MisterD Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 Purpose of this thread: To help me (and others) in making sure a power fits the SFX or source of a power (No 6 degrees on how a power is related to a Kevin Bacon movie). I do not want discussions on how Spiderman developed web shooters in the comics or how the movie has his shooting webs from his wrists when normally spiders shoot webs from their .... (Can I say that on this board?) My current problem: I a working a character. A normal person who loves MA movies and Anime. He and some friends develop a suit of armor. Since these people are nerds a geeks and not jocks they have no real fighting experience but by combining what they know about Video games and Bio-Mechanics (how the human body moves) they developed a tactical computer that can either take care of the Martial Arts fighting or propt the wearer of the armor on how to fight. Does this fit the character? Do you need more information? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 Re: Rationalize this.... Presuming a rare talent for programming, access to high-end computing resources, expertise in biomechanics, and basic comic book assumptions I wouldn't have a problem with it. You might add "extrapolated martial arts movie star moves database" to round it out and your set. You could even give the onboard comp "Program: Open Can Of Bruce Lee Whoopass " for when things get really serious. Heck, it's a better concept than Midnighter... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trained Chicken Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 Re: Rationalize this.... Although delightfully cheesy and quaint, it doesn't stretch the bounds of credibility in a world where Superman can pick up a building and fly around without breaking any water mains or high tension wires. In fact, it sort of reminds me of Douglock from the New Mutants. So, you buy Martial Arts, IIF battlesuit, while the rest of the battlesuit powers are presumably OIF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston GM Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 Re: Rationalize this.... Since these people are nerds a geeks and not jocks they have no real fighting experience but by combining what they know about Video games and Bio-Mechanics (how the human body moves) they developed a tactical computer that can either take care of the Martial Arts fighting or propt the wearer of the armor on how to fight. Given this background, it would be reasonable for the powers to have an additional limitation of not working in certain environments (ones they couldn't be programmed for). I would expect the tactical computer to operate perfectly during a fight in a bar, on stairs, or on scaffolding (plenty of movies have fights under these circumstances). I would expect the tactical computer to fall short during fights on ice, hanging from ropes, in zero-g, or underwater (very few movies have fights under these circumstances). Furthermore, the computer would probably be worthless if the fight occurs in darkness (not enough data being input). Under adverse situations, the tactical computer would fail to provide any bonus in addition to the circumstance penalties incurred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balabanto Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 Re: Rationalize this.... The rules on this are clear. Since the character doesn't actually HAVE martial arts himself, the correct way to buy this is Hand to Hand attack and combat levels with the armor. Since you should NEVER buy levels through a focus, and it's cheese on earth to do so, this is the best course of action for balance and fair gameplay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BNakagawa Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 Re: Rationalize this.... why not just buy focussed dex and HA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterD Posted October 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 The Cyber Ninja Cyber Ninja Val Char Cost Roll Notes 20 STR 10 13- / 15- 4d6/6d6 HTH damage [2/3] 20 DEX 30 13- / 15- OCV: 7/9/DCV: 7/9 16 CON 12 12- 10 BODY 0 11- 13 INT 3 12- PER Roll 12- 13 EGO 6 12- ECV: 4 15 PRE 5 12- PRE Attack: 3d6 14 COM 2 12- 5 PD 1 Total: 5/17 PD (0/12 rPD) 5 ED 2 Total: 5/17 ED (0/12 rED) 4 SPD 10 Phases: 3, 6, 9, 12/2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12 10 REC 6 32 END 0 28 STUN 0 Total Characteristics Cost: 87 Movement: Running: 6"/12"/[Noncombat]" Leaping: 4"/12"/[Noncombat]" Swimming: 2"/[Noncombat]" Cost Powers END 30 Armor: Armor (12 PD/12 ED), Hardened (+1/4) (45 Active Points); OIF (Battle Armor; -1/2) 0 3 Compensation System: Power Defense (5 points) (5 Active Points); OIF (Battle Armor; -1/2) 0 3 Compensating System: Lack Of Weakness (-5) for Mental Defense (5 Active Points); OIF (Battle Armor; -1/2) 0 6 Helmet (Flash Bang protection): (Total: 10 Active Cost, 6 Real Cost) Sight Group Flash Defense (5 points) (5 Active Points); OIF (Battle Armor; -1/2) (Real Cost: 3) plus Hearing Group Flash Defense (5 points) (5 Active Points); OIF (Battle Armor; -1/2) (Real Cost: 3) 0 7 Helmet (Communication System): Radio Perception/Transmission (Radio Group) (10 Active Points); OIF (Battle Armor; -1/2) 