Gps

[Lucius]

A compass - basically "Detect Magnetic North" - can be built with the Bump of Direction talent easily.

 

How about a GPS, or something else that senses not (or not just) which direction you're facing, but more or less exactly where you are on the surface of the planet?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary suspects this has been created a hundred times.

[Vanguard]

Re: Gps

 

Detect: Location on Earth, Discrimnatory, Analyze

[Dust Raven]

Re: Gps

 

Radio Perception, Only To Receive GPS Signal (-1)

[JmOz]

Re: Gps

 

Detect: Location on Earth' date=' Discrimnatory, Analyze[/quote']

 

 

I think Analyze is over kill. Discrimnatory should be good enough, assuming you can settle for the hex you are standing in...

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Gps

 

AK: Earth 27-

 

This gives you a high enough AK roll to succeed with even Extraordinary Skill Rolls on a 17-, allowing you to pinpoint your precise location whenever desired.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Gps

 

I think Analyze is over kill. Discrimnatory should be good enough' date=' assuming you can settle for the hex you are standing in...[/quote']

I agree.

 

I'd even reword it:

 

Detect Longitude/Latitude.

 

done. I'd make it a 5 point Detect. No need for even Discriminatory unless you need information about the hex you're in beyond where it is.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Gps

 

The Navigation skill, a star chart.... Oh. You mean like the electronic satellite communication kind.

[Lucius]

Re: Gps

 

Great ideas. I hadn't even thought of using Navigation skill.

 

If I recall, "Bump of Direction" is 3 pts.

 

It makes sense that "Detect Longitude + Lattitude" would be 5 pts, and may even include orientation. This would be like a GPS position - perhaps a perception roll to determine just HOW accurate it is.

 

Discriminatory would probably be accurate down to the hex, may include things like altitude relative to sea level, and may include some knowledge of the terrain or navigational type information - "Okay, we're XYZ North, ZYX East, and there's a river a couple of kilometers THAT way and a town about 5 klicks downriver...."

 

Analyze would give very detailed information - "The Weeji-Waji river is 2.1 kilometers in that direction, and the town of Podunk is downriver from there 4.5 km..."

 

 

Or, in my character's specific case, having powered armor with High Range Radio and an onboard computer, I could just buy a Navigation skill and a program for the computer and let it determine such things via radio link with a GPS satellite...

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary thinks I need to buy Absolute Time Sense and maybe Eidetic Memory and then it won't have to keep reminding me of things....

[ghost-angel]

Re: Gps

 

Great ideas. I hadn't even thought of using Navigation skill.

 

If I recall, "Bump of Direction" is 3 pts.

 

It makes sense that "Detect Longitude + Lattitude" would be 5 pts, and may even include orientation. This would be like a GPS position - perhaps a perception roll to determine just HOW accurate it is.

 

Discriminatory would probably be accurate down to the hex, may include things like altitude relative to sea level, and may include some knowledge of the terrain or navigational type information - "Okay, we're XYZ North, ZYX East, and there's a river a couple of kilometers THAT way and a town about 5 klicks downriver...."

 

Analyze would give very detailed information - "The Weeji-Waji river is 2.1 kilometers in that direction, and the town of Podunk is downriver from there 4.5 km..."

 

 

Or, in my character's specific case, having powered armor with High Range Radio and an onboard computer, I could just buy a Navigation skill and a program for the computer and let it determine such things via radio link with a GPS satellite...

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary thinks I need to buy Absolute Time Sense and maybe Eidetic Memory and then it won't have to keep reminding me of things....

Couldn't have put it better if I tried.

[Zeropoint]

Re: Gps

 

Just nit-picking here, but how would Detecting "longitude and latitude" give you any information about what was nearby?

 

Also, at the base level, wouldn't it just tell you whether there was any longitude or latitude present at your location?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Gps

 

Just nit-picking here, but how would Detecting "longitude and latitude" give you any information about what was nearby?

 

Also, at the base level, wouldn't it just tell you whether there was any longitude or latitude present at your location?

