"I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

[Dust Raven]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

Just a thought: Because all UAA Powers are required to have a reasonably common defense, couldn't you define that defense as "makes a STR vs Active Points in Teleport/5-d6 Roll?"

[Alibear]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

Just a thought: Because all UAA Powers are required to have a reasonably common defense' date=' couldn't you define that defense as "makes a STR vs Active Points in Teleport/5-d6 Roll?"[/quote']

 

What other defence would fit the SFX? To be honest I can't think of one. Hardened v teleport maybe?

[Dust Raven]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

What other defence would fit the SFX? To be honest I can't think of one. Hardened v teleport maybe?

 

Having Teleport is a common defense for Teleport UAA. Another is having or being made of some odd, specified, material (there's a super metal in my campaign world that natually inhibits the use of teleportation effects for example).

 

Actually, the STR vs "STR" defense doesn't make sense for most uses. Should you turn such a Power against the character rather than his equipment, how would his STR help him?

[CBikle]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

What other defence would fit the SFX? To be honest I can't think of one. Hardened v teleport maybe?

 

Force wall, force field with the protects carried items adder, technologically-based power defense, teleport or extra-dimensional movement.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

Just a thought: Because all UAA Powers are required to have a reasonably common defense' date=' couldn't you define that defense as "makes a STR vs Active Points in Teleport/5-d6 Roll?"[/quote']

 

The defense should make sense in relation to the SFX. To me, this works if 7your teleport UAA is a mechanic for something that does use STR, like a Speedster picking up and moving the target in micro-time. It doesn't make sense if it's a transporter beam - how does the target "hold onto" his current location?

[Dust Raven]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

The defense should make sense in relation to the SFX. To me' date=' this works if 7your teleport UAA is a mechanic for something that does use STR, like a Speedster picking up and moving the target in micro-time. It doesn't make sense if it's a transporter beam - how does the target "hold onto" his current location?[/quote']

 

Exactly. I was just pointing out that something like that could be a valid defense against the Power, given appropriate SFX.

[The Souljourner]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

That'll keep somebody from buying 1" TP' date=' UAA, and "tele-pantsing" Doctor Destroyer[/quote']

 

*rofl* Oh man, that's just too funny

 

Really great discussion here guys. I think I'm of the "no STR check, which is potentially abusive, but in most cases not a big deal" camp.

 

I think I would definitely restrict it only to accessible foci and similar "grabbable" items. No teleporting Green Lantern's ring away or Iron Man's armor. That keeps it from breaking things too much. Anyone relying too heavily on an OAF deserves what they get anyway (and it's usually just mooks).

 

Should probably have a targeting penalty based on size of the object.

 

I guess it's a matter of "try it out, and if it's too abusive, either the GM or PC can limit it".

 

-Nate

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

Just a thought: Because all UAA Powers are required to have a reasonably common defense' date=' couldn't you define that defense as "makes a STR vs Active Points in Teleport/5-d6 Roll?"[/quote']For SFX like speedster snatching things, I agree that's a logical defense. However, for the sake of simplicity and speedier game play, I'd probably just make one of the defenses (not the only one) be "Having a Casual STR equal to or higher than the character's STR."

 

The idea here is that the target will be holding on to the object with their Casual STR. And rather than waste time with die rolls, it's just assumed that if the target's Casual STR is less than the attacker's STR, then the attacker wins (and if the target's Casual STR is equal to or higher than the character's STR, then the target wins).

[bigdamnhero]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

I allowed a character to take Teleport UAA once. Never again. But that's just me. If you think you can keep it from getting too abusive, more power to you.

 

Why doesn't it make sense? Perhaps it has to be wrenched out of their grasp in a sense in order to be teleported without them.

I can see this if the character summons some kind of portal that sucks the focus out of the bad guy's hand. But for most "pure teleport" sfx, I don't think it makes sense.

