Ambidexterty- too expensive?

[nexus]

Re: Ambidexterty- too expensive?

 

Just a humorous sidenote.

 

The system allows for backup equipment for 5 Points per doubling.

Why not 5 Points for a backup of your primary hand? (8^D)

 

- Christopher Mullins

 

There is a quirky logic to that.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Ambidexterty- too expensive?

 

I am not really tied to either view' date=' but just a thought here. Wouldn't dirt cheap or free Ambidexterity render some attacks and maneuvers (entangle with the right SFX, grab, called shot on the weapon arm/hand) meaningless and thus stifle versitility?[/quote']If it's too cheap it might, but even at 5 Points I doubt many characters would buy it. At its current cost of 9 CP I think I can only recall ever seeing one Champions PC with it.

 

And of course, like any ability it should be justified by concept and not just because the character can afford it. I could easily justify it for Zl'f based on her incredible level of agility, but I'm OK with the offhand penalty for her. Since handedness very seldom comes into play in Champions (at least when Hit Locations are not used) it makes little difference in my opinion. In Pulp Hero or Fantasy Hero it might be more relevant but I suspect even there its high relative cost makes it fairly rare. Two Weapon Fighting is a better buy.

[OddHat]

Re: Ambidexterty- too expensive?

 

In 5er' date=' the Two weapon fighting drops it to -2 DCV, with Rapid Attack giving it too you in a half phase. Unless that has been superceded by something else - part of what I figure the 10 points is for. [/quote']

 

Sorry. Too used to characters with both, I got the split wrong.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Ambidexterty- too expensive?

 

So taking you at your word here on your ambidexterity' date=' I have a question I have always wondered about. Since practice makes perfect, would you find that although you are [i']capable[/i] of writing with either hand that it is easier with your right hand because that is the one you typically use? Or brushing your teeth, or putting in contact lenses or whatever? Just wondering.

 

When I was little and just learning to write I wrote equally well with both hands. In fact I would start with my left and halfway across the page switch to my right.

 

My teachers decided I needed to learn to use one hand (because they are stupid). My Grandmother decided I should write properly, with my right hand (also because she was stupid) and thus my training to write right handed began in earnest.

 

So adament with this was everyone that immediately (Sagitarius that I am) I switch to my left hand and only my left hand. And I wrote poorly at that because I lost interest in hand writing at that point it was so forced into me. I was a happy git when we I discovered typewriters and computers.

 

Everything else I can switch, brushing my teeth, kicking a ball (no lead foot either), eating, catching, tossing. I have a stronger pitch/throw in my right arm though I can sidearm almost as well with my left. When shooting (I hunted bird for a while, so using a shotgun) I fire off my right shoulder - but lead with my left eye making me a horrible shot.

 

With practice I could probably shoot off my left shoulder easily - but I've no desire or opportunity to do so.

 

I use the mouse on both sides on my computer. I can use tools (hammer, screwdriver) with either hand but tend to pick up hammers and saws with my right, screwdrivers and wrenches with my left. But I can easily switch if needed.

 

I don't go into combat very often (at all really) so the utility there is lost on me. But I can say being Ambidextrous in real life allows one to do an amazing number of things with ease because having something butt up against a corner making it hard to get leverage with one arm I can easily switch to the other arm for.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Ambidexterty- too expensive?

 

Sorry. Too used to characters with both' date=' I got the split wrong. [/quote']

 

- yeah the -2 DCV was not in FRED, there it still halved it. I remember because I was reading up for my speedster, and saw that, and thought "Hoo boy, sweep is a pretty cool option now" - Mentioned it to the MG and he responded with "WHAT?!?!" and looked it up. There it was, so we pulled down FREd and it was not there.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Ambidexterty- too expensive?

 

- yeah the -2 DCV was not in FRED' date=' there it still halved it. I remember because I was reading up for my speedster, and saw that, and thought "Hoo boy, sweep is a pretty cool option now" - Mentioned it to the MG and he responded with "WHAT?!?!" and looked it up. There it was, so we pulled down FREd and it was not there. [/quote']

 

As I recall, this was suggested as a change in Fantasy Hero, as the cost of2 weapon fighting was perceived as excessive for the benefit, and adopted officially in 5er.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Ambidexterty- too expensive?

