McCoy Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 So I'm the only one who likes Ultron? (Speaking of murderous computers, just came back from watching T-3. Great. See it.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 Originally posted by McCoy So I'm the only one who likes Ultron? It was a grievous oversight on my part to leave off Ultron, the most arrogant, vicious, twisted killing machine ever built. His ambition not to rule mankind, but to exterminate and supplant it, is chilling in a way most villains aren't; he truly would stop at nothing. His complex connections to several Avengers make him their greatest enemy. And how many other villains allow us to watch the mightiest Marvel powerhouses throw everything they have at him, while he gets back up without a scratch? Besides, where would Mechanon be without him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 Originally posted by Lord Liaden It was a grievous oversight on my part to leave off Ultron, the most arrogant, vicious, twisted killing machine ever built. His ambition not to rule mankind, but to exterminate and supplant it, is chilling in a way most villains aren't; he truly would stop at nothing. His complex connections to several Avengers make him their greatest enemy. And how many other villains allow us to watch the mightiest Marvel powerhouses throw everything they have at him, while he gets back up without a scratch? Besides, where would Mechanon be without him? Someone mentioned him early on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Arrow Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 I didn't mention the Master, as he's not a comic-book villain. However, as don points out, Fu Manchu made it into comics and I wouldn't mind betting that the Master appeared in Doctor Who comic strips from time to time, so if that's enough, then I'll vote for him too. Also, Darren considered him good enough to be the villain of the Secret Crisis IIRC. I think Roger Delgado was more elegant and the fact that he was quite short made for an interesting contrast with Jon Pertwee. He also conveyed self-confidence, intelligence and control, along with a dry sense of humour (eg the bit in "The Sea Devils" where the warden actually believes the Master when he says that "The Clangers" are clearly very intelligent creatures). However, I think that Anthony Ainley had some poor scripts which required him to do little more than spout nonsense and laugh maniacally, so a direct comparison may be a little unfair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted July 5, 2003 Report Share Posted July 5, 2003 "Dan, I'm not a Republic serial villian. Do you seriously think I'd explain my masterstroke if there remained the slightest chance of you affecting its outcome? I did it thirty-five minutes ago." And that's why my vote goes to Ozymandias. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted July 5, 2003 Report Share Posted July 5, 2003 The whole problem with comparing Ozymandias or anyone else from the Watchmen to the mainstream is that they operate with an entirely different set of assumptions. If you take away the comic book conventions of mainstream comics, what do you think Darkseid or Mordru or Dr. Doom or Ultron would do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Rose Posted July 6, 2003 Report Share Posted July 6, 2003 Originally posted by Agent X The whole problem with comparing Ozymandias or anyone else from the Watchmen to the mainstream is that they operate with an entirely different set of assumptions. If you take away the comic book conventions of mainstream comics, what do you think Darkseid or Mordru or Dr. Doom or Ultron would do? Win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted July 6, 2003 Report Share Posted July 6, 2003 Originally posted by Black Rose Win. Heh, thanks for your support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern Cross Posted July 6, 2003 Report Share Posted July 6, 2003 Supervillains I generally agree with the list of supervillains.However there are some great villains that nobody has mentioned.Here they are: (1)The Ultra-Humanite.The first comic-book super-villain,and ranks with the Red Skull in ruthlessness.Also one of the smartest,as he pioneered the old "villain body-snatching " technique after his old crippled body was killed battling the Golden Age Superman.His brain was finally killed by the cursed vigilante Crimson in JSA) after he took control over the Badhnesian Thunderbolt and used it to conquer the world. (2)The Red Skull.The epitome of the Nazi menace.Still active,he's behind the whole "Red Zone" storyline currently running in Avengers. (3)The Dread Dormammu.The mightiest occult menace in the Marvel Universe.He ranks up with Darkseid in terms of sheer power and influence.Plus that flaming head of his makes a great visual statement. (4)Umar The Unrelenting.Contrary to what one poster has said,Umar is just as great a villain as her brother,the Dread Dormammu.The epitome of the Femme Fatale. (5)Mephista,the daughter of Mephisto.The