Swallowing a Man Whole

[DrFaust]

In putting together material for an upcoming game, I find myself faced with the following: do you model a creature that can swallow a person whole? My initial thought is some weird kind of Grapple with a Continuous Damage Shield, only while grappling, to represent gastric juices.

 

Has someone else already invented this wheel?

[archermoo]

Re: Swallowing a Man Whole

 

I'd say an entangle linked to a uncontrolled continuous attack that only works while they are held by the entangle would be the way to go. Potentially throwing in a side effect of the entangle that the "owner" of the entangle takes any damage done to the entangle.

[Fitz]

Re: Swallowing a Man Whole

 

In putting together material for an upcoming game, I find myself faced with the following: do you model a creature that can swallow a person whole? My initial thought is some weird kind of Grapple with a Continuous Damage Shield, only while grappling, to represent gastric juices.

 

Has someone else already invented this wheel?

 

Gastric juices would probably only be an issue to someone who doesn't have to breathe; they're relatively weak, and take a long time to dissolve large masses. Long before they'd have a noticeable effect, the swallowee (?) would be crushed and asphyxiated, unless you're talking about a creature like Leviathan, with a gullet large enough to walk around in.

 

For something like a giant anaconda, once the victim has been swallowed (a simple Grab would do the trick; maybe several in succession if you want to string out the suspense) I'd have it doing Continuous Uncontrolled Casual STR (i.e. crushing) damage, while the victim would use the rules for drowning, and I guess would need to make a STR-vs-STR roll to be able to move limbs -- to cut themselves free with a knife, for example.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: Swallowing a Man Whole

 

Also that the entangle can be attacked from the inside normally -- at least presuming that it's a REALLY big beast, and that you can move your arms around and such.

[Frenchman]

Re: Swallowing a Man Whole

 

Hero System Bestiary, page 33

[keithcurtis]

Re: Swallowing a Man Whole

 

I suppose you might feel compelled to model this, simply so the characters can react to it, but I don't know if I'd make a creature who happens to be larger than a human pay points for the ability. It just is.Otherwise, why not have ALL characters buy it? A human might be able to swallow a pixie.

 

Keith "for certain values of pixie" Curtis

[RDU Neil]

Re: Swallowing a Man Whole

 

I will go against the grain of most Herophiles and say, "You don't have to model such a creature with the rules. Just say it is so."

 

Or more specifically... model the creature as normal... make it big with growth or size standards or whatever... and the "swallowing hole" is simply an "environmental effect" of the creature.

 

It is SFX, essentially.

 

Think of it this way... you don't model every ramification of a character... you model the basic mechanical effects, and the rest happens in a "makes sense" manner.

 

If a strong character is fighting in a shipping yard and starts picking up and slamming empty containers down over his opponents, trapping them inside... you don't make him pay for this as a power, do you? It is an environmental effect of combat.

 

If a large character with growth bends over to shield his teammates from a falling building... it just happens as SFX of the power... you don't say "You can't do that unless you have PD/ED usable by others!" (Or at least I hope you don't.)

 

Same thing here. This is a grab, with the unique SFX being "you are inside the beast" rather than "It has you in its hand or tentacle or talon!" It just is.

 

Fitz actually is saying the same thing. It is basically just a hold and squeeze... and the target fights back in a basic STR vs. STR battle. If this is a large beast vs. a normal level character... likely the STR is overwhelming and the poor PC is dead meat.

 

If this is a situation of Jonah in the whale... small human actually has room to survive and isn't being actively crushed right away... then again it is environmental. You don't stat out a locked room without light and running out of air... you just say "You wake in a dark room with no lights and the air is rank and thin." Do the same here. "After the Purple Worm grabbed you, it lifted up and let you slide down its throat. You wake up in a foul and wet chamber with no light and nauseating smells."

 

Then... just a like a character in a room might try to hack down a wall with his ax... a character in a stomach will do the same... rule accordingly.

 

The point being you do NOT have to pre-stat out every detail. Environmental effects "Just are" and should be ruled accordingly. Falling into the gullet of a purple worm should require no more "statting" out than falling into a jungle cave. They are both just environmental effects... and role play it out the same way.

[RDU Neil]

Re: Swallowing a Man Whole

 

I suppose you might feel compelled to model this' date=' simply so the characters can react to it, but I don't know if I'd make a creature who happens to be larger than a human pay points for the ability. It just [i']is[/i].Otherwise, why not have ALL characters buy it? A human might be able to swallow a pixie.

