x3

[red_eagle123]

Re: x3

 

Now see, I have to disagree. I saw the movie yesterday and, while I don't think it sucked as bad as the Hulk, wasn't the greatest movie. It was merely passable to me.

 

The multi-layered plot felt way too scattered for me. And what was the purpose of having Jean there at the end anyhow? Her little freakout session didn't do anything towards the main plot, other than to show how bad@$$ she was with her powers and how bad@$$ Wolvie is with those claws and that healing of his.

 

IMO they could have cut the Jean story, or at least changed it so there were two threats going on at the same time, instead of Jean standing around staring till everyone else is defeated, battles over, yay! Oh wait, Jean has to do something now.

 

As for other bits, they did do a good with Kitty, and with Iceman. I would hav e liked to have seen more of Piotr.

 

I'm also not fond of how they killed off a bunch of the cast. As someone else pointed out, why they took Kitty and and Iceman into the deathzone and left behind a bunch of the other students doesn't make much sense. But then those are the only ones (outside of Siryn) we saw with any real powers so....

 

As I said, overall it was okay. I'd give it 3 to 3 1/2 stars out of 5

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: x3

 

Actually' date=' I thought it made perfect sense given Magneto's portrayal in the films. He's a mutant racist; he identifies with and relates only with fellow mutants. [/quote']

 

Yep. I thought the fact that in the first movie Magneto was trying to do, turn them into us, is what he is fighting against in the third movie, when the positions are reveresed. A nice sense of symmetry and irony.

[Manic Typist]

Re: x3

 

I loved it.

 

A few points:

Only a very small number of the students have been told of the secret of the X-Men, and allowed to join and train. Afterall, you can't go around just recruiting children for your army, willy-nilly.

 

Using the "cure" preemptively on the prisoners would have been the same as putting a bullet through their heads. I can easily see the "cure" being treated as a capital punishment for mutants. You know, they could take life in prision, a needle in the veins, or the "cure."

 

If you don't see the body, you don't know their dead. So, Cyclops could be back.

 

If Jean had attacked simultaneously with Magneto's forces, the X-men would have flat out lost. Besides, maybe Magneto wanted her held in reserve as a secret weapon against the rest of the world, or he was afraid of her unpredictability.

 

 

Anyway. I like the fact that they are only focusing on a few students so far. They have introduced a "new" one to the team: Kitty. Maybe in the next movie there will be another, and so on. It will allow us to get involved in the characters individually and still have "fresh blood" introduced on a regular basis.

 

 

Most important: you cannot go into these movies demanding that you see the comic books on the silverscreen. That cannot and will not happen. To be frank, achieving the comics' effect is impossible, for several reasons. Merely look at these movies using ELEMENTS from your familiar stories, and paying homage where it can. This is something new, so please don't expect it to be "canon."

[Korvar]

Re: x3

 

The only thing I really wish they'd done is shown the "Phoenix Effect" giant glowing bird when Jean Grey was going nuts at the end. That woulda been cool.

 

I felt like they were teasing that the whole way through - the makeup they gave her as she went nuts seemed to look like she was burning from the inside, like at any moment she might suddenly burst into bird-shaped flames...

[Stone]

Re: x3

 

Most important: you cannot go into these movies demanding that you see the comic books on the silverscreen. That cannot and will not happen. To be frank' date=' achieving the comics' effect is impossible, for several reasons. Merely look at these movies using ELEMENTS from your familiar stories, and paying homage where it can. This is something new, so please don't expect it to be "canon."[/quote']

 

**** Spoilers ****

 

 

I agree that you cannot expect to see the comic book on the big screen, but I do expect at least the main part of the storyline. This should've been titled Wolverine 3 co-staring the Xmen. How much more could they have gimped Cyclops in these movies? He's a founder member and leader of the team and was turned into an unimportant secondary character...and then to kill him off in the manor they did (not in a heroic manner, hell not even on screen) is simply wrong. He played a major role in the Dark Phoenix story line. I understand Wolverine is one of (if not the) Marvel's star characters, but to totally ignore the original story to the extent the movies (especially this one) do is a slap in the face to the original writers and the fans.

[Snake Gandhi]

Re: x3

 

How much more could they have gimped Cyclops in these movies?

Well, seeing as how James took a bit part in Singer's Superman, some of the Fox exec's though that they should teach him a lesson.

 

No seriously, thats why. They where originally going to drop him from the film entirely, but IIR Ratner said he needed him, but his part would be smaller.

[sinanju]

Re: x3

 

SPOILERS HO--DON'T READ THIS IF YOU'RE WORRIED ABOUT SPOILERS

 

Views and opinions about the film

 

1. Angel--a pointless character. A guy with wings. Not exactly "A Team" material at his best. His only real purpose is to show a conflict with his father and to save his dad at the end. He could easily have been left out of the film, and should have been.

