Lose Weakness

[BobGreenwade]

So I'm thinking about an ability that would stop all bonuses for Find Weakness. Basically if X uses Find Weakness on Y and starts getting through Y's defenses, then Y can use this ability to stop X from getting through so easily.

 

My first inclination is Dispel Find Weakness, but I'd like to see if someone has a more elegant or "to the point" solution.

[The Souljourner]

Re: Lose Weakness

 

Lack of weakness, instant (if appropriate), costs END?

 

Call the power "Suck it in"

[incrdbil]

Re: Lose Weakness

 

Dispel Find Weakness--hmmm, well, if you view the effect of find weakness as a constant power..it has appeal.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Lose Weakness

 

Dispel Find Weakness--hmmm' date=' well, if you view the effect of find weakness as a constant power..it has appeal.[/quote']

 

You could say that the Dispel shuts down the particular use of Find Weakness that first penetrated the target's Defenses, so that the attacker would have to Find Weakness all over again. Suppress Find Weakness would work constantly, though.

 

How about Invisibility to Find Weakness? Buy Invisibility to an entire Targeting Sense Group, and say that it applies only to Find Weakness no matter what Sense it's based on.

[John Desmarais]

Re: Lose Weakness

 

So I'm thinking about an ability that would stop all bonuses for Find Weakness. Basically if X uses Find Weakness on Y and starts getting through Y's defenses, then Y can use this ability to stop X from getting through so easily.

 

My first inclination is Dispel Find Weakness, but I'd like to see if someone has a more elegant or "to the point" solution.

 

Extra DEF (equal to the full DEF of the character), limitation "only if character knows he's been Find Weaknessed" (-1), limitation "Only to bring DEF effectiveness back up to full" (-1/2). You could also add a skill roll or an activation roll to it to reflect that's it's an active thought on the character's part that may or may not work.

[incrdbil]

Re: Lose Weakness

 

You could say that the Dispel shuts down the particular use of Find Weakness that first penetrated the target's Defenses, so that the attacker would have to Find Weakness all over again. Suppress Find Weakness would work constantly, though.

 

How about Invisibility to Find Weakness? Buy Invisibility to an entire Targeting Sense Group, and say that it applies only to Find Weakness no matter what Sense it's based on.

 

 

Of course, every one of these abilities costs far more than just buying enough lack of weakness to make FW impossible

 

Delayed effect lack of weakness? Nah, wouldn't work without some major tweaking to reflect correcting or negating a weakness. I liek the idea of whatever power build is chosen requiring a RSR contest between the two individuals, as your abiility to correct your combat style or mask or hide your weakness is pitted against the opposing character's FW.

[Checkmate]

Re: Lose Weakness

 

Extra DEF (equal to the full DEF of the character)' date=' limitation "only if character knows he's been Find Weaknessed" (-1), limitation "Only to bring DEF effectiveness back up to full" (-1/2). You could also add a skill roll or an activation roll to it to reflect that's it's an active thought on the character's part that may or may not work.[/quote']

For the win.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Lose Weakness

 

Of course' date=' every one of these abilities costs far more than just buying enough lack of weakness to make FW impossible [/quote']Yeah, that's the real bear of it. That point alone may render any other option unfeasable.

 

John's "extra DEF" solution is my second choice.

[incrdbil]

Re: Lose Weakness

 

Yeah' date=' that's the [i']real[/i] bear of it. That point alone may render any other option unfeasable.

 

John's "extra DEF" solution is my second choice.

 

Well, as a house rule, you could say that Lack of weakness bought with a delayed effect limitation, and a activation time, perhaps requiring a skill roll forces a new FW roll to maintain the weakness--since full time LoW is worth X points, a limited form that still allows a FW to work until a later point--and still allows it to re-roll the chance should cost less. Heck, with those limitations, we're talking dirt cheap.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Lose Weakness

 

How about just buying Lack of Weakness, and applying a Limitation that it doesn't prevent the first attack after a Find Weakness attempt from working against half defenses?

