Alternate SPD Chart

[Dust Raven]

Every so often here I see alternate SPD charts things. The one I'm remembering now is the one where, instead of a chart, all players roll Xd12, where X is their SPD, and those are the segments they act on. I'm wondering who all has used this method and how well it has worked for them. Also, I'd like to know how different it made combat feel in their games and in what ways it was different.

 

I've always just used the existing SPD chart which has worked fine. I'm not really looking for a change in my game right now; this is just a mild curiosity. If it looks like it might be a good change, or something my players would like, I might suggest it to them. Right now I'm just looking for more information about how it affects the play of the game and the feel of combat.

 

Thanks!

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Alternate SPD Chart

 

While I also love the Speed Chart, I've played in games that used a method kind of like what you describe. I don't think you have it quite right, though. If your speed is 6 and you roll 6d12, that's potentially 72 Segments.

 

You may be thinking of another common alternate method, in which each player rolls 1d12 every Segment and compares the total to their SPD; if they roll their SPD or lower they get an Action Phase that Segment. What this brings to the table is, of course, unpredictability in the order of player actions, which some players prefer to the ordered Speed Chart method; while still making the points invested in SPD valuable. I found this to work pretty well. While you might think that an extra die roll would slow things down, eliminating consulting the Speed Chart more or less balances the time required once everyone is used to rolling.

 

There are a few things you need to deal with to translate some of the standard mechanics, though. One of these is how to handle Aborting and Held Actions. For our group the motto was, "keep rolling." If we Aborted we automatically got to act without rolling the d12, but then the next Segment you succeed in your roll is used to pay for that Abort, so you don't get a Phase on that Segment. For Held Actions the player Holding would roll d12 on a Segment that they decided to act; if they chose to use their Held Action on a Segment where the roll succeeded, they didn't get to roll on the next Segment.

 

Another issue is post-Segment 12 Recoveries. In our game everyone got one of those who rolled a "natural" 12. I say "natural 12" because of another adjustment to the die roll that we found necessary. Due to the vagaries of random chance, someone could keep getting bad die rolls Segment after Segment and never get to act, especially if their SPD is relatively low. If a player blew a d12 roll on one Segment they got to add +1 to their roll on the next Segment, cumulatively, until they succeeded. After that the roll would reset to their raw SPD again.

 

BTW the "post-Segment 12" and "+1 to roll" ideas came from the article I first saw this method described in, by Steve Peterson in Adventurers Club.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Alternate SPD Chart

 

While I also love the Speed Chart' date=' I've played in games that used a method kind of like what you describe. I don't think you have it quite right, though. If your speed is 6 and you roll 6d12, that's potentially 72 Segments. [/quote']

 

Oh no, not totalling the dice. Each die tells which segment a phase can be made on. For example, if you had a SPD of 6, you'd roll 6d12, and suppose you roll 2, 4, 5, 10, 11 and 11. These would be the segments in the standard 12 segment Turn your character would act. In the case of segment 11, you'd get to take two actions (this is one of the things I'm not sure how to adjucate).

 

I'm also familiar with the roll 1d12 each segment to see if you have a Phase, but I don't like it at all. It's far too random. A character should have an idea of when he can act with more than RIGHT NOW notice. There's the thing concerning post 12 recoveries, but you seem to have a workable method of dealing with that, though it's still far too random. You can't even take a normal Recovery during the turn without any notice. No, I don't like it at all.

 

Are there any other methods of "eliminating" or modifying the SPD chart to change how and when actions are taken? I'm exploring here. There might be an alternative method I like better than the official method.

[Hierax]

Re: Alternate SPD Chart

 

Phase Shift BODY Pip Method

 

Each "Side" rolls a single HERO d6 (the custom black and green ones with the normal numbers and the nice BODY pips on them 1=0 pips, 2-5=1 pip, 6=2 pips).

 

Compare the BODY pips and subtract one from the other and shift the phases that actions occur on by that much.

• Most often this won't be anything 1-1=0,
  
• but sometimes it'll be 2-1=1 or 1-0=1 so make one side shift their phases up by one or the other side down by one,
  
• and even rarer will be 2-0=2.

FWIW, I'll going to set up some sort of "GM Screen Slider" or "Combat Wheel" thing to try this out sometime (numbers show through the cut-out areas like the old AD&D and the new HackMaster Combat Wheels).

 

I hope that that makes sense, it's easier to do than to explain.

 

Note that since the results will most often be =0 anyway this isn't as big of a deal as it sounds, it's just enough to keep people from counting on when they go relative to the other side -- it's just a keep you on your toes for the occassional phase shift. If and when you want to shake things up a bit but not too much too often.

 

You can use it as often or as seldom as you want and a "Side" could be as many as each individual character or as few as the PCs and the other characters.

