Extra Arms for Blocking

[saiyanslayer]

I was thinking how you would use the character creation rules to make a character with more than one set of limbs dedicate a set for blocking in combat. Would you have a spd increase only for the blocking manuever? How would you do that?

[Edsel]

Re: Extra Arms for Blocking

 

Technically the easiest way to do it would be to simply buy a couple of extra limbs and a couple of levels with DCV and specify the FX as being that the character blocks with his extra limbs. In a case like this you might even be justified in putting a Restrainable (-1/2) limitation on the DCV levels.

 

Of course this option does not allow for follow-up benefits that a normal Block receives.

[1EyedJack]

Re: Extra Arms for Blocking

 

Technically the easiest way to do it would be to simply buy a couple of extra limbs and a couple of levels with DCV and specify the FX as being that the character blocks with his extra limbs. In a case like this you might even be justified in putting a Restrainable (-1/2) limitation on the DCV levels.

 

Of course this option does not allow for follow-up benefits that a normal Block receives.

 

You might want to buy levels with block, and martial block to represent the extra limbs.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Extra Arms for Blocking

 

You might want to buy levels with block' date=' and martial block to represent the extra limbs.[/quote']

 

This is pretty routinely how I template multiarmed critters in my FH game. I generally model it as 2 Levels per extra set of arms, and the levels apply to Sweep, Rapid Fire, Block (and Martial Block), Missle Deflection or anything else that takes a cumulative penalty for multiple actions (I think thats about it)

[jtelson]

Re: Extra Arms for Blocking

 

I would generally go with extra levels, whatever you feel is limb appropriate. Extra speed only for XXX, is a can of bees I generally try to avoid.

[Checkmate]

Re: Extra Arms for Blocking

 

One possibility is Duplication, Duplicate can only block.

[saiyanslayer]

Re: Extra Arms for Blocking

 

One possibility is Duplication' date=' Duplicate can only block.[/quote']

 

that sounds great, but it sounds very complex... how would you do it? How would you get to prevent the game from acting like there was two yous?

[Checkmate]

Re: Extra Arms for Blocking

 

Duplication (creates 200-point form), Cannot Recombine (+0), Altered Duplicates (100%; +1) (80 Active Points); Duplicate Can Only Block for Main Form (-2), Both Exsist in Same Form (-1/2)

 

Something like that I suppose would work. Now the numbers I've just pulled from the air. Not sure you really need a 200 point form just to block (all you really need is DEX) and not sure if it would be 100% Different since I imagine it would be the same DEX, and not sure what Can only block and In the same form would be, all that is left up to the GM's discretion.

 

Now the disadvantages to doing it this way would be, essentially your duplicate would act first the next phase not the main character. Two ways I see around this:

1. Change the limitation on the Duplicate to say "Only to Block, and strike first after the block. That would also mean you have to buy STR and whatever other attack powers you would use after the block.

 

2. Buy CSL's that only work after your duplicate has blocked for you:

+2 with DCV (10 Active Points); Only for HtH Combat (-1/4), Only vs. Person Duplicate Has Blocked (-1/4)

 

+2 with HTH Combat (10 Active Points); Only for OCV (-1/4), Only vs. Person Duplicate Has Blocked (-1/4)

 

And then buy Lightning Reflexes:

Lightning Reflexes: +10 DEX to act first with All Actions (15 Active Points); Only to Act Before Person Duplicate Has Blocked (-1/2)

 

Personally I would go with option number 2.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Extra Arms for Blocking

 

Extra CSL's is good for characters with extra limbs to simulate being able to attack/block more.

