Weapon Overheat

[Thia Halmades]

Here's the challenge. On paper one would think "Ah, overheat! That's just a burnout roll!" But that isn't what I want to do. The weapon only has a chance of burning out under sustained use. Short, controlled bursts won't cause it to vent plasma.

 

What mechanic best represents this? Would you install a complicated mechanic based on how much Autofire you use? I'm open to suggestions, this one has always bugged me.

[SirViss]

Re: Weapon Overheat

 

You might want to look up Boostable Charges for some ideas.

[Weldun]

Re: Weapon Overheat

 

Start with the build at the point where the attack is "safe" to use. Then, build the rest as a naked advantage, essentially building it as a partially limited power, which is what I read your description as, anyway.

 

Example

Plasma Rifle: RKA 4d6; Penetrating (+½); Autofire (3 shots; +¼); Charges (4 clips of 60; +¾); 150 active; OAF (Plasma Rifle; -1); Two Hands (-½); STR Min 12 (STR min cannot add/subtract damage; -1); Real Weapon (-¼). 40 Real. and Autofire (+2; +¼) of RKA; 15 active; OAF (Plasma Rifle; -1); Two Hands (-½); STR Min 12 (STR min cannot add/subtract damage; -1); Real Weapon (-¼); Burnout 12- (-½); Side Effect (Burnout affects entire power; (-½). 3 real.

 

A burnout of 12- still means that 75% of the time, the weapon doesn't burnout at full power, but the risk is, the weapon won't fire at all if it does. I based the side effect value on lockout.

 

Another build could lose autofire from the base build, and each level of autofire applied has an increased chance of burnout.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Weapon Overheat

 

Here's the challenge. On paper one would think "Ah, overheat! That's just a burnout roll!" But that isn't what I want to do. The weapon only has a chance of burning out under sustained use. Short, controlled bursts won't cause it to vent plasma.

 

What mechanic best represents this? Would you install a complicated mechanic based on how much Autofire you use? I'm open to suggestions, this one has always bugged me.

 

The best way I've seen this done (assuming you don't mind a bit of extra complexity) was in a HERO Battletech conversion trying to represent heat buildup.

Basicall the idea used in this case was an extra limitation on heat generating power... a custom variant of Costs END (same limit value) so that all heat generating weapons also burn "End" from a End reserve representing the maximum safe heat level. The Reserve Recovery acts as the dissipation rate, and the Reserve itself has Side Effects (Overheating damage) and an Activation Roll/Burnout/Jammed/RSR:Systyem Operations (pick your favorite) with another custom limit similar to Abative, that shifts the roll on the chart to fit your prefered variables.

 

Could look something like this.

 

Safe Thermal reserve: End Reserve: 100 End

Danger Thermal Reserve:+100 End

Side Effects (Catastrophic failure, 4d6K Explosion centered on most recently used heat generating system: Occurs if RSR: is failed), RSR: Systems Operations at -1/10 points

Radiators & Heat Sinks: Recovery 25 End Recovery/ Post Segment 12

 

the numbers are obviously something you'd want to tweak around to taste depending on applcation. The drawbak, of course is you're paying points for something that is desingned solely to monitor a drawback... You could point it out and then use the cost as a guideline for a Side Effects Limit on the weapon if you prefer for it to be an actual Limitation

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Weapon Overheat

 

Back in the day I worked up an "Overheats" Limitation. It worked like a combination of Ablative and Burnout; the first shot just worked, subsequent shots would require a Burnout roll that got harder after every shot; allowing the Power to "rest" between shots improved the roll.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Weapon Overheat

 

Back in the day I worked up an "Overheats" Limitation. It worked like a combination of Ablative and Burnout; the first shot just worked' date=' subsequent shots would require a Burnout roll that got harder after every shot; allowing the Power to "rest" between shots improved the roll.[/quote']

 

Yeah, that is the easy way

Back when I wrote up the Powerguns from Hammers Slammers for my 4th ed. Star Hero game I did something very similar.

[Weldun]

Re: Weapon Overheat

 

Yeah, that is the easy way

Back when I wrote up the Powerguns from Hammers Slammers for my 4th ed. Star Hero game I did something very similar.