0 3 Helmet (Internal air Supply): Life Support (Self-Contained Breathing) (10 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2), OIF (Battle Armor; -1/2) [1] 17 Visor (Video imaging): Increased Arc Of Perception (360 Degrees) with all Sense Groups (25 Active Points); OIF (Battle Armor; -1/2) 0 3 Visor (Light Amplifications): Nightvision (5 Active Points); OIF (Battle Armor; -1/2) 0 3 Visor (Heat Diferenciation): Infrared Perception (Sight Group) (5 Active Points); OIF (Battle Armor; -1/2) 0 4 Visor (Optical Zoom): +4 versus Range Modifier for Hearing Group (6 Active Points); OIF (Battle Armor; -1/2) 0 3 Encrypted connection to base: Mind Link , One Specific Mind (5 Active Points); OIF (Battle Armor; -1/2) 0 22 Armor Power Supply: Endurance Reserve (150 END, 10 REC) Reserve: (25 Active Points); IIF (Battle Armor; Hidden power Source; -1/4) 0 Bio-Kinetic Enhancements, all slots OIF (Battle Armor; -1/2) 6 1) Servos and Artificial Musculature: +12 STR (12 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), OIF (Battle Armor; -1/2) 1 12 2) Bio-Kinetic Reflex Augmentation: +8 DEX (24 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), OIF (Battle Armor; -1/2) 13 3) Bio-Kinetic Reaction Augmentation: +2 SPD (20 Active Points); OIF (Battle Armor; -1/2) 43 Technology aided Ninja attacks / abilities: Multipower, 65-point reserve, (65 Active Points); all slots OIF (Battle Armor; -1/2) 1u 1) Ninja Climb: Clinging (normal STR) (10 Active Points); OIF (Battle Armor; -1/2) 0 2u 2) Ninja Vanish: (Total: 30 Active Cost, 18 Real Cost) Sight Group Flash 1d6, Penetrating (+1/2) (7 Active Points); OIF (Battle Armor; -1/2) (Real Cost: 5) plus Invisibility to Sight Group and Normal Hearing (23 Active Points); OIF (Battle Armor; -1/2), Linked (Flair; -1/4) (Real Cost: 13) 3 1u 3) Ninja calling shadows: Darkness to Sight Group 1" radius, Personal Immunity (+1/4) (12 Active Points); OIF (Battle Armor; -1/2) 1 3u 4) Chi' Strike: Energy Blast 8d6 (40 Active Points); OIF (Battle Armor; -1/2) 4 1u 5) Ninjutsu: (Total: 30 Active Cost, 14 Real Cost) Hand-To-Hand Attack +4d6 (20 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2), OIF (Battle Armor; -1/2) (Real Cost: 10) plus +10 STR (10 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (Only for Martial art effects (Grab, Escape, ect.); -1/2), No Figured Characteristics (-1/2), OIF (Battle Armor; -1/2) (Real Cost: 4) 3 2u 6) Ninja Sword: HKA 2d6 (3d6+1 / 4d6 w/STR) (30 Active Points); OIF (Battle Armor; -1/2) 3 1u 7) Ninja throwing stars: RKA 2d6 (30 Active Points); 8 Charges (-1/2), OIF (Battle Armor; -1/2) [8] 1u 8) Ninja Leap: Leaping +6" (4"/12" forward, 2"/6" upward) (Accurate) (11 Active Points); OIF (Battle Armor; -1/2) 1 1u 9) Ninja Dash: Running +6" (6"/12" total) (12 Active Points); Only On Appropriate Terrain (-1/2), OIF (Battle Armor; -1/2) 1 Perks 20 Bases(100 point base (Training area, labs and communication center) Skills Every Man Skills 0 1) Acting 8- 0 2) AK 8- 0 3) Climbing 8- 0 4) Concealment 8- 0 5) Conversation 8- 0 6) Deduction 8- 0 7) Language: English (completely fluent) (3 Active Points) 0 8) Paramedics 8- 0 9) PS: Online Sales 8- 0 10) Shadowing 8- 0 11) Stealth 8- 0 12) TF: Common Motorized Ground Vehicles 8 Tactical Subsytem (Library of Bio-Kinetic formulas for martial art and videogame fighting maneuvers) +4 Combat Skill Levels with Ninjutsu (12 Active Points); OIF (Battle Armor; -1/2) 7 Tactical Subsystem (Link Library to Visor) Defense Maneuver I-IV (10 Active Points); OIF (Battle Armor; -1/2) 3 Acrobatics 13- (15-) 3 Breakfall 13- (15-) 3 Climbing 13- (15-) 3 Disguise 12- 3 Systems Operation 12- 3 Tactics 12- 7 Weaponsmith 14- 3 KS: Anime 12- 3 KS: Action and Martial Arts movies 12- 3 KS: Fighting video games 12- 3 KS: Hero World 12- Total Powers & Skills Cost: 263 Total Cost: 350 200+ Disadvantages 20 Normal Characteristic Maxima Total Disadvantage Points: 350 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Short Shot Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 Re: Rationalize this.... Purpose of this thread: To help me (and others) in making sure a power fits the SFX or source of a power (No 6 degrees on how a power is related to a Kevin Bacon movie). I do not want discussions on how Spiderman developed web shooters in the comics or how the movie has his shooting webs from his wrists when normally spiders shoot webs from their .... (Can I say that on this board?) My current problem: I a working a character. A normal person who loves MA movies and Anime. He and some friends develop a suit of armor. Since these people are nerds a geeks and not jocks they have no real fighting experience but by combining what they know about Video games and Bio-Mechanics (how the human body moves) they developed a tactical computer that can either take care of the Martial Arts fighting or propt the wearer of the armor on how to fight. Does this fit the character? Do you need more information? I can't see any problem with it. Geeks have access to high systems capable of rendering the movies in 3d, program in correct responses, etc. I would do one of two things as part of the system, though. Either make it so your limbs are not in the battle suits limbs when it throws a super fast punch, or have