf]

Re: Supernatural Special Forces

 

You could use those Forest Fire fighting aircraft and helicopters with buckets to "bomb" an area with holy water... assuming that much water could be blessed.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Supernatural Special Forces

 

You could use those Forest Fire fighting aircraft and helicopters with buckets to "bomb" an area with holy water... assuming that much water could be blessed.

 

If you like comics, check out Top Ten: The Forty Niners by Alan Moore and Gene Ha (America's Best Comics/DC) for something similar. Without spoilers, I can just say that I thought it was very cleverly done.

 

Do you remember those armored personnel carriers they had in South Africa for riot control? They had water cannons and some kind or turret-mouted automatic shotguns that fired crowd control munitions or buck shot. While I can't get behind their original intended use, could you imagine using one of those to clear out a nest of vamps with holy water and silver flechette rounds!!

[Basil]

Re: Supernatural Special Forces

 

--Skin cream infused with wolfsbane and garlic' date=' you'll smell terrible, or delicious, depending on who you ask.[/quote']

Not wolfsbane! Wolfsbane, aka Aconitum, contains a poison (aconitine) that causes skin lesions. Deadly stuff, though if spread on healthy, uncut/unabraded skin the amount absorbed is only enough to induce heart arrhythmia, shortness of breath, and dizziness.

 

None of which you want soldiers suffering from.

[Basil]

Re: Supernatural Special Forces

 

Crosses are an excellent idea' date=' though are not standard issue in my game for special forces because for my game the cross requires faith to work.[/quote']

Two questions:

 

1) Do other religious symbols work if the user believes in that religion?

 

2) How deep a faith is needed? Can anyone use a symbol, or does a "I'm a ___ because my daddy was; I go to ____ on ___day" type of belief give no benefit to the person waving the symbol?

[Black Omega]

Re: Supernatural Special Forces

 

Two questions:

 

1) Do other religious symbols work if the user believes in that religion?

Against demons, yes. Vampires no. For reasons so far undiscovered, Christianity and vampires have been deadly enemies from the first Christians on to the present day.

 

2) How deep a faith is needed? Can anyone use a symbol' date=' or does a "I'm a ___ because my daddy was; I go to ____ on ___day" type of belief give no benefit to the person waving the symbol?[/quote']It requires a real level of belief. Not true faith fanatics, necessarily. But the person can't say 'Yes, I go to church every sunday. I suppose I believe in god, I never really thought about it." When asked 'Do you believe' the answer would be 'Yes.' not 'I guess...' There are plenty of people with enough faith, it's not really a rare trait.

[Basil]

Re: Supernatural Special Forces

 

Silver, wood, and cold iron have been covered (but I want to stress the last of those). Water is enough to damage some nasties, blessed water will damage many.

 

All soldiers need lots of training in recognizing the different kinds of nasties, as well as various chants, charms, etc. that can ward off, send away, or destroy some kinds. I'm talking about charms etc. do not require "magical ability" of any kind; a few others require a bit of study, but nothing more.

 

Oh, and along that line of thought --- the outermost upper garment (call it coat, jacket, whatever) of the soldiers should be easy to remove and have a definite inside vs. outside. A surprising number of nasties (esp. but not solely Celtic fae) can be warded against or sent away by "reversing your coat".

 

Also all soldiers should have a kit of various herbs, since quite a few nasties can be dealt with by using the right plant. Also various stones, fossils, and other bits and bobs should be included. Some of which will be for treating injuries caused by certains nasties.

 

And that prompts the thought that the medics are going to need some interesting training not found in the standard medical training.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Supernatural Special Forces

 

Crosses are an excellent idea' date=' though are not standard issue in my game for special forces because for my game the cross requires faith to work. In a game where general religious icons would work, I'd expect them to be engraved into the bodyarmor for the soldiers.[/quote']I think it would be reasonable to assume that in a world where vampires and other supernatural beasties are common enough to actually rate specialized military units to combat them there would be very few atheists (Being an atheist in such a world would not be a survival trait; on the contrary it would be like wearing a "Vampires and other Ghoulies: Eat Me!" T-shirt and wandering the streets after dark). And I think it would go without saying that the military would only recruit devout believers into such units.

 

As to swords, I think it would be highly unlikely you'd have a lot of these soldiers carrying blades unless certain beasties can only be killed by blessed/silver/whatever blades. Why play to the supernaturals' strengths (superhuman speed, reflexes and strength) when a pistol is easier to carry and is far easier to use in close quarters? It would be simple enough to carry extra magazines with specialized ammo for the Critter of the Week.

[korovan]

Re: Supernatural Special Forces

 

This is a fun thread. A few thoughts:

 

Shotgun shells and other munitions could also be loaded with wooden beads (available at any hobby/craft store)...

 

If some of the monsters are "contagious", are there cures/antidotes available (for the medics to use)? Because if the PCs are fighting werewolves, you KNOW one or more are going to get bit....