 

2. Yes, Magneto is behaving very much like the Nazis he hates. That's his tragic flaw; despite starting out allied with Xavier, he turned into the very sort of person he wants to save the mutants from.

 

3. Injecting captured mutants with the "cure" is NOTHING Like summary execution. They're still alive, still have their own personalities and memories--they're simply contained, no longer a threat to others. I think there's a strong case for arguing that it is a reasonable approach to imprisoning them; the only practical alternative in too many cases would BE to kill them out of hand. They TRIED holding Magneto in the last film--we all saw how well that worked.

 

4. This being a comic book movie, yes, none of the X-Men is incontrovertibly dead. We saw Xavier's failsafe (after the credits). We never saw Scott die (though Jean's pain over killing him is powerful evidence that she did, in fact, kill him). And as for Jean...she's the PHOENIX. Do the math.

 

5. The Phoenix storyline was disappointing. Jean really should have been THE villain of the piece, even if it wasn't her choice. Power corrupts.... How about the X-Men allying with Magneto to stop Jean from destroying a city or the world? Save the "mutant cure" for the next film. Instead of retroactively revealing that Xavier had put mental blocks in her brain, she simply acquired phenomenally greater power with her resurrection. Maybe part of the plot is that Charles TRIES to damp down her power to manageable levels--and only when/if that fails do they conclude that she has to be stopped by any means necessary.

 

6. Rogue's decision to take the cure is perfectly plausible. Her power put her first boyfriend in a coma for two weeks. She ran away from home, living a rough and dangerous life as a wandering mutant. She was found by the X-Men, then kidnapped by Magneto as part of a scheme to turn world leaders into mutants--a scheme that would kill her (too bad, so sad, can't make an omelette....). In the second movie, her power was minimally useful, but it's main effect was to make it impossible to touch anyone, including her boyfriend. This movie it was even less useful, save in a training scenario. Why wouldn't she want to lose this power?

 

7. What the hells' the deal with it being broad daylight when Magneto hijacks the Golden Gate Bridge, but when he drops it on Alcatraz Island, the rest of the battle scene takes place AT NIGHT? Continuity gaffe of the first order! (Besides, unless I'm mistaken, that concrete prison had steel girders and rebar all through it. Magneot could have pulled it down and stirred it like a quisinart (thereby killing everyone and everything inside, including the boy) any time he wanted without ever getting close enough be at risk from toxin darts. Or bashed it into rubble using the Golden Gate as the world's biggest club.

 

8. Magneto's faint suggestion of returning power indicates that the "cure" isn't nearly as permanent as everyone thinks. Mystique will have no trouble escaping from prison once her powers return (especially if she's clever enough to conceal that fact until she makes her move). Rogue and Bobby could have a very unfortunate experience if they're up close and personal when her powers return.

[Tim]

Re: x3

 

As far as the moving cells, they stated the purpose of that was to make it impossible for Magneto to track down captured mutants by being constantly on the move. Why they didn't just inject the bad guys with the anti-mutant drug and incarcerate them in ordinary maximum security prisons escapes me, but I suppose that's part of the laws of comic book universes.

I think the government in the movie was not to the point of taking away a persons free will, unless given no coice. Remember, they don't castrate rapists, why would they depower nutants? The gaurd's needle gun was his backup weapon. He had to load it remember. They didn't issue it as general service until Magneto was on the was to Alcatraz.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: x3

 

Saw it, liked it, damn they are hard on characters though.

 

Look foreword to seeing more.

 

QM

 

P.S.: nice foreshadowing at the end.

[Korvar]

Re: x3

 

I think the government in the movie was not to the point of taking away a persons free will' date=' unless given no coice. Remember, they don't castrate rapists, why would they depower nutants? The gaurd's needle gun was his backup weapon. He had to load it remember. They didn't issue it as general service until Magneto was on the was to Alcatraz.[/quote']

 

Which also contrasts with Magneto's "See! I told you they'd draw first blood!" remark - they had the opportunity to "cure" the three mutants in the truck, and they hadn't - despite Mystique's repeated demonstration of how dangerous she is.

 

Surprisingly deep stuff, for a comic-book movie

 

But I wish the Dark Pheonix stuff had been in its own film, where it could have had room to breathe.

 

Incidentally, could someone PM me or something the "after the credits" thing people are talking about? My local cinema does everything bar hustling people out at gunpoint shouting "Raus! Raus!" as soon as the credits as much as think about beginning to start.

[Tim]

Re: x3

 

got ya. Check for a PM.

[Korvar]

Re: x3

 

got ya. Check for a PM.

Thanks!