 

This would be kinda like buying DEF with the Limitation "Always Lets The First BODY Through" or some such thing. In this case, it always lets the attacker get one chance to use the FW if they rolled successfully, but then it kicks in "retroactively".

[prestidigitator]

Re: Lose Weakness

 

How about:

Damage Reduction: 200% (equivalent of 50%) vs. Find Weakness

Instead of Physical, Energy, or Mental....

[Silbeg]

Re: Lose Weakness

 

Ok, for the "power build"?

 

17 Unfound Weaknesses: Shape Shift (Sight, Hearing and Touch Groups), Instant Change, Costs END Only To Change Shape (+1/4) (26 Active Points); Only to Remove Found Weaknesses (-1/2) - 2 END

 

Per 5ER 175 - Shape Shift will neutralize found weaknesses, as would multiform.

 

 

I like it!

[John Desmarais]

Re: Lose Weakness

 

Ok, for the "power build"?

 

17 Unfound Weaknesses: Shape Shift (Sight, Hearing and Touch Groups), Instant Change, Costs END Only To Change Shape (+1/4) (26 Active Points); Only to Remove Found Weaknesses (-1/2) - 2 END

 

Per 5ER 175 - Shape Shift will neutralize found weaknesses, as would multiform.

 

 

I like it!

 

I'm not sure why, but for some reason I wouldn't want to use this (probably just an inability to get past a deep seated "shape shift is for doing....").

 

You are correct though, Shape Shift does indeed nullify Find Weakness.

[incrdbil]

Re: Lose Weakness

 

Ok, for the "power build"?

 

17 Unfound Weaknesses: Shape Shift (Sight, Hearing and Touch Groups), Instant Change, Costs END Only To Change Shape (+1/4) (26 Active Points); Only to Remove Found Weaknesses (-1/2) - 2 END

 

Per 5ER 175 - Shape Shift will neutralize found weaknesses, as would multiform.

 

 

 

Unless the FW effect is based on hearing or touch, wouldn't sight alone do it?

 

Also, only to remove Found weakness would seen to bea limit value of -2, or 1 1/2.

[John Desmarais]

Re: Lose Weakness

 

Unless the FW effect is based on hearing or touch, wouldn't sight alone do it?

 

Also, only to remove Found weakness would seen to bea limit value of -2, or 1 1/2.

 

Actually, I'm not sure I would give it any limitation value at all. At its base level (which this) Shape Shift lets you transform from for base shape to one other. In this case, the "other" is "a shape that doesn't have the same weak spots as the base shape". To me, this doesn't seem to be restrictive in any way at all relative to the normal use of the power.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Lose Weakness

 

Ok, for the "power build"?

 

17 Unfound Weaknesses: Shape Shift (Sight, Hearing and Touch Groups), Instant Change, Costs END Only To Change Shape (+1/4) (26 Active Points); Only to Remove Found Weaknesses (-1/2) - 2 END

 

Per 5ER 175 - Shape Shift will neutralize found weaknesses, as would multiform.

Give the man a kewpie doll. This will be the basis for the ability; we just have to fine-tune it.

[incrdbil]

Re: Lose Weakness

 

Actually' date=' I'm not sure I would give it any limitation value at all. At its base level (which this) Shape Shift lets you transform from for base shape to one other. In this case, the "other" is "a shape that doesn't have the same weak spots as the base shape". To me, this doesn't seem to be restrictive in any way at all relative to the normal use of the power.[/quote']

 

Well, compared to what you can do with normal shapeshifting, (futzing with find weakness and a new form), just losing the FW seems to be pretty significant. Maybe a -1?. Since Finfd Weakness is realtively rare, and the limitation takes away thefull use of shape change, 1/2 just didnt seem enough of a limit.

