Modern Day Magic

[SuperBlue]

Okay! I'm starting a Modern Day Horror Game (4e rules, 75/75 Characters, AP limit of 30 and Def Limit of 10). I know that some members of the group are gonna wanna play magic users, and I need a cheap way of handling magic.

 

Should I use a VPP, EC, or Multipower? MP sounds like it would be the easiest solution, but the PC's are gonna need more than just a few spells, they'll need spells that ward off speicifc types of monsters, force Changlings into their true form, etc... You know... Buffy/Angel kind of stuff (I myself don't know that much about the series, but that's pretty much what it's based off of - I love the genre).

 

The previous needs would indicate a VPP...

 

But what about Combat Magic? The way I'm thinking for the "Specific Spells" would require hours of research to change the VPP, but that would make it almost impossible to set up combat magic.

 

Majorly in need of help!

[Captain Obvious]

Just have your combat magic set up as individual powers, while your specialized spells that will only be used once or twice throughout the campaign are set up in a VPP.

 

Another possible option: Mystic Masters (4th ed) had multipower spells with common special effects but varying powers. Example: The Eleven Lights of Luathon has a Change Environment (light) slot, a Flash slot, an Images slot, an N-ray Vision slot, a Detect (invisibility) slot, a Suppress invisibility slot, an Energy Blast AVLD Flash Defense slot, an Energy Blast 1 hex slot, a Dispel darkness slot, a Mind Control slot, and aN RKA slot. That's a lot of versatility and a lot of savings in the MP framework. Maybe a few spells like that would fit into your campaign....

[NuSoardGraphite]

I would go with a moderate VPP that requires research to change the spells in it.

 

The PC magic users should only be able to cast a limited amount of spells at a time (considering the Mana Level of modern day earth is pretty low, not to consider the "Banality" generated by millions of unbelievers) so I'd keep the VPP to 60 points or less (probably no higher than 30 to start) but allow them to increase their active points temporarily through complex (and lengthy) ritual magic...

 

Of course, the badguys (most especially powerful true demons) should be under no such restriction

[tiger]

When Fantasy HEro comes out it has an option for using skill based magic spells. Much like the power skill.

 

I'm concidering this option for my FH campaign.

[Chris Goodwin]

VPP with Extra Time to change points around. Take hours to research your Concerto For Microwave And Cuisinart spell, one Phase to use it. Your mages will work within the guidelines; they'll keep an array of combat spells (perhaps two or three) with points set aside for Stuff I Need Now.

[SuperBlue]

I dunno... I think MP would be more practical for Combat use... but non-combat stuff would require a VPP... *sigh*

 

Or I could do both within the Same MP... and have them set aside points at the beginning for researching spells

 

Of course, combat spells would require charges, though I could allow Mage Armor to cost END (is a Force Feild after all).

 

*sighs again*

[McCoy]

I would go with the multipower.

 

Part of researching a new spell would be that the character has to have XP to create a new multipower slot to be able to use the spell. This would force the players to consider "is this worth 3 experience points for a spell I may never use again, or is there some other way to get what we neeed?"

 

Also makes spell research "cost" the player as well as the character.

[Killer Shrike]

For a cheap magic system, make it a MPP with Charges ON THE POOL. This a) heavily constrains magic users, and cuts the price down on the MPP so long as the number of charges is small.

 

A caster in such a system might have several small MPPs with charges, with each MPP representing various types of magic or just being a logical break down (all attack spells in 1, all utility spells in another). In your case a caster might have a MPP for the occasional spells you mention with Charges that Recover each week or month or whatever for big point savings, and another MPP with general purpose spells with charges that recover normally.

[Seenar]

It depends on the importance of magic. In my FH games, we have used the traditonal system of spell colleges and with a little XP the mages really get powerful.

 

In the modern world, there is alot that can be done with free tech. I suggest looking a some breaks on powers costs if they are easily done with modern tech as well (take a page from a Star hero Approach).

[Snarf]

Do your players know much about Hero System? Since you're not decided anyway, you might just want to ask them what they like to use.

 

If cost and combat convenience are most important, multipowers seem the best to me.

[Markdoc]

Actually I'd suggest you ignore all the previous posts

 

Seriously, though, you are going at this backwards. Decide how YOU want magic to work in the game: on a practical level, not game mechanics-wise.

 

If magic is really hard to learn and mages keep libraries with big books of spells, with specific names (like Erveton's Whirling Eviscerator), which they study endlessly, then either buying spells straight or a multipower is probably the way to go, depending on how powerful/flexible you want Mages to be. A VPP with "only change spells in Library", works the same way, but swaps out a little raw power for flexibility

 

If Mages are Dr. Strange types, who can wave their fingers and do all kinds of "mystic stuff" then VPP is more appropriate.

 

But first, I'd decide where magic comes from, if there are different sorts, what effects it has on the caster, if any, if a glance is enough to trigger it, or you have to chant and shake your booty - all the non-rules stuff.