epitome of the dutiful daughter,she may only have a fraction of his power,but that fraction puts her on Dr. Strange's power level.An interesting mix of naviety and raw sexuality. (6)Zom.So powerful and destructive,Eternity had to bind him in a mystic amphora,after he was bound and his eyes covered by a magic item.As his power dwarfed Umar's,Dr. Strange was forced to free him to save Earth from Umar.It took The Living Tribunal to re-imprison Zom. (7)Baron Mordo.Before he developed cancer,he was Dr. Strange's most implacable foe. (8)Baron Zemo (both of them).The ultimate evil aristocrats.The father killed both Bucky & the original Citizen V,while the son captured Avengers Mansion,and almost conquered the world. (9)Golgoth from the Empire comic book.This murderous megalomaniac will do anything to control the world,and ,unlike Doom, really wants to do so. (10)Kaluu.The Ancient One's power-crazed former mentor,he was forced to banish himself to a distant dimension,until the battle between Dormammu and Eternity enabled him to return.Dr. Strange was only able to defeat him by using the Book Of the Vishanti's ultimate defense-the invulnerable book can Reflect all magical attacks back upon the caster!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted July 6, 2003 Report Share Posted July 6, 2003 Let's not forget Korvac either. Any two-bit villain with the presence of mind to tap into Galactus' Ship's database deserves to become a cosmic villain that can kill members of the Avengers with a snap of the finger and bring them back again at a whim. Truly mighty with a tragic twist to the story. Count Nefaria rocks too. This guy was mighty enough to be in on the kill of an X-Man and swat the entire Avengers line-up with the combined and augmented power of the Twister, Power Man I, and the Living Laser. Basically, it was SuperMan on speed vs. the Avengers. If only the power wasn't too much for his body to contain... then Dr. Doom would have had to do something about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted July 6, 2003 Report Share Posted July 6, 2003 Evil is as Evil Does. From the Wild Card Books and Comics, I would like to add Puppet Master to the list. The man was so evil he killed his own unborn child because he saw it as a threat. A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted July 6, 2003 Report Share Posted July 6, 2003 Originally posted by Agent X Let's not forget Korvac either. Any two-bit villain with the presence of mind to tap into Galactus' Ship's database deserves to become a cosmic villain that can kill members of the Avengers with a snap of the finger and bring them back again at a whim. Truly mighty with a tragic twist to the story. Having just read the story in TPB form, I feel sympathy for Korvac and that storyline. One of my favourite villians. I saw his entry in the Marvel Handbook way before I read the story, and wasn't disappointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Soldier Posted July 6, 2003 Report Share Posted July 6, 2003 How many supervillains would live if there was no code-vs-killing? It's not that hard to run your own small country and carry out grandiose plots when there's no danger of taking a dirt nap as a result of your behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Schtroumpf Posted July 6, 2003 Report Share Posted July 6, 2003 Philip Nolan Voigt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted July 6, 2003 Report Share Posted July 6, 2003 Originally posted by Dog Soldier How many supervillains would live if there was no code-vs-killing? It's not that hard to run your own small country and carry out grandiose plots when there's no danger of taking a dirt nap as a result of your behavior. Very true. I have to think in the real world. Supers who didn't kill people who rampage through cities when they had the chance would be criticized heavily by the populace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Mhoram Posted July 6, 2003 Report Share Posted July 6, 2003 I'm coming into this one late so.... Doom. Magneto (for his deep characterization) Ultron Darkseid. Lex - I prefer the precrisis lex, primarily because of the childhood relationship between lex and clark and the reason he went villian. Joker Now a number of villians that have not been mentioned- primarily Legion of Superhero Villians. The Fatal Five - Especially the mid/late 80's Emerald Queen. Tharok, Validus, Persuader and Mano. Great team. Mordru - Great villian. Stupid weakness- and has been used to great effect in the current run of the JSA. And if you want a big hulking monstrosity and don't want to use a big lizard nothing beats the magesty of Chemo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted July 6, 2003 Report Share Posted July 6, 2003 The Fatal Five are absolutely cool! I can't believe I forgot them. Let's not forget Computo and Dr. Regulus and the Suneater. What about Time Trapper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Mhoram Posted July 7, 2003 Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 Originally posted by Agent X The Fatal Five are absolutely cool! I can't believe I forgot them. Let's not forget Computo and Dr. Regulus and the Suneater. What about Time Trapper? And the Miracle Machine. And Brainy when he went crazy, and how Matter Eater lad proved the points he spent to have the superpower to be able to eat anything were worth it. (If any non legion fans are interested I'll do a summation later). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightshade Posted July 7, 2003 Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 Molecule Man I like Molecule Man, just because he dropped a mountain range on most of the Marvel Heros during the Secret wars to impress Titania. That was truly great. Nightshade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted July 7, 2003 Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 Re: Molecule Man Originally posted by Nightshade I like Molecule Man, just because he dropped a mountain range on most of the Marvel Heros during the Secret wars to impress Titania. That was truly great. Nightshade Molecule Man mighty and mighty wierd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted July 7, 2003 Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 OK. Stepping outside the comics, but supervillain nonetheless... Dr. Marc DuQuesne, from the Skylark series. Heck, the fourth book of the series was named for him (Skylark DuQuesne), he carried the day when the heroes fell short (against a common foe), and he went out in style, carrying on his ambitions - to rule an entire galaxy, unmolested by the heroes. In other words - he won. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John515 Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 Thanos betaing Reed Richards in Chess Beating someone in 7 moves does not even a little impressive. If you get beat in 7 moves, it's because you simply don't know how to play. If you DO know how to play and you lose in 7 moves, you're just not very sharp. The Richards-Thanos matchup is just bad writing and an astounding lack of knowledge about the subject they're writing about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZootSoot Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 Originally posted by McCoy So I'm the only one who likes Ultron? (Speaking of murderous computers, just came back from watching T-3. Great. See it.) Ultron should have been on my list. The only master villain whose ambitions don't seem ludicrous when compared to what he has already achieved; I did despise the Jocasta storylines though, wtf is going on with the writers that they think Ultron is interested in sex (or even has a gender)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 Originally posted by ZootSoot Ultron should have been on my list. The only master villain whose ambitions don't seem ludicrous when compared to what he has already achieved; I did despise the Jocasta storylines though, wtf is going on with the writers that they think Ultron is interested in sex (or even has a gender)? The writers were thinking that Ultron is the personification of the Oedipeal complex, therefore he wants to kill his father (Hank Pym) and marry his mother, or at least his father's wife (Janet van Dyne Pym). (Jocasta was the name of Oedipus mother and wife.) Ultron has also said that while he despises all carbon-based life, he would find it boreing to be the only intelligence on the planet, which is why he tries to create family, the Vision, Jocasta, Alchema. Fortunately for the heros, Hank Pym's social skills have not kept pace with his intelligence, and Ultron ultimately creates a disfunctional family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZootSoot Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 Originally posted by McCoy The writers were thinking that Ultron is the personification of the Oedipeal complex, therefore he wants to kill his father (Hank Pym) and marry his mother, or at least his father's wife (Janet van Dyne Pym). (Jocasta was the name of Oedipus mother and wife.) Ultron has also said that while he despises all carbon-based life, he would find it boreing to be the only intelligence on the planet, which is why he tries to create family, the Vision, Jocasta, Alchema. Fortunately for the heros, Hank Pym's social skills have not kept pace with his intelligence, and Ultron ultimately creates a disfunctional family. Which is a fairly pointless diversion given that we have all of the necesary dysfunctional patterns within the Avengers themselves (I think dysfunctional is an entirely idiotic term, since it implies there is a "functional" norm). Ultron is at his most boring when the writers go Freudian (mostly because the writers themselves have a limited and lurid grasp of Freud and because many of Freud's central concepts have been largely dismissed). Having Ultron, a machine, become enmeshed in Freud's libidinal motivation complex is a serious waste of thematic potential and character development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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