I think Sundog might be interested in some of those writeups.

[tgrandjean]

Re: Weapon Overheat

 

Hmmm.... Perhaps Charges, Costs End, Side effect: Burnout if End pool exceeded (-1/4?) and a dedicated End pool and reserve?

*raises eyebrow* This wouldn't happen to be the Killzone SAW would it?

[Sociotard]

Re: Weapon Overheat

 

First, I'd need to see what writeup you were using for a gun that didn't have this disadvantage.

 

Lets say that you built this weapon as RKA 1d6, Constant (+1), 50 Charges (+1/2), just to start off. Call each shot a "burst" for special effects.

 

Now, turn the Constant advantage into a naked advantage and put burnout on it. If you'd like it to be more likely to burnout after longer periods, say as a fiat that the roll goes up one every segment. (segment one, no effect, segment two 14-, then 13-, 12-, and so forth) I'd call that a -1/2 or so.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Weapon Overheat

 

Well, we could try this:

 

2d6 RKA autorife (5) 64 charges, costs END OAF (6 END/shot) 24 POINTS

 

END reserve 60 END OAF 3 POINTS

15 REC OAF 7 POINTS

 

Total 24+3+7 = 34 points

 

OK, it is not as cheap as I'd like (it is cheaper by 4 points to just have 64 charges and none of this 'costs END mularkey), but it works nicely enough: you have a limited number of charges, your bullets (or whatever) and the END reserve is your heat reserve - it will empty as you use shots - you get two phases on full auto - then you have to wait for it to recover before you can use it again. Not the cheapest build but a nice easy mechanic to run in practice. As a GM as the point of the mechanism is to further limit the build, I'd allow you to take the END reserve as a freebee if you took no limitation for 'costs END' and at least you wuold not be paying through the nose for concept then. Of course if all weapons are built this way the extra cost does not matter.

 

The nice thing about this is that it allows the GM to tailor the END reserve and recovery rate to indicate how much heat a weapon can accumulate before cutting out and also how quickly it can vent that heat.

 

One question while I think of it even though it is something of an aside, why is it that 'autofire' increases the END cost of a single shot? I'd have thought that was unnecessary given that you pay END per shot, not per 'power use'.

[Vondy]

Re: Weapon Overheat

 

I would use the burnout limitation, but reduce the limitation by one level on the chart; and note "burnout during sustained use [Roll], -X" on the character sheet.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Weapon Overheat

 

I would use the burnout limitation' date=' but reduce the limitation by one level on the chart; and note "burnout during sustained use [Roll'], -X" on the character sheet.

 

Heat build up is predicatable, and (IMO) should not be done one a roll, which will give you odd results a lot of the time.

 

How about a side effect (drain) that only takes effect when the entire power is drained. So, you have a build up of drain (heat) that stops the power working if not given a chance to recover (at the normal adjustment power recovery rate of 5/turn).

 

Have to think about that, but it has possibilities.

 

Hmm: 2d6 RKA 64 charge Autofire (60 AP power) with heat side effect (set effect, always occurs (do you double before or after the subtraction?):

 

-1/4 each use drains 5 points (standard effect)

-1/2 each use drains 10 points (standard effect)

-1 each use drains 20 points (standard effect)

 

SO you could get 12 continuous phases of use (well more as that would almost certinaly include one or more recoveries), 6 out of the -1/2 and 3 for -1. Note that the power would not be useable (probably) until the entire power recovers (fair is fair).

 

You could remove standard effect and have 1 1/2d6, 3d6 and 6d6 effect and get more bang for your buck

[Rapier]

Re: Weapon Overheat

 

Ok, this might sound totally crazy. How about just a plain old partially limited power.

 

Build it to operate off an END Reserve. So give the END Reserve (Heat Disipation) 100 END and a 10 REC and the REC is limited so that it only recovers if the weapon is not used in a Turn.

 

1d6 RKA

+1d6 RKA x2 END

+1d6 RKA x3 END

+1d6 RKA x4 END

 

The theory is that instead of operating off the regular AutoFire method and using charges, we are operating more on the theory that a larger attack is actually multiples shots hitting.