Find the Long/Lat of nearby objects compared to a Known Object Map.

 

No, it would tell you What your Long/Lat was.

 

Compare: Hearing.

 

Hearing does not have Discriminatory or Analyze at the Base Level everyone gets for free yet it's assumed that anyone growing up in the Campaign World could do something like tell the difference between a Dog and a Horse making noise. Or comparing Dogs and Dogs make a PER Roll to determine if it might be a Big Dog or a Small Dog.

 

Don't forget Detect's come with PER Rolls to do things like determine accuracy and/or compare the Input with other Know Input to see if it's been Detected Before, if Yes then give some Info on it.

[gojira]

Re: Gps

 

Zeropoint has a good point (no pun intended).

 

Just latitude and longitude do not tell you what is nearby. You need to be able to locate yourself on a map for that. Just knowing that you are east of a big city doesn't not tell you that heading due west will miss the pass.

 

Many GPSs have maps built in, but sometimes their accuracy is limited. This could be modeled by having less than skill 27 on the Area Knoledge skill. Yes, sometimes GPSs fail, even when they work. Many safety concious people augument GPSs with paper maps, sextants, dividers, and a compass, just in case.

 

Also, don't forget that many GPSs will also indicate altitude, which can be a big help if you have a topographical map.

[USAFguy]

Re: Gps

 

Note: GPS is not just Lat/Long, but also altitude--critical for many airliners. Also note: the radio signal is jammable and blocked by large objects. Granted, since there are many satellites in the constellation, one object is unlikely to block the signal totally, but it will reduce accuracy. (If you are calling in bombs, it could be important). Finally, it does not work underground/in deep valleys (see the accuracy thing). Not sure of the underwater lims, but I am sure that water blocks it between 1 or more meters of depth.

 

"Kofi"...Air Force Guy

[Dust Raven]

Re: Gps

 

Make it a Computer.

 

INT 10

DEX 10

SPD 2

 

5 GPS: Detect Global Position (detect a class of things)

3 Compass: Bump of Direction

12 Detiled World Atlas: AK: Earth 21-

 

1 Program: Determine Global Position

1 Program: Display Information

 

Total Cost: 22.

 

Real Cost...

 

2 GPS Device: Computer (Base Points 22), OAF

[Lucius]

Re: Gps

 

Just nit-picking here, but how would Detecting "longitude and latitude" give you any information about what was nearby?

 

Also, at the base level, wouldn't it just tell you whether there was any longitude or latitude present at your location?

 

By that reasoning, Absolute Time Sense shouldn’t give you anything but an impression that time is, in fact, passing.

 

So just what WOULD you say Discriminatory and Analyze would give you?

 

Make it a Computer.

 

My character already HAS a computer built into his battlesuit. I’m just thinking of adding this capability to it, next time I have a chance to upgrade.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Detect palindromedary, Discriminatory, Analyze, Targetting…..hey, the palindromedary ate my character sheet!

[prestidigitator]

Re: Gps

 

Make it a Computer.

...

Good build. I'd rep ya for it if I could.

[Checkmate]

Re: Gps

 

Not sure of the underwater lims, but I am sure that water blocks it between 1 or more meters of depth.

 

"Kofi"...Air Force Guy

Radio Waves don't travel underwater

 

"Radioman...Navy Guy"

 

P.S.

Before someone calls me a liar, I'll amend and say radio waves travel VERY poorly underwater, and then only VLF and ULF, but for those you need HUGE antennas.

[Zeropoint]

Re: Gps

 

For all practical purposes, water is radio opaque (at least if you have more than a little bit of it).

[USAFguy]

Re: Gps

 

Radio Waves don't travel underwater

 

"Radioman...Navy Guy"

 

P.S.

Before someone calls me a liar, I'll amend and say radio waves travel VERY poorly underwater, and then only VLF and ULF, but for those you need HUGE antennas.