 

The cited example of Star Trek transporters actually makes perfect sense for this' date=' as we have seen prolific examples of people being transported just by grabbing on to someone who is being transported directly. [/quote']

Yes, but no examples of people being able to stop someone from being teleported by grabbing them, which is what you're proposing.

[CBikle]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

I allowed a character to take Teleport UAA once. Never again. But that's just me. If you think you can keep it from getting too abusive' date=' more power to you. [/quote']

 

That's the other side to this:

 

If it's a PC and the t-port UAO is his main or only attack, there's a reasonable chance of the GM getting tired of the character early on.

 

Many GMs green light UAO-type powers early on, not looking ahead to how that'll affect the game.

 

Personally, my only veto would be on a long-range t-port or an extra-Dimensional movement power bought as Usable Against Others.

[Egyptoid]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

well in Champions, we're simulating comic books,

and how often do power stunts get repeated ?

 

how often does Plastic-Man envelop a perp's face and knock them out ?

 

how often does the Green Lantern use a blinding flash to neutralize the bad guys ?

he's certainly capable of such a stunt.

 

how often does Flash grab the villian's Foci ?

 

to me the answer seems to be once in a great while.

 

yes players want to do the sure-fire tricks week after week,

just like they were hitting the F5 key for special attack sequence in an MMORPG

[The Souljourner]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

I can certainly see how TP:UAA could be horribly abusive and disruptive. However, since this is my character and I...

 

1.) Don't want to ruin my GMs plots

2.) Don't want to make the rest of the PCs feel useless

and (perhaps most importantly)

3.) Don't want to have the power taken away from me

 

.... I think I can keep its use restricted to a reasonable level not much beyond that of fancy telekinesis.

 

That's the thing... a lot of things can be abusive if you try to abuse them. If you don't, it's no big deal.

 

Really, I just want the guy to be able to TP sodas out of the fridge from the couch

 

-Nate

[SteveZilla]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

I'd suggest' date=' however, requiring that the character (a) target the item as though it had an appropriate number of Shrinking levels[/quote']

 

I can see that.

 

 

...and ( the character to have enough Teleport inches to reach from them to the target.

 

I think this is unnecessary*. All UOO powers inherently have no range. The player would have to buy it with Ranged. And if he did, he should have the range he paid for.

 

That'll keep somebody from buying 1" TP' date=' UAA, and "tele-pantsing" Doctor Destroyer or flipping other foci out of hands at LoS ranges.[/quote']

 

*I think a better deterrent is the GM saying "no" to that kind of build.

 

Definitely include range penalties too.

 

Agreed, unless the character also buys it with Ranged and BOECV!

[tesuji]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

Ok so lets handle the game mechanic thing first...

 

if the question was "i make his foci vanish, how to do it?" woukld you think "running uaa"?

 

what is the hero power for removing a power from another character? Drain or dispel.

 

What is the hero power for taking a power from one character and giving it to someone else? Arguably transfer but if it cannot grant new powers (,ight be a GM discretion kind of exception) then ugh a transform. I will avoid the catch all transform and assume some level of special case transfer. the typical case though is a mimic vpp.

 

"i teleport hisn gun away" is just the SFX not the EFFECT. the EFFECt is the enemy loses a power or set of powers all linked by a focus lim. If you can teleport it to you and use it, then you gain that too.

 

those are adjustment power type mechanics, results.

 

IMO.

 

So the biggest general case of power design in would use to "take his gun and use it" would be two powers...

'

fIRST: "His gun goes away" is a dispel with sufficientn SFX and all powwers simultaneously and a lim for "only vs accessible foci"* if thats your belief. You may want to add NND depending onn how you view "what stops it?.

 

SECOND: "and i get his gun to use" is a VPP MIMIC pool with cosmic and linked maybe trigger & a restriction for "only after successfully dispelling someone else's universal focus".

 

NOTE" both of these tie "cost of power" to "the amount of power you can take-away/gain with this" which seems to relate the cost to its potency.

That would seem to start in the right direction for those worries about balance. Since cost and impact are tied together.