 

However, for a character with extra limbs dedicated to defense, buy the extra limbs as an Automaton with their own STR, DEX, BOD, SPD etc. All they do is block/Missile Deflect for the character.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Extra Arms for Blocking

 

I've done the superior HTH combatant because I have more arms than you concept with Extra Limbs plus +X w/ HTH Combat, with X usually equaling half the number of limbs. So a 4 armed guy would simply have +2 w/ HTH combat. I feel this better represents how extra limbs can help you in combat. If you'd like, you can always use a pair for blocking, applying the +2 to DCV, but this way you also have the option to go all out offense and use those limbs to pound away, essentially becoming more accurate because you're throwing more punches.

 

I also would never put Restrainable on CSLs. I feel they are already restrainable by default. After all, if you are Entangled, your DCV is 0 regardless of how many levels you can apply to it.

[Silbeg]

Re: Extra Arms for Blocking

 

This is pretty routinely how I template multiarmed critters in my FH game. I generally model it as 2 Levels per extra set of arms' date=' and the levels apply to Sweep, Rapid Fire, Block (and Martial Block), Missle Deflection or anything else that takes a cumulative penalty for multiple actions (I think thats about it)[/quote']

 

With or without an implicit limitation to only over-ride the multiple "penalty"?

 

In other words, the levels can only be applied so that they do not exceed the "unaltered" OCV of the blocker/sweeper/etc...

 

that's how I'd do it! (In fact, that's how I rewrote Grond... I hate the extra SPD for attacks only)

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Extra Arms for Blocking

 

How about essentially the same effect for Missle Deflection?

 

Has anyone figured out a way to allow a Cyclops-like character?

(All powers have same point of origin = Eyes)

 

I see 2 different issues here (that apply to both Block and Missle Deflection).

 

How to grant bonuses to multiple attempts.

How to make this semi-automatic. (maybe via Trigger?)

 

Say Cyclops is being attacked by Thing and Human Torch. His best option is to Missle Deflect any attack from HT. His best option against Thing is to blast him with a x2 KB EB. Even though both options are using the same optic blast power in the comics, in HERO they can't both be done in the same phase since they are mutually exclusive 'attack' actions.

 

Thoughts welcome.

[Rapier]

Re: Extra Arms for Blocking

 

One of the most important aspects, from my point of view is cost vs utility. Going the duplication route is going to cost you quite a few points for very little utility.

 

Your best bet is to go with a couple of extra HtH levels. Due to SFX I would probably even allow an MPA with a Block. Block with one set of hands and Strike with the other.

[Checkmate]

Re: Extra Arms for Blocking

 

How about essentially the same effect for Missle Deflection?

 

Has anyone figured out a way to allow a Cyclops-like character?

(All powers have same point of origin = Eyes)

 

I see 2 different issues here (that apply to both Block and Missle Deflection).

 

How to grant bonuses to multiple attempts.

How to make this semi-automatic. (maybe via Trigger?)

 

Say Cyclops is being attacked by Thing and Human Torch. His best option is to Missle Deflect any attack from HT. His best option against Thing is to blast him with a x2 KB EB. Even though both options are using the same optic blast power in the comics, in HERO they can't both be done in the same phase since they are mutually exclusive 'attack' actions.

 

Thoughts welcome.

Barring the Duplication like I said above, the only way I could think would be DCV's to represent this. The effect is the same, he takes no damage. Not sure how else to do it.

[Checkmate]

Re: Extra Arms for Blocking

 

One of the most important aspects, from my point of view is cost vs utility. Going the duplication route is going to cost you quite a few points for very little utility.

 

Your best bet is to go with a couple of extra HtH levels. Due to SFX I would probably even allow an MPA with a Block. Block with one set of hands and Strike with the other.

The duplication as written cost 23 points For the duplication, and 24 points for the skill levels and Lightning Reflexes. That's 47 points to be able to block EVERY punch regardless if you've attacked that phase or not. I think that's a pretty fair cost/benefit ratio. Not to mention you wouldn't need 200 point duplicate, you probably only need a 50 point (if that) depending on SPD and DEX.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Extra Arms for Blocking

 

Barring the Duplication like I said above' date=' the only way I could think would be DCV's to represent this. The effect is the same, he takes no damage. Not sure how else to do it.[/quote']

 

 

Write up Cyclops Optic Blast power as a computer. The Optic Blast multipower are usable by others: Same time, so that both the computer and Cyclops can use the multipower simultaneously.