 

Hmmm. How about a custom limitation that amounts to: END Multiple = # of shots fired in phase - 1. So if you fire five shots the END cost is x4. Fire 3 shots and the END cost is only x2.

 

Increased END: x2 is -1/2, x3 is -1, x4 is -1.5

 

In the middle is -1, so call the custom lim a -1.

 

Blaster Rifle: RKA 4d6, 64 Charges (+1/2) (90 Active Points); Increase END Cost is Number of Shots Fired in Phase Minus One (-1), OAF (-1), Costs Endurance (-1/2)

 

Endurance Reserve (60 END, 10 REC) Reserve: (16 Active Points); REC: (10 Active Points); Can Only Recover When Weapon Not Used in Turn (-1)

 

Perhaps?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Weapon Overheat

 

In the Dirt Simple Camp we have:

 

Side Effect (Overheat; Weapon has 11- chance of overheating and failing if Autofire 3+ is sustained for 6 or more phases, Conitunous use for 4 or more phases)

 

Adjust time intervals to GM discretion. Adjust roll to GM discretion. Aw heck, it's a dang Side Effect - decide the conditions you think a weapon would overheat on and go.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Weapon Overheat

 

To answer some of the obvious questions (and I left the answers off intentionally) this is for HALO HERO. The weapon is the Brute/Elite Plasma Rifle. Simply, the weapon overheats on sustained use, and then vents plasma (4 segments to do so, the 'cool off' period), which guarantees that somewhere in there you aren't going to get to fire while you "reload."

 

What I'm trying to mimic is somewhere between the originally Floating Head & Elwin are saying; it's probably going to be built as a Side Effect, which means (as GA pointed out) that I can make it whatever I want/need it to be, within the limitations of common yadda yadda. Fine. The trick is getting the blend right so the weapon is useful, "fun" to use in game (because who doesn't want to spray Plasma at people as a 6d6 Autofire EB?) but is limited by its Burnout/Overheat.

 

Burnout doesn't do it the way I'd quite like because of the roll, however, I haven't thought of anything better just yet, so I put it up to y'all to see how you'd do it. You can go to the HALO HERO thread in Star HERO and look it up; it should be somewhere between pages 5 & 7 (I don't remember where exactly, and it's late & I'm tired).

[Vondy]

Re: Weapon Overheat

 

Heat build up is predicatable, and (IMO) should not be done one a roll, which will give you odd results a lot of the time.

 

How about a side effect (drain) that only takes effect when the entire power is drained. So, you have a build up of drain (heat) that stops the power working if not given a chance to recover (at the normal adjustment power recovery rate of 5/turn).

 

Have to think about that, but it has possibilities.

 

Hmm: 2d6 RKA 64 charge Autofire (60 AP power) with heat side effect (set effect, always occurs (do you double before or after the subtraction?):

 

-1/4 each use drains 5 points (standard effect)

-1/2 each use drains 10 points (standard effect)

-1 each use drains 20 points (standard effect)

 

SO you could get 12 continuous phases of use (well more as that would almost certinaly include one or more recoveries), 6 out of the -1/2 and 3 for -1. Note that the power would not be useable (probably) until the entire power recovers (fair is fair).

 

You could remove standard effect and have 1 1/2d6, 3d6 and 6d6 effect and get more bang for your buck

 

While the method you propose is workable I wouldn't use it. Its too clunky and book-keeping, especially at run-time, is evil. This is why I proposed a simple roll. We clearly have different priorities in using the system, and different ideas of what constitutes an enjoyable play experience. If I were to do something akin to your method I would simply assign a set number of maximum uses per turn that would lead to overheat. And, while overheating is fairly predictable, it is not invariably so. As such, once the number of charges per turn threshold is passed, I am not convinced a roll is not appropriate. (especially since setting appropirate targets on a bell curve result in predictable results).

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Weapon Overheat

 

I'm glad I found this -- GA, I'm going to go with your suggestion for the redesign for the .hdp file. Gracias. I cannot rep you yet, apologies.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Weapon Overheat

 

How about 'Power stops working for a while if the GM thinks you've been using it too much' -1/2?