 

These are important and valid points. It would be quite difficult for me to switch hands and play guitar left-handed, easily giving me a -3 to my PS: Guitar Playing skill. And the same would hold true for Lockpicking and most other skills that require fine manipulation. However, holding a gun reasonably steady and pulling the trigger isn't that tough. Likewise swinging a stick at someone or poking them with something pointy. At the cost of greater complexity, the off-hand penalty could vary depending on the task: -3 for Lockpicking and Musical Instrument Playing, -1 for gun shooting* and club swinging and knife poking, and say -2 for thnigs like bow-and-arrow shooting and fencing and baseball playing, etc.

 

*And usually, when you shoot a gun, you're using both hands anyway, the other is bracing (small 'b'). And many other tasks where both hands come into play may be similar, like swinging a baseball bat at a ball, or maybe even playing golf.

Being ambidextrous myself, I really can't say. I've never had a problem switching hands for most things (though for some reason, my handwriting is more legible with my left hand, and I can only opperate sissors with my right). I don't seem to suffer any hinderance playing a guitar left or right handed and I'm equally accurate handling a weapon in either hand (with or without any kind of bracing).

 

I have noticed a marked difference in performance, or at least preferance in others though. In ROTC, most people on the rifle team simply couldn't handle a rifle in the off hand, even when prone, bracing, taking extra time and everything. I've fought in SCA events against opponents who clearly favored one hand over the other, and taking out their sword arm would quickly win me a match (though there were many who trained with both arms and seemed equally proficient with either, just for this reason). I've seen the same with baseball. Naturally, I'm a switch hitter, but there aren't many compared to the majority of players.

 

Ambidextrous I get some damn weird stares when I spontaneously switch hands for mundane things like eating' date=' catching, tossing an object. . .[/quote']

I rarely get any weird stares when switching hands for any task. When I do, it's usually when eating Chinese and I switch my chop sticks to the other hand so I don't have to reach across my plate for my drink.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Ambidexterty- too expensive?

 

As I recall' date=' this was suggested as a change in Fantasy Hero, as the cost of2 weapon fighting was perceived as excessive for the benefit, and adopted officially in 5er.[/quote']

 

That tells you how close I read the genre books.

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: Ambidexterty- too expensive?

 

Thanks for the feedback ghost-angel. I know a number of lefties that were forced to write with their right hands by stupid people as well, resulting in poor penmanship marks until the advent of the word processor made it a moot point. The irony of course is that the properly used keyboard has no "handedness" associated with it, so we all get a taste of ambidexterity.

 

Okay, not really, but I can dream can't I?

 

EDIT: Oh, and thanks for your input as well Dust Raven. Anyone else out there ambidextrous? Now I am going to start to get jealous.

 

________________________________________________________

"Some people spread joy wherever they go. Others, whenever they go."

[Dust Raven]

Re: Ambidexterty- too expensive?

 

Oddly enough, my sister is right handed but was forced to learn to write with her left hand. The problem was she had no right hand (eaten by an alligator when she was two ). To this day she has horrible handwriting, but can tie her shoes with her stump. More or less proof that handedness is genetic.

[Roland]

Re: Ambidexterty- too expensive?

 

I have ambidextrous tendencies. I am mostly right-handed, but there are some things that I just naturally do with my left hand. I tend to use my left hand for things that require fine finger manipulation, such as opening locks (both key and combination) and turning pages, while I use my right hand for things that require strength or whole-arm coordination. I mouse better right-handed and keyboard a bit better left-handed.

 

In basketball I can dribble equally well with either hand, but I shoot much better right-handed. Oddly, I always used my left hand when going up for a jump ball (back before that skill was made obsolete by the possession arrow).

[Mike W]

Re: Ambidexterty- too expensive?

 

I think this may have come up before but it seems to be full Ambidexterity is too expensive for its utility at 9 points. It works out according the penalty skill level cost structure but doesn't seem comprable to other things you could get for those 9 points' date=' like +3 Dex.[/quote']

 

I think you're really underestimating the usefulness of ambidexterity then. A

+3 to a roll - to move it from 11 to 14 let's say, increases your success rate by almost 30%. So for that 9 points, you're landing 2-3 more off-hand attacks per fight. That's very powerful.

[nexus]

Re: Ambidexterty- too expensive?