[Checkmate]

Re: Extra Arms for Blocking

 

Write up Cyclops Optic Blast power as a computer. The Optic Blast multipower are usable by others: Same time' date=' so that both the computer and Cyclops can use the multipower simultaneously.[/quote']

Or that. I have a personal bias against things like that. I don't like using Automations, AI's, Computers, or Vechicles as character's powers. I mean if you want a Motorcycle, cool buy a vehicle, if you want Iron Man's armor buy powers with the appropriate limitation. That's just my personal hang up, I think it's a cheap way to get some pretty powerful things that can easily by pass the active point caps (or even the Character Point cap, 350/5 is a lot cheaper than 350) so none of my builds will ever use them.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Extra Arms for Blocking

 

Or that. I have a personal bias against things like that. I don't like using Automations' date=' AI's, Computers, or Vechicles as character's powers. I mean if you want a Motorcycle, cool buy a vehicle, if you want Iron Man's armor buy powers with the appropriate limitation. That's just my personal hang up, I think it's a cheap way to get some pretty powerful things that can easily by pass the active point caps (or even the Character Point cap, 350/5 is a lot cheaper than 350) so none of my builds will ever use them.[/quote']

 

I see where you're coming from, but using a Computer is the most cost effective way of modelling the effect described. Didn't say it wouldn't be munchkin.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Extra Arms for Blocking

 

How about essentially the same effect for Missle Deflection?

 

Has anyone figured out a way to allow a Cyclops-like character?

(All powers have same point of origin = Eyes)

 

I see 2 different issues here (that apply to both Block and Missle Deflection).

 

How to grant bonuses to multiple attempts.

How to make this semi-automatic. (maybe via Trigger?)

 

Say Cyclops is being attacked by Thing and Human Torch. His best option is to Missle Deflect any attack from HT. His best option against Thing is to blast him with a x2 KB EB. Even though both options are using the same optic blast power in the comics, in HERO they can't both be done in the same phase since they are mutually exclusive 'attack' actions.

 

Thoughts welcome.

 

I've never really seen or heard of Cyclops using his optic blasts in this manner. While it's all coming from his eyes, he's using it differently, in much the same way you might use your arms differently for punching and blocking, but you can't do both at the same time (though you might do one then the other immediately after). I have seen Cyclops fire a wide beam to KB several targets though, and if HT and the Thing are close enough to each he might try that.

 

Of course, if you wanted an extra pair of eyes that exclusively fire deflecting blasts, then you run into issues like we have with the extra arms thing.

[braincraft]

Re: Extra Arms for Blocking

 

I don't think it's a flaw that Cyclops would probably get his ass kicked if he fought two or more members of the FF at once.

[Remjin]

Re: Extra Arms for Blocking

 

Wasn't there a write up of extra limbs like this in Gadgets & Gear or USDB? They did it as a follower. Weird, but it might work, but with similar results as an automaton, etc.

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Extra Arms for Blocking

 

Duplication for the expensive version, extra lvls help with blocking for the cheap, everything that's been mentioned here is good stuff

[saiyanslayer]

Re: Extra Arms for Blocking

 

yea, I really like the duplication version. But what would the Same Body (-1/2) penalty entail? Would the duplicate use the main character's end, and share the same stun/body? Seems like a low limitation for such a penalty (unless you don't spend the duplicate's points on end and stun)

[Checkmate]

Re: Extra Arms for Blocking

 

That would be my guess. Don't buy STUN for the duplicate...Does blocking cost END? I've never had it cost END, but if so even that's cheap for the Duplicate. All you'd need would be DEX, SPD and END.