 

Of course, this change only protects you once. a FW roll against the new form nails you, as you only have two forms. So I guess you buy more forms

[prestidigitator]

Re: Lose Weakness

 

Of course' date=' this change only protects you once. a FW roll against the new form nails you, as you only have two forms. So I guess you buy more forms [/quote']

Right. What you really want is an infinite variety of related forms, so that as they keep using Find Weakness, you can keep countering it. Even better: make the Shapeshift 0 End and give it an automatically resetting Trigger so that it continually varies your form before you are attacked (or at the very least give it some kind of linked Enhanced Sense that can detect when Find Weakness has been used on you...).

[radioKAOS]

Re: Lose Weakness

 

Right. What you really want is an infinite variety of related forms' date=' so that as they keep using Find Weakness, you can keep countering it. Even better: make the Shapeshift 0 End and give it an automatically resetting Trigger so that it continually varies your form before you are attacked (or at the very least give it some kind of linked Enhanced Sense that can detect when Find Weakness has been used on you...). [/quote']

 

So buy a VPP with -Only for Multiform?

[prestidigitator]

Re: Lose Weakness

 

So buy a VPP with -Only for Multiform?

No. Shapeshift has a built-in mechanism for exapanding the set of target forms. See the Adders on 5ER p. 216.

[pinecone]

Re: Lose Weakness

 

Well, compared to what you can do with normal shapeshifting, (futzing with find weakness and a new form), just losing the FW seems to be pretty significant. Maybe a -1?. Since Finfd Weakness is realtively rare, and the limitation takes away thefull use of shape change, 1/2 just didnt seem enough of a limit.

 

Of course, this change only protects you once. a FW roll against the new form nails you, as you only have two forms. So I guess you buy more forms

Nahh...the second form has Lack of W (15)... "Fool! you have activated my studly form!"

[Dust Raven]

Re: Lose Weakness

 

What's the SFX of this now? Or are we working just on theory?

 

Anyway, my nickle is going for Change Environment. Penalty to Find Weakness, No Range, Self Only kinda thing. Whenver it's activated, any character that had previously made (and is currently maintaining) a successful Find Weakness roll against the character is forced to reroll. If successful, nothing happens. If it's failed, all Find Weakness bonuses end immediately. In any case, all successive Find Weakness rolls against the character must be made using the penalty (until it's turned off).

[prestidigitator]

Re: Lose Weakness

 

What's the SFX of this now? Or are we working just on theory?

 

Anyway, my nickle is going for Change Environment. Penalty to Find Weakness, No Range, Self Only kinda thing. Whenver it's activated, any character that had previously made (and is currently maintaining) a successful Find Weakness roll against the character is forced to reroll. If successful, nothing happens. If it's failed, all Find Weakness bonuses end immediately. In any case, all successive Find Weakness rolls against the character must be made using the penalty (until it's turned off).

That's a good one too.

[radioKAOS]

Re: Lose Weakness

 

What's the SFX of this now? Or are we working just on theory?

 

Anyway, my nickle is going for Change Environment. Penalty to Find Weakness, No Range, Self Only kinda thing. Whenver it's activated, any character that had previously made (and is currently maintaining) a successful Find Weakness roll against the character is forced to reroll. If successful, nothing happens. If it's failed, all Find Weakness bonuses end immediately. In any case, all successive Find Weakness rolls against the character must be made using the penalty (until it's turned off).

 

That's worth my nickel.

[Silbeg]

Re: Lose Weakness

 

Unless the FW effect is based on hearing or touch' date=' wouldn't sight alone do it?[/quote']

 

Sure, if that is how it is defined. I am kind of thinking, though, that Find Weakness isn't affected as a specific Sense Group. Thus, I figured that at least hearing and touch would be appropriate.

 

Also' date=' only to remove Found weakness would seen to bea limit value of -2, or 1 1/2.[/quote']

 

Well, based on precendence of "Only vs XXX" on defenses being a -1/2, I figured that this would be appropriate.

 

Also note that my build would only break the Find Weakness once, since the adder for multiple forms wasn't included.