[Hierax]

Re: Alternate SPD Chart

 

Oh yeah, alternately, In a previous thread like this I mentioned rolling a d12 for each SPD that a Character has and acting on those Phases.

 

Again you can bother to roll this as often or as seldom as you prefer.

 

Variety is the spice of life but a meal of all spices and no meat isn't very satisfying either, just find your own balance.

[SuperKlaus]

Re: Alternate SPD Chart

 

Give each player a suit of playing cards and have them shuffle and draw cards equal to SPD. Count down from Ace, or up from 2 if you're some kind of freak. It's got all the potential troubles of randomizing SPD, sure, and there's one more card than twelve in a suit, but I used it all this last year in a game I ran and it worked well. Players respond well to the thrill of drawing face cards and aces. The only caveat is that you might want to enlist the PC's help in drawing for your villains or you might find yourself wasting precious time drawing Villain 5's Phases while they all sit and watch.

 

No trouble with Aborting and Held Actions or nothing!

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Alternate SPD Chart

 

Give each player a suit of playing cards and have them shuffle and draw cards equal to SPD. Count down from Ace, or up from 2 if you're some kind of freak. It's got all the potential troubles of randomizing SPD, sure, and there's one more card than twelve in a suit, but I used it all this last year in a game I ran and it worked well. Players respond well to the thrill of drawing face cards and aces. The only caveat is that you might want to enlist the PC's help in drawing for your villains or you might find yourself wasting precious time drawing Villain 5's Phases while they all sit and watch.

 

No trouble with Aborting and Held Actions or nothing!

 

A variation on this that I've considered is to shuffle one or more decks of cards, and the GM turns a card up. Whatever card comes up, anyone who would act on that segment moves. A - 10 = 1-10; J = 11, Q = 12 and K = PS 12. This provides considerable randomization of the chart, but keeps all the 5 SPD's moving together (whether one likes or dislikes that combination is, of course, determinative of whether this is a desirable approach).

[prestidigitator]

Re: Alternate SPD Chart

 

I came up with a period-based Speed system a while back (with minor randomness thrown in). Maybe I'll do a few searches and try to find it.

[Hierax]

Re: Alternate SPD Chart

 

FYI, here's some similar topics from the old HERO Message Boards:

Need a new way to handle Speed:

http://www.herogames.com/oldForum/GameRelated/000227.html

 

Speed Table Alternatives:

http://www.herogames.com/oldForum/GameRelated/000200.html

Suggestions for Alternate Speed Chart

http://www.herogames.com/oldForum/HeroSystemDiscussion/000907.html

[Erkenfresh]

Re: Alternate SPD Chart

 

I like the cards idea where you count down from Ace to 2, but I'd just go ahead and remove the 2's so you've got 12 cards per suit. So, the players draw and have hands and get to play their cards when their turn comes up. They're all poker fans so that would catch on quick. I'd probably make them redraw if they get duplicates to avoid "double actions" though.

[ideasmith]

Re: Alternate SPD Chart

 

A house rule I am considering is:

 

All characters must have a SPEED rating of either 2 or 4. PC's need special GM permission to have a SPEED of 2.

[Richard Logue]

Re: Alternate SPD Chart

 

This is what we've come up with at home.... Action Cards (ala Deadlands)

 

Each player has his own deck of normal playing cards (complete with jokers), minus the kings. The GM has a double deck (sans jokers and kings) because he is likely running several NPC's. Decks are reshuffled after each Turn.

 

Combats no longer start on Segment 12 and then go to an immediate post-12 Recovery. Instead, they simply begin. At the beginning of each 12-second Turn, the players all draw cards from their respective decks equal to their character's Speed. These, obviously, represent how many actions the PC has during the Turn.

 

Jokers are wild cards that can help or hinder. If a player pulls a red joker, he has two choices. He can either pull an additional card from his deck for an extra action that Turn, or he can opt to gain a +2 DCV or OCV, his choice, throughout the Turn. Red jokers are beneficial. Black jokers, on the other hand, can be the bane of a well-thought out strategy. Pulling the black joker also requires a choice. The player can either throw the joker away, thusly losing an action, or he can opt to suffer a -2 to OCV or DCV for the length of the Turn.

 

At this point, the GM begins counting off cards from Queen down to Ace. The suits won't matter. Jokers are “wild†and can be considered any value and can even trump a Queen. Whenever a card you're holding is called out, you have an action. If you have an action at the same time as an opponent, the higher Dex (plus Lightning Reflexes, of course) breaks the initiative tie. If it is still tied, compare INT.

 

In addition, you can use unspent action cards to beat initiative, or go earlier in the Turn. To beat an opponent's initiative during the current action, spend (discard) one card. To act during an action that you wouldn't be going in normally, spend two cards. Note that if you bid your two actions to do that, normal initiative still applies.

