i Can't Die! No matter How Much I want To!

[Michael Hopcroft]

The thread on Japanese Gothic is provoking me to pose the question to the rules guru about a guy who, no matter how much or how severe the damage he takes, cannot die.

 

He still suffers the effects of his wounds. He still feels the pain from them. He can't use limbs that get chopped off or crushed.If you decapitate him, he still lives but can't do much of anything. You can even chop him into bite-sized pieces and feed him to the crocodiles, but he still won't be dead. Unable to give you any trouble, and suffering things that human beings cannot imagine, perhaps, but not dead. More's the pity (for him).

 

Since a power like this utterly defies the standard method of writing up characters in HERO, is there a way to do it?

[Killer Shrike]

Re: i Can't Die! No matter How Much I want To!

 

The thread on Japanese Gothic is provoking me to pose the question to the rules guru about a guy who, no matter how much or how severe the damage he takes, cannot die.

 

He still suffers the effects of his wounds. He still feels the pain from them. He can't use limbs that get chopped off or crushed.If you decapitate him, he still lives but can't do much of anything. You can even chop him into bite-sized pieces and feed him to the crocodiles, but he still won't be dead. Unable to give you any trouble, and suffering things that human beings cannot imagine, perhaps, but not dead. More's the pity (for him).

 

Since a power like this utterly defies the standard method of writing up characters in HERO, is there a way to do it?

Sounds like the power of "plot device" to me.

[incrdbil]

Re: i Can't Die! No matter How Much I want To!

 

Well, since you dont mention he has any form of healing--ie, any wound he takes will recover like a normal person (or not in the case of limbs)--sounds like he would have no power at all, unless he doesnt age, and you want to take LS self contained breathi0ng since he cant suffocate. Or maybe he can--would the lack of oxygen lead to brain damage that incapacitates him?

 

Sentient, if badly decomposed, tissue really isnt a viable character.

[Dreadnought]

Re: i Can't Die! No matter How Much I want To!

 

Maybe give him a bunch of body, Only To Prevent Death. Also, you could give him 1 die of regeneration, Only To Prevent Bleeding To Death. It isn't a perfect solution, but the extra body will prevent him from reaching the negative of his starting body very easily, and the regeneration will make sure that even when he's at really low body he won't degrade over time. However, unless someone else steps in and heals him, he's just going to have to heal normally.

[Vestnik]

Re: i Can't Die! No matter How Much I want To!

 

What happens if he's vaporized into his component atoms?

[Shaft]

Re: i Can't Die! No matter How Much I want To!

 

+100 BODY (or more) with the Fully Invisible Advantage and the limitation "Does not add to the values to calculate incapacitating/disabling wounds".

[Maccabe]

Re: i Can't Die! No matter How Much I want To!

 

Is there some reason why HEALING with the Adder Resurrection wouldn't work?

No matter how ' death' occurs the character comes back again and again.

He cannot die permanently, like in Highlander the immortals die but come back.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: i Can't Die! No matter How Much I want To!

 

What if he's not really here?

 

Here, There And Everywhere

 

52 1) Clairsentience (Sight, Touch, Smell/Taste And Hearing Groups), Discriminatory, Mobile Perception Point (can move up to 6" per Phase), Single Dimension, Targeting, Transmit, Sense Affected As Another Sense (+0), Inherent (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (184 Active Points); Fixed Perception Point (-1), Blackout (-1/2), Always On (-1/2), Sense Affected As More Than One Sense [very common Sense] (-1/2) - END=0

 

44 2) Sight, Hearing, Smell/Taste, Touch and Mental Groups Images 1" radius, +/-6 to PER Rolls, Inherent (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Transdimensional (Single Dimension; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (132 Active Points); Set Effect (-1), Always On (-1/2), Linked (Clairsentience; Greater Power is Constant or in use most or all of the time; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; -1/2) - END=0

 

56 3) Telekinesis (10 STR), Affects Porous, Fine Manipulation, Inherent (+1/4), Variable Targets (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Transdimensional (Single Dimension; +1/2), Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible; +1) (140 Active Points); Always On (-1/2), Linked (Clairsentience; Greater Power is Constant or in use most or all of the time; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; -1/2), Restrainable (-1/2) - END=0

[TaxiMan]

Re: i Can't Die! No matter How Much I want To!

 

Nice, Hyper-Man! Just for fun, is it OK to Link to an Inherent Power?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: i Can't Die! No matter How Much I want To!

 

Nice' date=' Hyper-Man! Just for fun, is it OK to Link to an Inherent Power?[/quote']

 

I dunno. Linked may not be the best Limitation but it's as close as I could find without having to make one up. The idea is that the Images and TK represent his 'body' and the Clairsentience represents his senses. All have to be used together. The idea is that the guy is like the 'spoon' in the matrix therefore he can't die. Or maybe an ascended being like those in SG-1 except he has amnesia about his powers.

 

I'm sure plenty of other limitatons could be stacked onto the construct like Side Effects.

 

Everything else from the original post can then be modelled as Psychological Limitations. Similar to earlier explanations of Flash's powers where the main reason he couldn't fly was that he didn't believe he could.

[Mister E]

Re: i Can't Die! No matter How Much I want To!

 

So the guy remains conscious and animate no matter what happens to him? Past when all natural bodily functions have called it quits? He no longer heals BODY or takes recoveries, just like he's really dead?

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: i Can't Die! No matter How Much I want To!

 

So the guy remains conscious and animate no matter what happens to him? Past when all natural bodily functions have called it quits? He no longer heals BODY or takes recoveries' date=' just like he's really dead?[/quote']

 

Conscious, yes. Animate, not if he is no longer capable of movement. he can't will pieces of himself that have been cut off to come back to him or move on their own. You could put him back together and bring him back, with the proper set of powers of your own.