 

Some demons and faeries are said to be repelled/afraid of the sound of church bells. Perhaps an MP3 player with some loud speakers would be useful.

 

ONe fun variation of this whole thread might be if the soldiers and their superiors don't "know" what all really works and what is just folklore or "well, it sounds logical" theories. If the "monster problem" has only recently become apparent then some experimentation with different methods would be necessary... and guess who gets to do the "field testing": the PCs of course! "OK, Private Pyle: here is a pouch of our new garlic-gas-grenades. Use them when your team assaults the vampire-lair in Spokane, and evaluate their effectiveness in your after-action-report. Dismissed!" heheheh

[Black Omega]

Re: Supernatural Special Forces

 

If some of the monsters are "contagious"' date=' are there cures/antidotes available (for the medics to use)? Because if the PCs are fighting werewolves, you KNOW one or more are going to get bit....[/quote']

A valid point. In my game world, the bite or claws of a lycanthrope can transmit the disease that causes lycanthrope. The dieases in question has been studied and there is an anti-virus. All PC's have had their shots.

 

Some demons and faeries are said to be repelled/afraid of the sound of church bells. Perhaps an MP3 player with some loud speakers would be useful.

Fairly campaign specific and depending on if there is any deeper significance to the chimes. If the creatures simply don't like any loud noise that reverberates like that then it's fairly easy to recreate on a broadscale, which makes things alot easier for the PC's. If there is some spiritual significance to the chimes, then a simple reproduction won't be enough to get the same effect.

 

ONe fun variation of this whole thread might be if the soldiers and their superiors don't "know" what all really works and what is just folklore or "well' date=' it sounds logical" theories. If the "monster problem" has only recently become apparent then some experimentation with different methods would be necessary... and guess who gets to do the "field testing": the PCs of course! "OK, Private Pyle: here is a pouch of our new garlic-gas-grenades. Use them when your team assaults the vampire-lair in Spokane, and evaluate their effectiveness in your after-action-report. Dismissed!" heheheh[/quote']This is not far off what my PC's found was happening in my game session this last Friday. The military had spent alot of time and money develiping and engineering a flesh eating bacteria that could destroy a zombie in minutes and yet could not survive outside a host. When the host is eaten away the bacteria dies. The military knew it worked 100% of the time against most undead, but had not had a chance to test it against vampires. Yet. The instructions the now deceased black ops unit had was test it against vampires, record the results, make sure there is no trace of the bacteria surviving outside the body, when they were done report back.

[Black Omega]

Re: Supernatural Special Forces

 

I think it would be reasonable to assume that in a world where vampires and other supernatural beasties are common enough to actually rate specialized military units to combat them there would be very few atheists (Being an atheist in such a world would not be a survival trait; on the contrary it would be like wearing a "Vampires and other Ghoulies: Eat Me!" T-shirt and wandering the streets after dark). And I think it would go without saying that the military would only recruit devout believers into such units.

Varies, really. Most faiths in my game world have a stronger, more devout following than in the real world since people can see the results of faith. But there are also plenty of skeptics who maintain it's not religion but something that should be scientifically examined.

 

I've assumed the anti-supernatural special forces are not filled with only devout believers because of the moral issues involved. In some cases devout believers aren't always suitable for missions that require things that are morally repugnant. So far the only force I've used that is all devout is with the Catholic church.

 

As to swords' date=' I think it would be highly unlikely you'd have a lot of these soldiers carrying blades unless certain beasties can only be killed by blessed/silver/whatever blades. Why play to the supernaturals' strengths (superhuman speed, reflexes and strength) when a pistol is easier to carry and is far easier to use in close quarters? It would be simple enough to carry extra magazines with specialized ammo for the Critter of the Week. [/quote']Agreed. There are specialized hunters in my game who use bladed weapons but they are far from the norm. If a special forces guy brings a bladed weapon it's very much like Hicks in Aliens. Not official issue, but..well..just in case.

[Mutant for Hire]

Re: Supernatural Special Forces

 

I think it would be reasonable to assume that in a world where vampires and other supernatural beasties are common enough to actually rate specialized military units to combat them there would be very few atheists (Being an atheist in such a world would not be a survival trait; on the contrary it would be like wearing a "Vampires and other Ghoulies: Eat Me!" T-shirt and wandering the streets after dark). And I think it would go without saying that the military would only recruit devout believers into such units.

If any religious symbol works so long as it is believed in fervently enough, then an atheist would say it is a matter of focusing one's willpower versus the supernatural creature in some fashion. In which case atheistic scientists will work out some sort of focusing system based on some artificially created symbol to allow one to channel belief in certain concepts that even secular humanists believe in against supernatural forces.

 

If there is a higher power and there is solid evidence that said power can be drawn upon and channeled, then that answers the objections of most atheists, who are not so much rabidly against the existance of God so much as being asked to believe in such a power without anything resembling hard proof.