 

I think you're really underestimating the usefulness of ambidexterity then. A

+3 to a roll - to move it from 11 to 14 let's say, increases your success rate by almost 30%. So for that 9 points, you're landing 2-3 more off-hand attacks per fight. That's very powerful.

 

The main issue is I've very rarely seen an off hand penalty come up as almost no one makes attacks with off hand enough for it to really matter. For that same 9 points you could get +3 CSL and improve your 14 or less roll to 17 with a group of attacks or get +3 Dex and increase your combat value over all, along with "iniative" and Dex based skill levels or for 1 more point get a +1 speed or Two Weapon fighting and get to make an extre attack (at no offhand penalty at all).

[fwcain]

Re: Ambidexterty too expensive?

 

Here's the problem I've got with the current write-up with Ambidexterity: In order for a character to be truly ambidextrous, he has to buy this "Talent" more than once! He has to buy it for Melee/HTH Combat; he has to buy it again for Ranged Combat (e.g.: guns); and then he has to buy it for Noncombat Skills (which isn't supported with the current write-up at all).

 

A PC or NPC who is ambidextrous with HTH combat won't be ambidextrous if he starts using two pistols, nor will he be ambidextrous if he tries to write (i.e.: Forgery skill) using his Off Hand.

 

So, in my campaign, I've ditched the "official" write-up, and replaced it with this:

 

Ambidexterity: 3 Overall/General levels, base/active cost 30 points, Only to offset the penalty for Off-Hand (-2), final cost 10 points.

 

My write-up is one point more than the "official" one, but it covers all situations: HTH/melee combat; ranged combat; and noncombat!

 

Franklin

[Dust Raven]

Re: Ambidexterty too expensive?

 

Here's the problem I've got with the current write-up with Ambidexterity: In order for a character to be truly ambidextrous' date=' he has to buy this "Talent" [b']more than once[/b]! He has to buy it for Melee/HTH Combat; he has to buy it again for Ranged Combat (e.g.: guns); and then he has to buy it for Noncombat Skills (which isn't supported with the current write-up at all).

 

A PC or NPC who is ambidextrous with HTH combat won't be ambidextrous if he starts using two pistols, nor will he be ambidextrous if he tries to write (i.e.: Forgery skill) using his Off Hand.

 

So, in my campaign, I've ditched the "official" write-up, and replaced it with this:

 

Ambidexterity: 3 Overall/General levels, base/active cost 30 points, Only to offset the penalty for Off-Hand (-2), final cost 10 points.

 

My write-up is one point more than the "official" one, but it covers all situations: HTH/melee combat; ranged combat; and noncombat!

 

Franklin

I thought the complaint was about Ambidexterity being too expensive, not too cheap...

[ghost-angel]

Re: Ambidexterty too expensive?

 

Here's the problem I've got with the current write-up with Ambidexterity: In order for a character to be truly ambidextrous' date=' he has to buy this "Talent" [b']more than once[/b]! He has to buy it for Melee/HTH Combat; he has to buy it again for Ranged Combat (e.g.: guns); and then he has to buy it for Noncombat Skills (which isn't supported with the current write-up at all).

 

A PC or NPC who is ambidextrous with HTH combat won't be ambidextrous if he starts using two pistols, nor will he be ambidextrous if he tries to write (i.e.: Forgery skill) using his Off Hand.

 

So, in my campaign, I've ditched the "official" write-up, and replaced it with this:

 

Ambidexterity: 3 Overall/General levels, base/active cost 30 points, Only to offset the penalty for Off-Hand (-2), final cost 10 points.

 

My write-up is one point more than the "official" one, but it covers all situations: HTH/melee combat; ranged combat; and noncombat!

 

Franklin

 

Except that you're building it wrong.

 

Ambidexterity is 3pt Penalty Skills Levels vs Offhand Penalties.

[Blue Jogger]

Re: Ambidexterty- too expensive?

 

I'd go with:

Basic Ambidexterity is 3 points (double-cost if covers Extra Limbs)

Full Ambidexterity is 6 points (double-cost if covers Extra Limbs)

[Dust Raven]

Re: Ambidexterty- too expensive?

 

How about Ambidexterity as the default assumption for all characters, and a Physical Limitation if a character is not ambidexterous?