World War II era: Dark Champions or Pulp Hero?

[Steve]

I was curious if anyone had ever run campaigns set in this time period, either for Pulp Hero or Dark Champions style stories. Which "style feel" did you use?

 

For examples of military stories, I would imagine the best known are Nick Fury and his Howling Commandoes (Marvel) or Sgt. Rock and Easy Company (DC).

 

However, there was also plenty to do for spybusters and vigilantes to do on the home front in America. The Batman was pretty busy, for example. Would his comic be an example of Dark Champions or Champions? Can you do Golden Age style Dark Champions, or is that a contradiction?

[Lemurion]

Re: World War II era: Dark Champions or Pulp Hero?

 

My current game (Hudson City 1938: The Vigilance Society of America) is set roughly in that period, though perhaps earlier than you're aiming. It is a supers game with a feel that's a cross between Pulp Hero and Champions using a Dark Champions setting. I would think you could do Golden Age Dark Champions as most of the very early superheroes had no qualms about killing (Batman carried a gun when he first appeared).

 

My own game doesn' t quite follow that but then again I preferred the more DC:TAS feel of 4E Dark Champions to the feel of 5E Dark Champions. (On the other hand I don't think DC:TAS did that good a job with it.)

 

I would say you can certainly do it-- just take the time to internalize the feel you want and then cherry-pick charracters and settings to match.

[OddHat]

Re: World War II era: Dark Champions or Pulp Hero?

 

Many of the actual Golden Age comics had a Pulp feel, and games like Godlike show one approach to a gritty WWII Era Supers campaign. I'd just use the core rules and maybe the vehicle books for a Sgt. Rock campaign, with any good source book plus maybe the equipment guide to get the weapons right.

[Pavanne]

Re: World War II era: Dark Champions or Pulp Hero?

 

I was curious if anyone had ever run campaigns set in this time period, either for Pulp Hero or Dark Champions style stories. Which "style feel" did you use?

 

For examples of military stories, I would imagine the best known are Nick Fury and his Howling Commandoes (Marvel) or Sgt. Rock and Easy Company (DC).

 

However, there was also plenty to do for spybusters and vigilantes to do on the home front in America. The Batman was pretty busy, for example. Would his comic be an example of Dark Champions or Champions? Can you do Golden Age style Dark Champions, or is that a contradiction?

 

Most WWII stories (esp. in the comics) are Pulp. Pulp stories have a "good vs. bad, no middle ground" sensibility. DC is all about "shades of gray," "making deals with the devil," and that type of feel.

 

Though the DC book has better info on firearms, which are of paramount concern in WWII stories; that is, combat settings. Not quite so important for "home front" stories.

[input.jack]

Re: World War II era: Dark Champions or Pulp Hero?

 

The feel of the campaign setting has more to do with who is running it (and how) than what books you use. The books are just reference material.

 

As for a Dark Champions Golden Age campaign, it would end up less Pulp and more Noir.

 

(Note: Batman used a gun for all of two issues. Let it go).

[bigdamnhero]

Re: World War II era: Dark Champions or Pulp Hero?

 

Most WWII stories (esp. in the comics) are Pulp. Pulp stories have a "good vs. bad' date=' no middle ground" sensibility. DC is all about "shades of gray," "making deals with the devil," and that type of feel. [/quote']

Well said. It depends on the tone you want to set for the game. To me, "Pulp" gaming tends to imply cheesey fun (tho I admit that's not always the case in the source material), while DC implied dark, gritty action. In practice, I'd almost certainly use material from both genre books.

[Lemurion]

Re: World War II era: Dark Champions or Pulp Hero?

 

Pulp is often more about action and less about consequence. In DC there's more of a chance that choices made will have a visible cost that comes back to haunt the characters. Once an issue is resolved in a "Pulp" setting it's generally over and done with and never comes back. Doc Savage had one recurring villain (John Sunlight) in 181 adventures.

 

I find that both sets of source material work very well together and the game's been a lot of fun. Remember it's all grist for your mill. Use them both (and Champions if you want) to make your game.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: World War II era: Dark Champions or Pulp Hero?

 

I think it was said up thread, but the first question to ask, my friend, is "What feel do I want to lend this campaign?" There are elements to Pulp which make it two-fists of justice sort of action, whereas DC is... well, it's DC. It's Die Hard, it's Batman Begins, to an extent, Lethal Weapon.