the suit interface with YOUR nerveous system so your actions are in coordination with the suit's. Even the later is pushing it in a lot of ways. Having your limbs jerked in directions your not expecting could result in some serious muscle strain, even if it doesn't go outside normal range of motion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelcyron Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 Re: Rationalize this.... Since you should NEVER buy levels through a focus, and it's cheese on earth to do so, this is the best course of action for balance and fair gameplay. Where on earth does it say that you shouldn't buy levels through a focus? Gadgets & Gear has the Combat Analyzer (p55) which includes, among other things, +2 with all combat, OIF. Kelcyron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 Re: Rationalize this.... The rules on this are clear. Since the character doesn't actually HAVE martial arts himself, the correct way to buy this is Hand to Hand attack and combat levels with the armor. Since you should NEVER buy levels through a focus, and it's cheese on earth to do so, this is the best course of action for balance and fair gameplay. Incorrect. By the 5th ed book, Penalty Skill Levels may be bought with a focus limitation. Combat Skill levels likewise may be used to increase OCV with focus limitation. The Hero System recognizes that certain ideas require that levels may need to be bought through a foci, so why not this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 Re: The Cyber Ninja Cyber Ninja 8 Tactical Subsytem (Library of Bio-Kinetic formulas for martial art and videogame fighting maneuvers) +4 Combat Skill Levels with Ninjutsu (12 Active Points); OIF (Battle Armor; -1/2) 7 Tactical Subsystem (Link Library to Visor) Defense Maneuver I-IV (10 Active Points); OIF (Battle Armor; -1/2) *snip* Pertinent bit only... The only prblem I'd have with it is that by the book, you can ony limit 5 point or higher CSL's. If you want to incrporate a "The computer can't repond properly because this is wierd" element then you might add a focused Analyze or KS:Fighting Styles skill and RSR on the levels. Or redo it as a computer. For 15 points you can build a pretty nifty one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Johnston Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 Re: Rationalize this.... How does the operator select targets for the suit to fight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeropoint Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 Re: Rationalize this.... Have they considered building the suit into a tuxedo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balabanto Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 Re: Rationalize this.... Where on earth does it say that you shouldn't buy levels through a focus? Gadgets & Gear has the Combat Analyzer (p55) which includes, among other things, +2 with all combat, OIF. Kelcyron Just because the rules give you the ABILITY to do something doesn't mean you SHOULD do something. If Gadgets and Gear has that, then fine, they built a gadget that does that. That doesn't mean that a smart GM should allow it. I remember the old Champions In 3-D supplement, where one of the characters was a "Jaeger." They had 7 or 8 OCV bought through a focus. It was outrageous. That was my first real experience with levels bought through a focus. I immediately disallowed it forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterD Posted October 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 Re: The Cyber Ninja *snip* Pertinent bit only... The only prblem I'd have with it is that by the book, you can ony limit 5 point or higher CSL's. If you want to incrporate a "The computer can't repond properly because this is wierd" element then you might add a focused Analyze or KS:Fighting Styles skill and RSR on the levels. Or redo it as a computer. For 15 points you can build a pretty nifty one. How would I do this as a computer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterD Posted October 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 Re: Rationalize this.... How does the operator select targets for the suit to fight? I thought there are multi-Targeting. 1 Targeting = where he is looking 1 Targeting = Where hisr fist is pointed at 1 targeting = Path of possible attack When all three lock he makes an attack and the system guides it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterD Posted October 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 Re: Rationalize this.... Have they considered building the suit into a tuxedo? Jackie Chan already did it. It might be a cheese to habe normal characteristics and have EVERYTHING ELSE as a VPP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterD Posted October 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 Re: Rationalize this.... I can't see any problem with it. Geeks have access to high systems capable of rendering the movies in 3d' date=' program in correct responses, etc. I would do one of two things as part of the system, though. Either make it so your limbs are not in the battle suits limbs when it throws a super fast punch, or have the suit interface with YOUR nerveous system so your actions are in coordination with the suit's. Even the later is pushing it in a lot of ways. Having your limbs jerked in directions your not expecting could result in some serious muscle strain, even if it doesn't go outside normal range of motion.