Evolution of a Leader

[CrosshairCollie]

Just wondering here ... kind of informal poll, so there'll be no clicky-thing. How many people in here, in their Champions games, have a team with no real leader?

 

In my wife's Teen Champions game, we're pretty much in that boat. Usually, I get to be the leader, or more aptly, I HAVE to be the leader, because none of the other players have the inclination.

 

We were up against another homeroom at Ravenswood (GM-created characters), and since my character is NOT a leader type, I didn't really participate in the tactical planning. She wouldn't have stuck to the plan, anyway.

 

While the plans were being made, above board, though, I was thinking, "Bad idea. Bad idea. Bad idea." And I was right, as we lost pretty handily, due to poor threat analysis (the psi is more dangerous than the brick!) and failure to use brains (our water-user promptly forgot he had powers other than 'hose down').

 

Now, I keep having thoughts of changing characters to someone who takes this more seriously and can actually be a leader, but I don't want to. I like the character, the GM likes the character, the other players (if not necessarily their characters) like the character, but my brain is telling me to do what's more useful, not necessarily what's more fun.

 

The good news is, we're rookies, so we *should* make mistakes, and it was a training mission so no great shakes. It's not like anybody got crippled 'cause we didn't get it together (the other team wasn't really coordinated either ... they were just more skilled and powerful than we were).

 

So, the question is ... how do leaders evolve? Since I don't want to change characters, I need to figure out how and why someone who's primarily into the hero thing for the fame and to kick-start a showbiz career ('Sapphire Jr.') would actually start developping tactical savvy.

 

Help requested!

[Pariah]

Re: Evolution of a Leader

 

I'm tempted to say, "True leaders don't evolve. They're intelligently designed."

 

Okay, now for my real answer. My current campaign doesn't feature a 'team leader'. I'm just fortunate enough to have a gaming group that has a lot of really good players. What I have noticed, though, is that even without someone wearing the leader hat, they usually get things done pretty efficiently. Why? Because they communicate with one another. My players start conversations with each other--in character, mind you--about what's going on. Difficult situations become group problem-solving exercises, and problems get resolved.

 

So try starting conversations in character. If your fellow players are bright, they'll figure it out.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: Evolution of a Leader

 

The first question I'd have has a little to do with what Pariah said -- 'leaders don't evolve, they're designed'. However, all you really need for an effective 'true leader' is Int, Ego, and Pre. Intelligence, to be able to come up with a plan. Presence, to get everyone to go along with it. Ego, to keep going when the going gets tough. 13s minimum, but the higher the better. By design/inclination, you should have one of those attributes higher than each player in the game, which is to say that you may have a lower Int and Ego than the Psychic Mick, but if your Pre is higher, fine. That same Pre may be lower than StoneMan's, but if your Int is higher, good. So on and so forth.

 

All other necessary skills can be bought with XP.

 

What you need to do, though, in order to transform the character from 'Posing Powered Wonder' to 'Tactically-Savvy Posing Powered Wonder', is for your character to come to a few realizations, in addition to being told to put up or shut up. I envision it somewhat like this:

 

You (IC): "Bad Idea. That's a bad idea, too. Oooh, that's another bad idea."

Them: "Either come up with a good idea or shut up, okay?"

 

Later on, someone advises you: "You know, hero teams that get their heads handed to them don't get the press. Who's gonna be up on the podium at the end of the year, holding up the trophy for 'Most Kickass Study Group', you or them? Who would everyone be looking at, the team and team leader on the podium or the crummy group slouching in their seats?"

 

Your movie-star wannabe then gets to realize that hell, if she wants to get her face in the papers and her name in lights, having her team win is the way to do it. And if she can help her team to win -- especially if she's the leader of the team, who (let's face it) is always the person who gets the MOST press -- then she'll be on her way to stardom.

 

Your hero career can't kick-start your acting career if you're a failure as a hero ...

[Wolf]

Re: Evolution of a Leader

 

In my group that has played together for the past 15+ years we have two main GM's, and oddly enough we tend to lead when we aren't Gming.

I tend to get the leader when I'm playing (D&D3.5e) A Paladin, human and I got the position then, but I think that's because I wasn't lawful stupiding it.

I've noticed in my Old Teen champions game they all rejected the leadership, though not for trying... they want one... but they just can't get it together. Now we're restarting it, however they want me to make a leader NPC. I don't like that Idea due to personal philosophy, "it's no fun if you know the defense and the plan of attack" even if your good at separating the two halves of yourself, it's still a little weird. Not to mention I like to throw the PC's a problem, as complicated as I can make it, and have them think their way out... not really having one planned.

My opinion, Groups differ. I think this one is too scare of stepping on peoples feet, or angering the player by giving orders.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: Evolution of a Leader

 

In my old old group, we had three people who basically ran the show -- came up with the ideas, designed the tactics, pointed the group where we wanted it to go. Usually, one of the three of us ran the game -- Chris ran Battlelords of the 23rd Century, I ran ShadowRun, Dan ran Warhammer FRP. This meant, usually, that we rampaged, but not too terribly.

 

Unfortunately, Becca ran Champions.

 

Getting Dan, Chris and I all on the PC side for the most part meant instinctive use of superior tactics on the part of the players, and thus on the part of the characters. The telekinetic throws the villian into the same hex as the superstrong martial artist, who KB's him straight up to where the superstrong flying dragonman is, who KB's him straight down into the ground. One guy gets hit BAM BAM BAM BAM, the last BAM being the guy hitting the ground. One phase, and the guy's out like a light...