 

I've read & watched Band of Brothers and Saving Private Ryan. I've also seen countless episodes of Hogan's Heroes when I was a kid and it ran in syndication. I've played Medal of Honor through Call of Duty on various consoles, and studied large chunks of the history.

 

One of the best sig quotes I've seen - it may have been KA - "What kind of Hero are you if you can't punch your own Nazi?" Nazi's are sort of the defining Pulp element in a lot of cases (those and mad scientists). So, really, what kind of story do you WANT to tell?

 

Is this a Dirty Dozen-esque campaign where our heroes are larger than life and the Nazi's are mooktacular, with monacle wearing, cigarette chomping masterminds behind them? The videogame "Return to Castle Wolfenstein" was a BEAUTIFUL example of blending mooky Nazis with DC weaponry and threading it together with a 100% Pulp Plot, so these things are in no way mutually exclusive.

 

Nazis try to unearth ancient artifact, awaken evil demon, meanwhile your combat is thick and brutal and there's buckets of blood and piles of spent shell casings on the ground. You can overlay your Pulp Era Horror with the D-Day invasion (i.e., while the Allies assaulted the beach, this single unit had a separate, larger purpose, but first they too had to make their way past the machine gun nests...)

 

As for WWYGMD? I would most assuredly pick my plot (we'll say recreating the game, Return to Castle Wolfenstein, for easy reference) and then put together my equipment list and my min/max list. For example, no soldier may have a skill over 13- outside of his specialty (mechanics, language, etc.). Second, I've built all the readily available WW2 era weapons - from the BAR (1944, I think) through the M1 Garand, to the 1911 .45; the German arsenal including the MG series of SMGs, sniper rifles, lugers, the works.

 

Then you build the vehicles. Tanks, jeeps, and so on as necessary. Now you place them in Europe (unless the PCs want to fight the Battle of Midway, but that's something else). OH! And planes. Planes were huge in WW2, so you'll want to model those as well.

 

THEN you make the determination, now that you have the grounds of the setting, which way to go. Were i to do this game, I would go with limited ability selection from DC, and give the players a few extra points to Pulpify the characters, to make them Larger Than Life. If Robert wants to play an UltraTank with light bullet-proofing, that would probably be okay. If you said "I'm going to be Mr. Fix-It, I can repair and drive anything!" that's very pulp (the character has a clear hook) and also perfectly reasonable given the genre conventions. Then Michael says "AH! The Sniper isn't taken!" and voila! We have a pulp-acceptable DC styled team with vintage WW2 gear ready to go.

 

But that's me. And, for reference, this is the same model I used to build my Fantasy Campaign. That's why I'm particularly familiar with the story telling conventions required to properly pull this off.

[Pavanne]

Re: World War II era: Dark Champions or Pulp Hero?

 

Most WWII stories (esp. in the comics) are Pulp. Pulp stories have a "good vs. bad' date=' no middle ground" sensibility.[/quote']

 

For the sake of completeness and accuracy, allow me to point to the exception; the "hardboiled detective" story is both utterly Pulp, and very much the "shades of gray" story.

 

As well, it can be a great amount of fun.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: World War II era: Dark Champions or Pulp Hero?

 

Actually, that's more Noir than Pulp, but there's some overlap. My copy of Pulp Hero told me so!

[pinecone]

Re: World War II era: Dark Champions or Pulp Hero?

 

Maybe the best way to decide is "Which sentance sounds right for your game?"

 

"You ratzis are no match for an American, with a fight in his heart!"

 

Or "You rats will Never hurt another person...(lots o' blams and booms follow)"

 

#1 is Pulp, #2 is more DC style.....if you go for WW2 spycraft the DC seems "better" to me.....

[FenrisUlf]

Re: World War II era: Dark Champions or Pulp Hero?

 

Pulp is often more about action and less about consequence. In DC there's more of a chance that choices made will have a visible cost that comes back to haunt the characters. Once an issue is resolved in a "Pulp" setting it's generally over and done with and never comes back. Doc Savage had one recurring villain (John Sunlight) in 181 adventures.

 

Usually true, but not always. G-8 had a veritable horde of recurring villains. Herr Doktor Krueger, Stahlmaske, Herr Grun, the Raven, the Harpy (Queen of the Winged Dead!), etc.

[FenrisUlf]

Re: World War II era: Dark Champions or Pulp Hero?

 

Nazis try to unearth ancient artifact' date=' awaken evil demon, meanwhile your combat is thick and brutal and there's buckets of blood and piles of spent shell casings on the ground. You can overlay your Pulp Era Horror with the D-Day invasion (i.e., while the Allies assaulted the beach, this single unit had a separate, larger purpose, but first they too had to make their way past the machine gun nests...)[/quote']

 

Slightly OT, but hve you ever read Graham Masterton's Devils of D-Day?