[Manic Typist]

Re: x3

 

 

1. Angel--a pointless character. A guy with wings. Not exactly "A Team" material at his best. His only real purpose is to show a conflict with his father and to save his dad at the end. He could easily have been left out of the film, and should have been.

 

 

 

3. Injecting captured mutants with the "cure" is NOTHING Like summary execution. They're still alive, still have their own personalities and memories--they're simply contained, no longer a threat to others. I think there's a strong case for arguing that it is a reasonable approach to imprisoning them; the only practical alternative in too many cases would BE to kill them out of hand. They TRIED holding Magneto in the last film--we all saw how well that worked.

 

4. This being a comic book movie, yes, none of the X-Men is incontrovertibly dead. We saw Xavier's failsafe (after the credits). We never saw Scott die (though Jean's pain over killing him is powerful evidence that she did, in fact, kill him). And as for Jean...she's the PHOENIX. Do the math.

 

5. The Phoenix storyline was disappointing. Jean really should have been THE villain of the piece, even if it wasn't her choice. Power corrupts.... How about the X-Men allying with Magneto to stop Jean from destroying a city or the world? Save the "mutant cure" for the next film. Instead of retroactively revealing that Xavier had put mental blocks in her brain, she simply acquired phenomenally greater power with her resurrection. Maybe part of the plot is that Charles TRIES to damp down her power to manageable levels--and only when/if that fails do they conclude that she has to be stopped by any means necessary.

 

 

 

7. What the hells' the deal with it being broad daylight when Magneto hijacks the Golden Gate Bridge, but when he drops it on Alcatraz Island, the rest of the battle scene takes place AT NIGHT? Continuity gaffe of the first order! (Besides, unless I'm mistaken, that concrete prison had steel girders and rebar all through it. Magneot could have pulled it down and stirred it like a quisinart (thereby killing everyone and everything inside, including the boy) any time he wanted without ever getting close enough be at risk from toxin darts. Or bashed it into rubble using the Golden Gate as the world's biggest club.

 

 

1) I think it provides a nice cameo. After all, there are mutants out there besides the Brotherhood and X-Men, and now he can be worked in at any later time as the plot requires. He has already been useful.

 

3) It is EXACTLY like capital punishment. You are ending their lives as they know it. You are fundamentally destroying an element of themselves that is part of how they define their very identity. This is up there with lethal injection, life imprisonment, and a ful labotomy. The last one being the most heinous in my opinion. I'm not saying it is wrong, just that it is DRASTIC.

 

4) Jean never displayed a memory of killing Scott. The movie specifically avoided showing anything that we hadn't already seen. She could just remember the pain and violence of that moment, and be terrified at what she might have done. She assumes she has done something permanent, when all she might have done is sent him away, or imprinted him with some secret mission... Return of the Phoniex, anyone?

 

5) A "allies by necessity" bit WOULD have been interesting. Perhaps if the Phoniex returns, this will happen However, everything else I liked. I would have been a little bit annoyed if she just suddenly got powerful for no reason. This, I felt, was a good way of justifying the Phoniex.

 

7) Magneto began his assault on the bridge around the time that the sun was near setting. So, give him say 10 minutes to fully settle the bridge, another 5 or 10 to peptalk his troops and then maybe another 5 just to have the soldiers stew in their own fear... it's getting dark, add another 5-10 for the sake of the plot. Who knows? Maybe the Phoniex was subconciously blocking out the sun for her own amusment, and the true night came during the course of the battle.

[GoldenAge]

Re: x3

 

It is EXACTLY like capital punishment. You are ending their lives as they know it. You are fundamentally destroying an element of themselves that is part of how they define their very identity. This is up there with lethal injection' date=' life imprisonment, and a ful labotomy. The last one being the most heinous in my opinion. I'm not saying it is wrong, just that it is DRASTIC.[/quote']

Well, crippling someone by cutting off their hands and forcing them to play Jacks with their feet is nasty, but it's not capital punishment.

 

I'm not sure which one is worse.

[Manic Typist]

Re: x3

 

Well, crippling someone by cutting off their hands and forcing them to play Jacks with their feet is nasty, but it's not capital punishment.

 

I'm not sure which one is worse.

 

By definition, no, it is not. Neither is the cure. That's why my original, and continued arguments, merely show how severe it is. In many ways it is LIKE capital punishment, as is life imprisonment (because there your life is effectively over, you've just got years of sucky food to put up with). "Curing" mutants would be "up there" with these other two forms of punishment, i.e. one of the maximum possibilities.

[GoldenAge]

Re: x3

 

Well, someone imprisoned or cripled can still add to the general welfare. As long as someone isn't dead (or brain dead) then there is a chance for them to do something special.

 

Dead though... is dead.

[Manic Typist]

Re: x3

 

There are worse fates than death. Some forms of crippling disallow contribution to the general welfare...