 

If you base it MECHANICALLY off of teleport then the cost varies by range, which isn'tn really a significant element in the potency issue after a few cp.

 

Summary: taking a power from a target and giving it to another is noy a teleport GAME MECHANIC, but an adjustment power or adj-pow plus mimic pool.

 

Note: you can just imagine this as the "teleport SFX

" equivalent of what rogue does, and so maybe instead of mimic pool you use the multiform trick.

 

Buy dispel, then buy a huge multiform with the handwave of "all formsd of me plus other guys foci" and limit it to "foci dispelled".

 

 

Note: are any of these going to create a high point cost for this abaility which might price it out of range for starting characters? Sure.

 

but i would rather have maintained "link cost to impact" than have decided to do some teleport uaa and then decide "but its too abusive at that cost so its disallowed."

[SteveZilla]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

what is the hero power for removing a power from another character? Drain or dispel.

 

If it's in a Focus, the "power" can be "dispelled" by damaging it or removing it physically from the wielder. That's what the Focus Limitation allows, and why it makes the power cheaper. No need to get all complicated in how to take a Focus away from a target.

 

Having said that, IMO it would be completely wrong to let a Teleport UAA remove anything other than an Accessible Focus. It's a game balance issue. You can't teleport Tony Stark out of the Iron Man suit, or the Lantern Ring off of Hal Jordan's(?) hand.

 

And if the target has put all 350 points into that one OAF gun, that's his own fault. And remember, even though it's a Focus, and the Teleporter (or a teammate of his) gained possession of the Focus, the can only use it if it's a Universal focus, and even then, only for a short time. It's not like it's also Independent.

[CBikle]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

I can certainly see how TP:UAA could be horribly abusive and disruptive. However, since this is my character and I...

 

1.) Don't want to ruin my GMs plots

2.) Don't want to make the rest of the PCs feel useless

and (perhaps most importantly)

3.) Don't want to have the power taken away from me

 

It's really not that bad, you just have to make sure your GM is OK with it (he really should be OK with it, but some GMs don't like "weird" powers.).

[Kevin Schultz]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

If it's in a Focus, the "power" can be "dispelled" by damaging it or removing it physically from the wielder. That's what the Focus Limitation allows, and why it makes the power cheaper. No need to get all complicated in how to take a Focus away from a target.

 

Having said that, IMO it would be completely wrong to let a Teleport UAA remove anything other than an Accessible Focus. It's a game balance issue. You can't teleport Tony Stark out of the Iron Man suit, or the Lantern Ring off of Hal Jordan's(?) hand.

 

That's also the definition of "OAF": you can physically take it away from the user with a grab maneuver or something similar. The definition of OIF is "you can figure out that the power is coming from a given object, but you can take it from the user only if they're unconcious or otherwise restrained." The definiton of IIF is "you can figure out how to take the power from the user only if you have the appropriate skill or circumstance".

 

Thus, I agree with you - teleporting a focus away from someone with Teleport UAA, in terms of game mechanics, would work only if it was OAF, OIF (and the target was restrained), or IIF (and the skill necessary for taking it was "teleportation").

[Dust Raven]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

If it's in a Focus, the "power" can be "dispelled" by damaging it or removing it physically from the wielder. That's what the Focus Limitation allows, and why it makes the power cheaper. No need to get all complicated in how to take a Focus away from a target.

 

Having said that, IMO it would be completely wrong to let a Teleport UAA remove anything other than an Accessible Focus. It's a game balance issue. You can't teleport Tony Stark out of the Iron Man suit, or the Lantern Ring off of Hal Jordan's(?) hand.

 

And if the target has put all 350 points into that one OAF gun, that's his own fault. And remember, even though it's a Focus, and the Teleporter (or a teammate of his) gained possession of the Focus, the can only use it if it's a Universal focus, and even then, only for a short time. It's not like it's also Independent.

 

Absolutely, Foci are takeawayable by definition. There is no need for a Drain or Dispel. Just grab and go.