 

Once you have that down, the rest pretty much follows automatically. To take some examples off the top of my head, a decadent Sorceror from san Francisco who practices tantric magic might have a multipower of "biomagic" (Mind control and metal illusion spells, the ability to augment himself physically, etc) running off an END battery that only recharges when he, umm, when he.. you know, withholds his Kundalini. A medium from New York might have no other spells than "Summon Spirit (Friendly, large group)", so she can buy it straight, limited, by concentration, incantations ("Are you there, Attilla?") A bayou sorceror from Louisiana probably practices some kind of bastard mixture of Voodoo.

 

Or you could decide that all these guys are charalatans and that there is really only one way to practice real magic, which is.... up to you.

 

Cheers, Mark

[SuperBlue]

Basically magic is tapped from the AEthereal plane, and that requires a certain degree of talent. Once being able to tap the AEthereal plane, mages basically allow the energy to flow through them and they manipulate it to do what they want. However, some spells are so complex they require study and experimentation in addition to lots of time to cast (these would be spell that could banish a demon, scry the location of a magic item, etc...).

 

Should I just handled "Special Spells" as plot devices (There is a demon jumping from person to person and it's on a killing spree, so I arrange for the PC mage to discover a spell that will rip the demon from it's host, contain it, and banish it back to the Infernal Plane)?

 

That system would allow me to set magic up in a MP system, and whatever specialty spells are needed for the adventure, I set up as a plot device (as it is unlikely they will need the spell more than once ever).

[Markdoc]

>>>Basically magic is tapped from the AEthereal plane, and that requires a certain degree of talent. Once being able to tap the AEthereal plane, mages basically allow the energy to flow through them and they manipulate it to do what they want. However, some spells are so complex they require study and experimentation in addition to lots of time to cast (these would be spell that could banish a demon, scry the location of a magic item, etc...).<<<

 

OK, so it's clearly a VPP. See? That was easy. :-)

 

However, some of the effects you might want spellcasters to do will probably run outside the active point limits you have set and the size of the pool Heroic characters can afford.

 

So... here's a suggestion. Allow casters to buy a VPP (up to 30 points) for their spells. That makes them flexible, but keeps them within the active point limit you want. Within that limit they can do all sorts of cool magic stuff.

 

Also allow them (but don't require them) to buy one - and only one - magical power outside the pool: Aid: to any magical power (+2), two powers at once (+1/4 : I think, I don't have FREd to hand), and Trigger (+1/2 (?): cast ritual spell). Make it require a difficult skill roll (-1 per 5 points) and I would be inclined to give it some kind of side effect as well. Allow people to buy up the maximum amount you can aid.

 

I'd call it "Ritual"

 

The way this works is: you can perform a ritual in advance of a specific spellcasting. use the Aid to boost up both your VPP and the specific spell you wish to enhance. That lets you pump more than 30 active points into any given spell, but it would take you quite a while to pump it up to any great level, and you would have to either have a really good Ritual skill, or spend lots of extra time to make sure you could do so reliably (and maybe use props or their sorcerous library to get the tools/conditions bonus to their skill roll).

 

It will let PCs/NPCs make up impressive one-shot spells, without letting players "turn them on" easily during an adventure. It gives them a reason to spend lots of time studying and/or preparing a specific spell. At the same time a hgh degree of ritual skill will distinguish the "real mage" from a dillettante.

 

Cheers, Mark

[James Gillen]

A lot of these ideas (especially 'plot-device' spells that only get used once) do indeed sound like Buffy/Angel magic. Which means the solution is either the VPP or a skill-based system (I don't have the new Fantasy HERO, obviously, so I couldn't say how that would work in this game).

 

As far as the skill-based system (accomplish any effect as long as you make your skill roll) the best version of that magic system I've seen was the rules for occult magic in TORG's Orrorsh setting. In theory, magic could do anything, in practice, you had to lower your difficulty number by setting up a variety of conditions that made the spell unique and/or difficult to cast. This also seems to be the way magic is handled in the actual BUFFY RPG.

 

As far as the VPP system, I really like markdoc's idea for Ritual Aid. Also consider adapting the Cumulative Advantage; this makes spells take longer to cast but increases their effective Active Point total.

 

JG

[SuperBlue]

Marcdok... that's just crazy!

 

So crazy... IT JUST MIGHT WORK!

[NuSoardGraphite]

Umm...didn't I say something to that effect in my first post?

 

Just kidding. That Aid to VPP as "ritual" is really an ingenius idea. You da man Markdoc!

[SuperBlue]

Is this right?

 

This is for a Necromancer

 

MVP: 30 AP

Control Cost 15

Can change spells as a 0 Phase Action (+1)

Necromancy Spells only (-1/2)

 

AP: 60

RC: 50

 

Where do I tack Charges on?

[James Gillen]

Where to tack Charges on? Depends. If it's on one particular Power, only that Power is affected.

 

If it's on the Control Cost, you can only use the entire VPP x number of times a day.

 

Note also that Limitations which are only applicable to the Control Cost (e.g. 'Necromancy spells only') cannot be applied to the individual spells. Some Limitations (like Charges) could apply to both.

 

JG

[NuSoardGraphite]

I was just thinking about something:

 

What limitation would you use if you could only change the powers in the VPP a limited number of times per day (or whatever) but once changed, you can use the powers within the VPP any number of times you wanted...

[James Gillen]

Couldn't be any more than the "Powers only change at HQ" (-1/2) Limitation. Because that generally means the Powers change no more than once a day.

 

JG