 

This wasn't abnormal; this was usual for us. Everyone else was more-or-less satellite to us, but when we hit a situation, each of us almost instinctively looked for a way to assist the other, to double-team a bad guy, whatever was required.

 

This, of course, is another route for your character to become 'Team Leader', Collie. 'Sapphire helped me take out Gargantua.' "Really? She helped me put down Flashpoint." 'You're kidding, right? 'Cause she helped -me- wrap up Flicker.' When it's become almost always a matter of 'I help Teammate B against Opponent Y', the others will start to look at you with a new eye. You aren't ordering them around -- you're simply doing what needs to be done. You act leaderly. (If that's a word.)

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Evolution of a Leader

 

I'm tempted to say' date=' "True leaders don't evolve. They're intelligently designed." [/quote']

 

That's actually part of the problem. Usually I design characters as leaders (usually in the 'torn with hidden self-doubt' motif going), or at least as being capable of it even if they don't stand up and go 'Okay, I'm in charge. You, do this, you do this'.

 

This is the first character I've ever tried to play who's going to need to pull a Janet Van Dyne and start out as a ditz and grow into the role.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Evolution of a Leader

 

My group's players all have several characters they rotate playning and there is no real leader. Some characters are more assertive than others but theyr'e more like a meeting of equals. Then again my players have no formalized group. For team action they hang out at the local ( and premier) superteam headquarters.

[Edsel]

Re: Evolution of a Leader

 

Except for the times we have played things like Avengers or X-Men Hero I don't recall ever having a leader in a game. In my current Dark Champions game the group has no formal leader but one is sort of an informal leader since he seems to come up with more logical courses of action than the others. In the past our groups have sometimes had problems because everyone is too conciliatory.

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Evolution of a Leader

 

If you don't want your character to become a leader-type, find another character and support THEM becoming the leader. When they make a halfway reasonable suggestion, back it to the hilt. Ask them questions to set them up for the good choices - "So Jujuman, do you think we should try to sneak into the enemy base or just knock on the front door and allow them time to evacuate?" If a couple characters strongly follow a particular line, the others will often follow.

[Karmakaze]

Re: Evolution of a Leader

 

I hardly ever run characters that want to be in charge - I've wound up morphing into a team leader a few times more or less out of - "I'm tired of idiots telling me what to do. The only way to avoid being told to do things I think are stupid is to be the idiot telling people what to do!"

 

Probably my most successful leader character was Doctor Dragonfly, who you'd never have picked as a leader-type from the start - she started out as a laid-back college student who never asked for superpowers and mostly wanted to pass all of her classes. Oddly, the laid-backness was a big part of what got her the team leader role. When the previous leader left, he named her in his place because the other choices were either inexperienced, or would cause conflict with other team members (neither of the alpha males would listen to each other, both would listen to Dragonfly). Plus, as the team brick, everyone knew how much force she could bring to bear if she wanted to. Once she had the job, though, she turned out to be a very good coordinator and listener; her laid-back nature meant she never flew off the handle[1] or panicked in a crisis and had the patience to argue down PCs into a consensus.

 

Given that you're looking at a Teen Champions game, could you ask the GM to assign a student as team leader (maybe give each student one shot at it) and allow your character to "rise to the challenge"?

 

 

 

 

[1] I lost my temper exactly once as Dragonfly, and it was striking enough that it's one of the classic gaming "there-I-was" stories in our group now.

[StGrimblefig]

Re: Evolution of a Leader

 

... I need to figure out how and why someone who's primarily into the hero thing for the fame and to kick-start a showbiz career ('Sapphire Jr.') would actually start developping tactical savvy.

Step one: have the character realize that, in the "real world" (i.e. outside the school), the team leader gets more recognition (both good and bad) than the other team members, usually gets more screen time and is the first (and sometimes the only) team member interviewed (win or lose).

 

Step two: Having realized that leadership is an avenue to fame, she needs to find out how to be a leader (or at least how to fake it convincingly). In a Teen Champs setting, this might mean emulating or asking advice from a teacher/adviser, and older student leader, and/or a famous hero.

 

Steps three through n: the 80's music montage ("Legally Blonde"-style? or maybe "Back To School"-style?). She will try (and fail with) several things before becoming the leader she was meant to be.

 

As the title of the thread says, it is an evolution, not an event. It will take time, and trials, but it could be a good side plot of personal growth for the character.

[Zed-F]

Re: Evolution of a Leader

 

Soulbarb is more of a lone operative than a leader sort, but when push comes to shove she has the brains and ability to act as a leader. Normally she doesn't have a team (or her team is something like herself and one other guy) so usually it's a moot point anyway.

 

Sylph is a member of the New Pantheon, but that's more of an association of heroes than a team, and doesn't have a leader. In any case, Sylph is not leader material by any stretch of the imagination. While bright enough, she's short on savvy (tactical and otherwise) as well as self-confidence. Give her a few years of active superheroing to mature, and things could change... but not until then. So far, the New Pantheon's lack of a leader hasn't posed much of a problem as we're all generally off doing our own things anyway. The one time we had a combined fight, it was a bit disorganized, but our GM seems to be tolerant of that sort of thing and things worked out anyway.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: Evolution of a Leader

 

Soulbarb is more of a lone operative than a leader sort' date=' but when push comes to shove she has the brains and ability to act as a leader. Normally she doesn't have a team (or her team is something like herself and one other guy) so usually it's a moot point anyway.[/quote']

 

Not for long, buddy boy.