[Steve]

Re: World War II era: Dark Champions or Pulp Hero?

 

Maybe the best way to decide is "Which sentance sounds right for your game?"

 

"You ratzis are no match for an American, with a fight in his heart!"

 

Or "You rats will Never hurt another person...(lots o' blams and booms follow)"

 

#1 is Pulp, #2 is more DC style.....if you go for WW2 spycraft the DC seems "better" to me.....

 

I see your point. I thought you could do it either way, but this sums it up very nicely.

[ken julian]

Re: World War II era: Dark Champions or Pulp Hero?

 

Dark pulp ?

[pinecone]

Re: World War II era: Dark Champions or Pulp Hero?

 

Dark pulp ?

 

I believe thats "Pulp noir"...

[Thia Halmades]

Re: World War II era: Dark Champions or Pulp Hero?

 

Slightly OT' date=' but hve you ever read Graham Masterton's [i']Devils of D-Day[/i]?

 

Nope, never even heard of it. I read something ... oh L-rd, it was back in summer camp of all places, and there was a guy who became a Werewolf while working with a Kabbalist scholar. There were elements of the Illuminati in there as well - lots and lots of pulp crazy with a hint of erotic story telling.

 

Why did you ask about the Masterton thing? Is it something I should read, or just really similar?

[FenrisUlf]

Re: World War II era: Dark Champions or Pulp Hero?

 

Nope' date=' never even heard of it. I read something ... oh L-rd, it was back in [i']summer camp[/i] of all places, and there was a guy who became a Werewolf while working with a Kabbalist scholar. There were elements of the Illuminati in there as well - lots and lots of pulp crazy with a hint of erotic story telling.

 

Why did you ask about the Masterton thing? Is it something I should read, or just really similar?

 

Devils of D-Day is a very good potboiler horror novel (but set in the modern day, alas) that details how the Allies used thirteen devils of war bound into Sherman tanks to help win the D-Day battle. Very weird and creepy but well done, and very hard to find. Try searching E-Bay.

 

A more recent Masterton novel with WW2 horror is The Chosen Child, about a Nazi-controlled monster wandering the sewers of Warsaw during the Uprising. Again, most of the action is in modern times, but the flashback parts are very good for someone looking for Weird War Tales inspiration.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: World War II era: Dark Champions or Pulp Hero?

 

I'll have to give that a shot, thanks Fenris. Have some rep. No no - it's on the house.

[starblaze]

Re: World War II era: Dark Champions or Pulp Hero?

 

I once ran a campaign set in WWII that was essentially a Dark Golden Age Champions game. The characters were real superheroes but had no problem with killing. In fact one of the characters, Bjorn was a Norwegian Werebear with the bloodlust psych.

[bubba smith]

Re: World War II era: Dark Champions or Pulp Hero?

 

bump

[bubba smith]

Re: World War II era: Dark Champions or Pulp Hero?

 

now lets see here

military/mercenaries dark champions/pulp hero

masked mystery men[ with low level powers ]pulp hero/dark champions

i'd say its 50/50

[Vulcan]

Re: World War II era: Dark Champions or Pulp Hero?

 

(Getting off topic here)

 

Being a stickler for detail when it comes to guns, I note that the BAR was designated the M1918 for the year the Army first started issuing it. And it served through 'til the beginning of the Vietnam War. Only the M2 .50 cal. (developed early in WWI and still in use today) and the M1911 (which was retired in the 1980's) have had longer service records. Truly an excellent weapon, far superior to the 5.56mm POS being issued today (granted, in my opinion anyway).

[bubba smith]

Re: World War II era: Dark Champions or Pulp Hero?

 

in the champions forum thread ww2 metahuman emergence i suggested using pulp hero levels for the tech and characters and ninja hero for the lower level powers like in crouching tiger hidden dragon the same level should work in a ww2DARK CHAMPS game

[bubba smith]

Re: World War II era: Dark Champions or Pulp Hero?

 

Maybe the best way to decide is "Which sentance sounds right for your game?"

 

"You ratzis are no match for an American, with a fight in his heart!"

 

Or "You rats will Never hurt another person...(lots o' blams and booms follow)"

 

#1 is Pulp, #2 is more DC style.....if you go for WW2 spycraft the DC seems "better" to me.....

the first line works for me