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Weapon Overheat

 

That's close.

 

Plasma Pistol, Overcharge Shot, Side Effect (Occurs every time power is used), Weapon overheats and cannot be used for 6 segments.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Weapon Overheat

 

That's close.

 

Plasma Pistol, Overcharge Shot, Side Effect (Occurs every time power is used), Weapon overheats and cannot be used for 6 segments.

 

Shoot, that's just good old fashioned Extra Time.

 

How about messing about with Charges? Let's say that you have something like this:

 

Variable Limitation. One of:

 

* Extra Time, 1 Turn, or

 

* 3 Charges Per 5 Minutes, with whatever the altered value is for buying down the recovery time that far.

 

So, if you fire one shot, then wait 1 Turn for the weapon to cool down and fire again, you can fire as many times as you want. Otherwise, if you fire three times without the cooldown period, it overheats and takes 5 Minutes to cool down. (Charges do give you an option to buy down the "return time" right? Normally it's Per Day, but each level down the Time Chart is either +1/4 or one level down?)

 

You could go further. Variable Limitation of:

 

* Extra Time, 1 Turn, or

 

* 3 Charges Per Turn, 14- Act. with Burnout, or

 

* 8 Charge Per Turn, 11- Act. with Burnout

 

Here, you can fire once, wait one Turn and fire again, all day. Or, you can fire it three times in one Turn and bet on a 14- roll to keep going, or you can fire it eight times in one Turn and bet on an 11- roll.

 

IDHMBIFOM so I don't know if those values work out close to the same. If you HYBIFOY, you can work the values out so they fit under one Variable Limitation. And you can season to taste.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Weapon Overheat

 

Not quite.

 

First, because Overcharge Shot already costs Extra Time (+1 ... Segment I think I set it too). This is the weapon "charging" to full capacity. THEN, I added "Time Delay" so the charge can be held on the end of the weapon indefinitely (until trigger is released, at which point it fires).

 

HDv3 doesn't want me to use "boostable charges" so I had to side step it, since the weapon has 50 charges base, and one overshot uses 5 rounds, I set the OC to 10 rounds, with the condition that each shot peels 5 rounds off the battery.

 

NOW. Once all that's done, you have a preset effect when the charge is released, which is a Linked Dispel (Energy Shields, 12d6) and an RKA (3d6). Then there's the modified lockout - you can't both Dispel & RKA; if they have a Personal Energy Field, the field drops. No field, they take the thumping damage.

 

Lastly, once the weapon discharges its Overcharge shot, the sides crack and the plasma vents, disabling the weapon from use for 6 segments.

 

Does that explain?

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Weapon Overheat

 

That makes sense. You had a specific type of effect in mind rather than a "generic" overheating.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Weapon Overheat

 

Not quite.

 

First, because Overcharge Shot already costs Extra Time (+1 ... Segment I think I set it too). This is the weapon "charging" to full capacity. THEN, I added "Time Delay" so the charge can be held on the end of the weapon indefinitely (until trigger is released, at which point it fires).

 

HDv3 doesn't want me to use "boostable charges" so I had to side step it, since the weapon has 50 charges base, and one overshot uses 5 rounds, I set the OC to 10 rounds, with the condition that each shot peels 5 rounds off the battery.

 

NOW. Once all that's done, you have a preset effect when the charge is released, which is a Linked Dispel (Energy Shields, 12d6) and an RKA (3d6). Then there's the modified lockout - you can't both Dispel & RKA; if they have a Personal Energy Field, the field drops. No field, they take the thumping damage.

 

Lastly, once the weapon discharges its Overcharge shot, the sides crack and the plasma vents, disabling the weapon from use for 6 segments.

 

Does that explain?

 

You should write up Big O's Final Stage!

 

see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_O

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Weapon Overheat

 

HM, what the sweet candy are you talking about??

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Weapon Overheat

 

HM' date=' what the sweet candy are you talking about??[/quote']

 

 

SWEET CANDY!

 

Where?