 

Players drawing more than one card of the same value will be making multiple actions during that Phase. In a case where multiple players have more than one card for a given value, the many actions will be cycled through in initiative order. For example: Pete has a 23 initiative and draws 2 jacks while Dan has a 21 initiative and draws one jack. Cycling through the actions, Pete will spend one first since he had the higher initiative, then Dan will use his, and lastly Pete again for his final action.

 

During an action Phase, players (and the GM) can "bid" up to three unspent action cards to gain bonuses to whatever it is they are trying to accomplish. If you bid an unspent card in this way, you discard that card. Of course, you lose an action for the Turn, but you improve your chances of succeeding in the current action. You choose one of several ways to benefit from a bid action card.

· +2 OCV.

· +1 DCV.

· +1 DC.

· +1d6 STR vs. Entangles and Grabs.

· +3 to a Skill or Characteristics Roll

 

Action bidding confers an additional bonus. If you combine one or two unspent action cards onto an action, you get a "panel," as in a panel in a comic book. A panel is worth an additional .1 xp at the end of the scenario. If you bid three of your cards from onto one action, you get a "splash page" which is worth an additional .3 xp. XP is rounded down when it is awarded.

 

Recoveries. You can take a recovery on any action card when its called. As long as the you weren't or aren't interrupted during that card, the recovery works.

 

Flash. Flash affects a number of called cards (Segments), not a number of actions. So, a character Flashed on Queen for five cards will suffer the effects of Flash during Queen, Jack, Ten, Nine, and Eight. This is regardless of whether or not he has those particular cards to perform actions with.

 

Aborts. Aborting to a defensive maneuver such as Dodge costs your next highest action card.

 

END Expenditure. Some Powers, such as defensive Powers, spend END over the course of a Turn. It can become confusing once action cards become combined how much END is being used. For most instances, figure out the total END that a Power used during the Turn and apply it at the end of the Turn before the Post-12 Recovery. Note that overspent END comes out of STUN as per the normal rules.

 

 

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Alternate SPD Chart

 

Oh no' date=' not totalling the dice. Each die tells which segment a phase can be made on. For example, if you had a SPD of 6, you'd roll 6d12, and suppose you roll 2, 4, 5, 10, 11 and 11. These would be the segments in the standard 12 segment Turn your character would act. In the case of segment 11, you'd get to take two actions (this is one of the things I'm not sure how to adjucate).[/quote']

 

Could say that if roll duplicates, bump one to the next available segment down. If all later segments occupied, bump up until get to a free segment.

 

So for the example roll above (2, 4, 5, 10, 11, 11) it would end up as 2/4/5/10/11/12 as the second 11 gets bumped to seg 12.

 

A SPD 6 that rolls six sixes (6/6/6/6/6/6) would wind up with phases on 6/7/8/9/10/11.

 

Alternatively to the bump up part, you could wrap around back to seg one, so a person with three 12s would go on 1/2/12.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Alternate SPD Chart

 

A house rule I am considering is:

 

All characters must have a SPEED rating of either 2 or 4. PC's need special GM permission to have a SPEED of 2.

I'm assuming you play Heroic games mostly. But just out of idle curiosity, why?

[ideasmith]

Re: Alternate SPD Chart

 

I'm assuming you play Heroic games mostly. But just out of idle curiosity' date=' why?[/quote']

 

No, mostly Superheroic. The change would make keeping track of who goes when much easier.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Alternate SPD Chart

 

I just had an interesting thought, both for something to do and also for a twist to this thread. I'm currently running a Mystic World Champions game that involves the heroes traveling throughout realms of the Astral Plane. What I'm currently thinking of is using an alternate to the standard SPD Chart for each significenlty different realm. The idea is to demonstrate, in some wacked out way, how some of the physical laws operate differently in such places.

 

Any suggestions for what method to use for specific realms?

[prestidigitator]

Re: Alternate SPD Chart

 

How about planes of abstract thought in which the character's Int is used instead of Dex for Speed and initiative (for Speed, take the number of character points actually spent after tha base 1+Dex/10 and add them to 1+Int/10)?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Alternate SPD Chart

 

I've touted the "deck of cards" approach someone once suggested a few times. Shuffle a standard deck (no jockers). The GM flips up one card at a time. Whatever card comes up, it's that phase. A-10 = 1-10, J=11, Q=12, K=PS 12.

 

I've generally thought this would make an excellent SPD approach for a realm of chaos - pure random chance as to who gets to go next/time is disconnected.

[BNakagawa]

Re: Alternate SPD Chart

 

This is a method I like.

 

Get a bunch of card protectors with the same opaque backs.

 

Take a number of cards and write the names of characters and villains on them. One per speed point. If you have a 6 speed, write your name on 6 cards.

 

Collect all the cards and shuffle them.

 

Turn them over one at a time. When you're done with the deck, everyone gets a post 12 recovery.

 

It forces everyone who still has actions left to pay attention.