[/quote'] Thinking the armor guides attacks instead of make them for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secretID Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 Re: Rationalize this.... [Only read half the posts before me...] Since the designers of the suit didn't know actual MAs, but just video game moves, I'd call it HA, DEX, etc. For one thing, there shouldn't be any defensive moves, since study of video games wouldn't give you a true understanding of defense. The offense is probably a bit better, but still no good, since video games focus on flashy moves that certainly wouldn't give an OCV bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterD Posted October 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 Re: Rationalize this.... [Only read half the posts before me...] Since the designers of the suit didn't know actual MAs, but just video game moves, I'd call it HA, DEX, etc. For one thing, there shouldn't be any defensive moves, since study of video games wouldn't give you a true understanding of defense. The offense is probably a bit better, but still no good, since video games focus on flashy moves that certainly wouldn't give an OCV bonus. Then probably tactical subsystem will be based on MA. Movies and Combat anaysis sot when CN sees an opening he can take it and if he sees an attack he can determine where it will land and block it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adventus Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 Re: Rationalize this.... The cool thing about this build is that the computer can also learn(have programmed into) new moves based on his foes. Just build in a recorder to record the battles. This alos gives me a great idea for an adventure for this character. One of his geek buddies is taping one of the character's battles and gets caught by the villain. Rescue time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garou Posted November 1, 2006 Report Share Posted November 1, 2006 Re: Rationalize this.... Have they considered building the suit into a tuxedo? No, because that would be just silly. You might as well claim that a chef can fight off multiple attackers who are after him due to a mislabelled VHS tape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secretID Posted November 1, 2006 Report Share Posted November 1, 2006 Re: Rationalize this.... Then probably tactical subsystem will be based on MA. Movies and Combat anaysis sot when CN sees an opening he can take it and if he sees an attack he can determine where it will land and block it. If the programming is based on real MA, I think it all works fine. IIRC, there's a similar character on the Global Guardians site - "X" or "Weapon X" or something. Also, haven't I seen reference on this site to a similar comic character called "Midnighter?" (I got the feeling he's very well known - forgive my ignorance.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelcyron Posted November 1, 2006 Report Share Posted November 1, 2006 Re: Rationalize this.... Just because the rules give you the ABILITY to do something doesn't mean you SHOULD do something. If Gadgets and Gear has that, then fine, they built a gadget that does that. That doesn't mean that a smart GM should allow it. I remember the old Champions In 3-D supplement, where one of the characters was a "Jaeger." They had 7 or 8 OCV bought through a focus. It was outrageous. That was my first real experience with levels bought through a focus. I immediately disallowed it forever. You found something distateful and created a house rule of "don't do that". There's nothing in the actual rules that says it's illegal. As AmadanNaBriona pointed out, you can only put lims on 5 point levels or higher (probably due to wishing to avoid too much roundoff bonus). The device listed above from G&G use 8 point levels, making it perfectly legal. I've never bought levels through a focus myself as I prefer to have my characters be able to do something even without their toys, but if it's appropriate to the build then it is a valid construction. Kelcyron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted November 1, 2006 Report Share Posted November 1, 2006 Re: Rationalize this.... You found something distateful and created a house rule of "don't do that". There's nothing in the actual rules that says it's illegal. As AmadanNaBriona pointed out, you can only put lims on 5 point levels or higher (probably due to wishing to avoid too much roundoff bonus). The device listed above from G&G use 8 point levels, making it perfectly legal. I've never bought levels through a focus myself as I prefer to have my characters be able to do something even without their toys, but if it's appropriate to the build then it is a valid construction. Kelcyron There are also a BUTTLOAD of weapons in the books that are purchased with +1 OCV or +1 Range etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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