 

Now if you wanted to actually destroy the Focus rather than just take it away, you can use Dispel for that, but it gets tricky and often expensive since you have to account for all SFX. An easier method is to simply destroy the Focus the old fashioned way, with an EB or RKA or other attack that will damage anything. Just do enough BODY and POOF! the Focus is gone.

[The Souljourner]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

IMO it would be completely wrong to let a Teleport UAA remove anything other than an Accessible Focus. It's a game balance issue. You can't teleport Tony Stark out of the Iron Man suit' date=' or the Lantern Ring off of Hal Jordan's(?) hand.[/quote']

 

Ha! I was going to give this *exact* example in my next post. I agree completely. For game balance issues, I wouldn't allow it to remove inaccessible foci.

 

 

Definitely include range penalties too.

Agreed' date=' unless the character also buys it with Ranged [b']and[/b] BOECV!

 

*cough* hmm.. yes, well... see, I couldn't wrap my head around the teleporter guy needing to have a high dex to teleport stuff... seemed much more like he could just look at something and move it... so umm.. yeah, he's giving all his offensive uses of TP BOECV. Now granted, this increases the cost even more... here's my build:

 

Teleportation 10", Indirect (Same origin, always fired away from attacker; +1/4), Ranged (+1/2), Usable As Attack (+1), Based On EGO Combat Value (+1) (75 Active Points)

 

I kinda want position shift too, but that bumps it to 94 points (!).

 

-Nate

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

Ha! I was going to give this *exact* example in my next post. I agree completely. For game balance issues' date=' I wouldn't allow it to remove inaccessible foci. [/quote']

 

I think that's also fair from an SFX perspective. Inaccessible foci are generally in much closer contact with the character, so more difficult to envision being teleported away without the character going with it. Teleporting Iron Man's suit without the man himself implies you could also Teleport Giant Man's skin without the rest of him, which is above and beyond Teleport.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

"i teleport hisn gun away" is just the SFX not the EFFECT. the EFFECt is the enemy loses a power or set of powers all linked by a focus lim. If you can teleport it to you and use it' date=' then you gain that too.[/quote']

I agree with the others that you don't need Drain/Dispell/Transfer if you're only going after someone's OAF. But you're right that we don't necessarily have to use Teleport as the Power.

 

One option might be Telekinesis, Only to grab an opponent's OAF (or similar item); keeps it closer to the Grab mechanic, but even if you buy it with Indirect, you wouldn't necessarily be able to bring the gun to yourself if there was a Force Wall or something in the way.

 

USPD1 has an "Aport Punch" power, which is essentially Teleport linked to a HA. You could conceivably do the same thing linked to a grab maneuver?

 

Not saying any of these are "better" ideas - just throwing out random ideas.

[CBikle]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

Teleportation 10", Indirect (Same origin, always fired away from attacker; +1/4), Ranged (+1/2), Usable As Attack (+1), Based On EGO Combat Value (+1) (75 Active Points)

 

I kinda want position shift too, but that bumps it to 94 points (!).

 

-Nate

 

Actually, if you have BOECV, I don't think you really need to buy ranged. I'm pretty sure it gets the standard mental "LOS" range (also means no range mods).

 

Also, I don't think you need to buy "indirect" either. I think it becomes semi-indirect by default.

 

Now you might be able to get Position Shift.

[megaplayboy]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

Had a villain whose nastiest attack was "I teleport you into a nearby wall":

TP UAA, Double Pen KA linked, and Entangle linked.

[CBikle]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

Of course where it gets a little screwy here.

 

You're basically using a mental-based attack to takle out someone's foci.

 

I suppose the GM could just assign the focus-attack penalty (-2 I think) to the attacker's (you) OECV.

[CBikle]

Re: "I teleport the criminal's gun out of his hand"...

 

Further:

 

The attack won't work on robots, aliens, etc. unless you buy the expanded classes of minds advantages to ego attacks.

 

You sure you want to buy BOECV on this attack ?

 

It kind of complicates things...