 

And none of that is justification for such treatment. After all, the "general welfare" was used to justify slavery and the internment camps.

 

Cyclops' character needs an overhaul. He's been whiney the last two movies.

 

 

Also: if the Phoniex DOES return, I can see a desperate struggle between the united X-Men and Brotherhood to stop her from reaching Cerebro. Can you imagine what she could do when amplified by that? *Shiver*

[The Monster]

Re: x3

 

OK, I liked it too - I thought it was a fine addition to the modern spate of comic-book movies, and an excellent ending to the series, especially if they left just a hint of possible further pieces. I'm just so glad it didn't suck. At least I don't feel I wasted my money and time (or am embarrassed to admit going, like I am with Da Vinci Crud...).

 

If I have quibbles about it, one would be the sudden daylight-to-nighttime shift in the middle of the assault (yeah, you can explain it away, but it was jarring while watching the film). And I too would have liked to see more focus on Dark Phoenix - there's more could have been done with the intrapersonal conflict, and I was kind of hoping to see an emergency alliance between X-Men and Brotherhood to stop her/ But for all that, I don't feel disappointed.

 

The thing that torques me off now is knowing that there was something post-credits! Usually I'm one of those who prefers to sit through the credits of a film I like, just out of respect if nothing else. Now I'll have to see it all over again! (Oh, the agony )

[garou]

Re: x3

 

One thing which really bothered me was this (potential SPOILER alert)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Okay, so Angel is at the mansion, and he hears the others talking about going to Alcatraz Island. He's in New York, it's in California. The X-Jet gets there in good time - and so does he. Apparently, Angel flies as fast as any commercial airliner. I don't recall ever seeing a hint of that in the comic books.

[Teflon Billy]

Re: x3

 

One thing which really bothered me was this (potential SPOILER alert)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Okay, so Angel is at the mansion, and he hears the others talking about going to Alcatraz Island. He's in New York, it's in California. The X-Jet gets there in good time - and so does he. Apparently, Angel flies as fast as any commercial airliner. I don't recall ever seeing a hint of that in the comic books.

I just assumed that Warren has access to a private jet. He is a Billionaire's son after all.

 

TB

[sinanju]

Re: x3

 

3) It is EXACTLY like capital punishment. You are ending their lives as they know it. You are fundamentally destroying an element of themselves that is part of how they define their very identity. This is up there with lethal injection, life imprisonment, and a ful labotomy. The last one being the most heinous in my opinion. I'm not saying it is wrong, just that it is DRASTIC.

 

No, it is exactly NOT like capital punishment. The mutant is still alive after the cure. See Mystique, still moving and talking? See Magneto--also still moving and talking? They're not dead. If the cure were EXACTLY like capital punishment, they'd just lie there and rot.

 

Is it a drastic response? Yes, it is. But it is nothing like capital punishment.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: x3

 

No, it is exactly NOT like capital punishment. The mutant is still alive after the cure. See Mystique, still moving and talking? See Magneto--also still moving and talking? They're not dead. If the cure were EXACTLY like capital punishment, they'd just lie there and rot.

 

Is it a drastic response? Yes, it is. But it is nothing like capital punishment.

 

True. It is not the same as capital punishment.

 

 

More like lobotomizing them.

[Trebuchet]

Re: x3

 

3) It is EXACTLY like capital punishment. You are ending their lives as they know it. You are fundamentally destroying an element of themselves that is part of how they define their very identity. This is up there with lethal injection' date=' life imprisonment, and a ful labotomy. The last one being the most heinous in my opinion. I'm not saying it is wrong, just that it is DRASTIC.[/quote']This is an absurd analogy. Removing criminal mutants' powers with the drug would be done because they are using those powers to commit crimes, not simply because they have them. Law abiding mutants were under no threat from these drugs. If your example were accurate, then taking away the rights of felons to own guns or vote is no different than capital punishment.

 

I do not consider a career criminal to have an inherent right to commit crime simply because it is "part of his identity." Criminal mutants are no different.

[The Monster]

Re: x3

 

This is an absurd analogy. Removing criminal mutants' powers with the drug would be done because they are using those powers to commit crimes, not simply because they have them. Law abiding mutants were under no threat from these drugs. If your example were accurate, then taking away the rights of felons to own guns or vote is no different than capital punishment.

 

I do not consider a career criminal to have an inherent right to commit crime simply because it is "part of his identity." Criminal mutants are no different.

 

Ah, then we should sever the hands of thieves, then? They're using something they're born with to commit crimes...

[Snake Gandhi]

Re: x3

 

Ah' date=' then we should sever the hands of thieves, then? They're using something they're born with to commit crimes...[/quote'] Or castrate rapists, or lobotimise anyone who uses their brains to commit a crime.