 

Keith "for certain values of pixie" Curtis

 

And Keith said everything I said in a much more short and concise way.

 

Thank you, Keith!

[zornwil]

Re: Swallowing a Man Whole

 

To expand a little on keithcurtis'/RDU Neil's argument, I would just add that the important aspect is "how do you get out." If you want it to be purely HERO-mechanical entangle-escaping, for example, then I would argue that modeling it makes some sense. But I tend to feel that, as Keith and Neil suggest, it's best left to an environmental effect as it will also leave your players quite open and inventive in how they get out (especially depending on how you construct this scenario and the type of PCs and whether the swallowing is by a sensitive, sentient beast that just happens to be ignorant of the humans and their own sentience, that sort of thing).

 

But, to counter the Keith and Neil point at the same time, if all you want is "cut your way out of an Entangle" (which I think is less fun, IMHO), then model it as an Entangle.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Swallowing a Man Whole

 

Hero System Bestiary' date=' page 33[/quote']

 

Indeed. If you can't check the Bestiary, here are the basics: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51370

[keithcurtis]

Re: Swallowing a Man Whole

 

I wasn't against modeling it. I just didn't think it was something a character needed to pay points for. To use the example above, slamming shipping containers down on someone probably is modeled as an entangle, for combat purposes. But the character shouldn't pay for the ability.

 

Keith "That's the way I'd run it, anyway" Curtis

[Sean Waters]

Re: Swallowing a Man Whole

 

OK, acknowledging the perfect sense made by the 'swallowing is something anyone can do and what you can swallow is just a function of size' crowd, here's how I'd set about modelling it.

 

1. I'd decide what I was after. The size of the swallower determines your basic approach: a grab might work for a creature now much bigger than a normal character: the swallower would almost certainly sufffer the combat penalties a grab imposes. A monstrous creature as tall as a building will NOT be halving thir DCV just because they have swallowed a character. So, size matters.

 

2. I'd decide on what mechancis Iw anted to get the target swallowed and for them to escape. That would help decide whether I used an entangle, some sort of force wall with feedback, EDM, whatever.

 

3. I'd snigger a bit at the thread title and mention an ex who....well, maybe not in this forum

 

Basically this is not a modelling solution, it is an approach to modelling toolkit. I hope it is of some use. Tell more about the beastie in question and a more specific answer may well be forthcoming. Or I might do more of the number 3 anecdote

[Blue]

Re: Swallowing a Man Whole

 

Why would anyone want to swallow a manhole?

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Swallowing a Man Whole

 

I don't think Superman wanted to, but Ursa came close to feeding him one.

[DrFaust]

Re: Swallowing a Man Whole

 

Hero System Bestiary' date=' page 33[/quote']

 

Works for me! Much simpler than statting out a special power.

[DrFaust]

Re: Swallowing a Man Whole

 

I suppose you might feel compelled to model this' date=' simply so the characters can react to it, but I don't know if I'd make a creature who happens to be larger than a human pay points for the ability. It just [i']is[/i].Otherwise, why not have ALL characters buy it? A human might be able to swallow a pixie.

 

You know, I agree. I was really hesitant about starting this thread because I'm the one usually thinking to myself, "They don't really need to write that up. Just wave a hand and make it so," when I read this particular sub-forum.

 

And yet, I wanted to have some guidance in how to adjudicate such a thing without going completely with handwaving. I like the solution in the Bestiary, though I suspect I'll ignore the size strictures with regards to this particular critter.

[Sir Ofeelya]

Re: Swallowing a Man Whole

 

In putting together material for an upcoming game' date=' I find myself faced with the following: do you model a creature that can swallow a person whole? [/quote']

 

I would model it on a girlfriend I had in the 80s.

[massey]

Re: Swallowing a Man Whole

 

Depends entirely on what you want the effect to be. In many games, if you're swallowed, you're just dead. So an 8D6 killing attack, or something like that, would be perfect for a fantasy game. "Sorry, Ragnar, you're dead. He swallowed you." Or, if you wanted to be gross, you could use a Transform, continuous, to... well, the less said there, the better.

[gojira]

Re: Swallowing a Man Whole

 

I can see allowing this for "free" if someone has bought enough Growth. Lots of Growth.

 

Otherwise, Extra Limbs, only for GRAB ("the maw") plus NND suffocation. Or so.