 

Copy Navy Guy,

I would never call a radioman a liar, especially when he qualified it with the "VERY poorly" comment. For those of you with satellite TV, you know that water/rain/snow also degrades the signal. Satellites tend to the high/superhigh/extremely high freqs, so they and are sensitive to water. I'll stop before we get classified, but suffice it to say that aircraft (and flying characters) tend to get pretty clear reception.

 

Kofi--air force guy.

[Checkmate]

Re: Gps

 

 

Copy Navy Guy,

I would never call a radioman a liar, especially when he qualified it with the "VERY poorly" comment. For those of you with satellite TV, you know that water/rain/snow also degrades the signal. Satellites tend to the high/superhigh/extremely high freqs, so they and are sensitive to water. I'll stop before we get classified, but suffice it to say that aircraft (and flying characters) tend to get pretty clear reception.

 

Kofi--air force guy.

Actually to get really technical, carrier waves from a satelite are Microwaves. I'm sure everyone knows what happens when a microwave hits water...I loses energy. Which is why rain degrades the signal, and is impossible through water.

[Tech]

Make GPS cost high

 

Curiousity has got the best of me right now: what's the most expensive way you could design GPS? Hmmmm?

[StGrimblefig]

Re: Gps

 

 

Copy Navy Guy,

I would never call a radioman a liar, especially when he qualified it with the "VERY poorly" comment. For those of you with satellite TV, you know that water/rain/snow also degrades the signal. Satellites tend to the high/superhigh/extremely high freqs, so they and are sensitive to water. I'll stop before we get classified, but suffice it to say that aircraft (and flying characters) tend to get pretty clear reception.

 

Kofi--air force guy.

This is compounded by the fact that the GPS signal has a power level below that of background noise. The GPS receivers have to play math games to pull the signal out of the noise. GPS is not receivable underwater at any meaningful depth. Now if you have a floating antenna with a long cable . . . you get the position of the antenna.

 

*Wrote software for GPS receivers for ~5 years*

[StGrimblefig]

Re: Gps

 

 

Make it a Computer.

 

INT 10

DEX 10

SPD 2

 

5 GPS: Detect Global Position (detect a class of things)

3 Compass: Bump of Direction

12 Detiled World Atlas: AK: Earth 21-

 

1 Program: Determine Global Position

1 Program: Display Information

 

Total Cost: 22.

 

Real Cost...

 

2 GPS Device: Computer (Base Points 22), OAF

This is, imho, the right way to do it.

 

All GPS receivers are basically a computer with 2 main components:

 

1. The GPS "sensor" that does nothing but determine current position (detect position on the earth)
   
2. Software to do something with that information (Navigation skill, probably also AK Earth, but more likely a more limited map module of a smaller area)
   

 

 

Note that the GPS sensor cannot determine a compass heading by itself (unless a separate compass sensor is included, as above). If the receiver is moving, the software can compare its last position with its current position to determine what direction it is moving.

 

Note also that, internally, the GPS sensor represents your position as an x,y,z coordinate with its origin at the center of the earth (what is called Earth Centered Earth Fixed, or ECEF coordinates). The lat/long/alt that you see displayed on the screen is just a conversion from that. It could just as easily display MGRS.

 

Isn't Bump of Direction as a Talent merely a "small Power?" Would it be better to use the Power definition here as opposed to the Talent?

 

There should probably be some kind of limitation(s) on the GPS sensor to show that it cannot track satellites underwater, and that the position solution will degrade if the receiver does not have a clear view of the sky. I am not sure if a single limitation would cover it, or if two separate ones are needed.

 

*Wrote software for GPS receivers for ~5 years*

[prestidigitator]

Re: Gps

 

One thing a GPS unit could easily have in it is software to determine true north given compass input and position determined from the GPS. Doesn't sound like much, but it's an awfully handy little feature.

[gojira]

Re: Gps

 

The computer build above is pretty good. You might want to add "real equipment" or equivalent to the build. One objection to GPSs in the boating community is that they tend to break, the batteries run out, they get dropped overboard, etc. just when you need them most.