 

One thing he does do is feel -- most specifically pain. Reduce him to his component atoms and he would not be able to scream in agony because he has nothing to scream with -- but, if he could, he would. The basic point is that this is not, on the whole, a desirable ability for someone to have.

[archermoo]

Re: i Can't Die! No matter How Much I want To!

 

Conscious, yes. Animate, not if he is no longer capable of movement. he can't will pieces of himself that have been cut off to come back to him or move on their own. You could put him back together and bring him back, with the proper set of powers of your own.

 

One thing he does do is feel -- most specifically pain. Reduce him to his component atoms and he would not be able to scream in agony because he has nothing to scream with -- but, if he could, he would. The basic point is that this is not, on the whole, a desirable ability for someone to have.

 

Sounds like it is a matter of the special effects of the character, rather than a power or disad. It could lead to other disads (extreme fear of "death", etc) but I don't see it being one in and of itself. At least not in a game limiting fashion. Granted it would suck to simply exist in a state of pain instead of dying when you are blown apart, but if he cannot actually do anything I don't see it needing to be purchased as a game mechanic.

[input.jack]

Re: i Can't Die! No matter How Much I want To!

 

Um....no offense...but if he cant regrow lost limbs or organs, and if he just heals at a "normal" rate...thats a stupid character idea.

 

He gets ONE unusually gruesome event, and then hes no longer playable at all.

 

Whee.

 

If he regenerated, that changes things.

 

I am currently playing a character who cannot stay dead. Injuries heal about twice as fast as normal when the character is awake (which isnt -really- all that fast, if you think about it). If the character is badly injured and goes to sleep, even broken bones will have healed by the time the character wakes up. If the character is killed, then the amount of time it takes for the body to repair itself, or, if necessary, to create a new body (somehow; the character does not know how this is happening) is determined by the severity of the injuries. Three days is the record so far, but another character with identical powers (a relative) was decapitated, mouth stuffed with garlic and buried at a crossroads, the bosdy burned and the ashes scattered into a running river.

 

That took about a week to recover from.

 

THAT character is similar to the one you describe, in that injuries hurt just as much as for a normal person, pain is bad bad bad, and the character's capabilites are not "superhuman".

 

But where my character has long-term playability, the character you describe does not. Once a person is diced and atomized...thats it. Youre never coming back.

 

Horrific.

 

Not fun.

[Vestnik]

Re: i Can't Die! No matter How Much I want To!

 

Conscious, yes. Animate, not if he is no longer capable of movement. he can't will pieces of himself that have been cut off to come back to him or move on their own. You could put him back together and bring him back, with the proper set of powers of your own.

 

One thing he does do is feel -- most specifically pain. Reduce him to his component atoms and he would not be able to scream in agony because he has nothing to scream with -- but, if he could, he would. The basic point is that this is not, on the whole, a desirable ability for someone to have.

 

If he were reduced to atoms his nervous system would be gone too, and so he couldn't feel pain.

[OddHat]

Re: i Can't Die! No matter How Much I want To!

 

It's a pointless power set, but you'd build him with 20d6 of Heal STUN and BODY, Trigger: When reduced to under -9 STUN or Body, only to -9 STUN and Body, Resurrection Adder. He can now be chopped up as fine as you like, but will never fully pass out or die. PsychLimits Depressed and Self Pitying optional.

[OddHat]

Re: i Can't Die! No matter How Much I want To!

 

If he were reduced to atoms his nervous system would be gone too' date=' and so he couldn't feel pain.[/quote']

 

People who believe in the soul usually argue that you don't need a brain to think or a nervous system to feel. The majority of Americans believe this, so it must be true.

[jelloflechette]

Re: i Can't Die! No matter How Much I want To!

 

Conscious, yes. Animate, not if he is no longer capable of movement. he can't will pieces of himself that have been cut off to come back to him or move on their own. You could put him back together and bring him back, with the proper set of powers of your own.

 

One thing he does do is feel -- most specifically pain. Reduce him to his component atoms and he would not be able to scream in agony because he has nothing to scream with -- but, if he could, he would. The basic point is that this is not, on the whole, a desirable ability for someone to have.

 

Perhaps this "ability" can be represented simply as a special effect of death. After all, if in terms of game mechanics the character can't do anything, he or she is functionally dead. This is just another type of death. Maybe add in the physical limitation: "feels pain even when 'dead' ".

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: i Can't Die! No matter How Much I want To!

 

Perhaps this "ability" can be represented simply as a special effect of death. After all' date=' if in terms of game mechanics the character can't do anything, he or she is functionally dead. This is just another type of death. Maybe add in the physical limitation: "feels pain even when 'dead' ".[/quote']

 

The only upside is if that he is brought back, he doesn't have any loss of memory or skills. Of course, if he's brought back in a physically incomplete form (missing a hand, for example) he still has to deal with not having a hand until some other power restores a hand to him. But he can always be brought back. Even if his consciousness is scattered, a suitable power application can recover it (such as capturing his mind in a computer and turning him into an AI).

 

The Hammer version of Dracula was like that -- no matter how throughly you destroyed him, there was a means by which he could be revived -- and some deluded fool would be certain to find it....

[OddHat]

Re: i Can't Die! No matter How Much I want To!

 

The only upside is if that he is brought back, he doesn't have any loss of memory or skills. Of course, if he's brought back in a physically incomplete form (missing a hand, for example) he still has to deal with not having a hand until some other power restores a hand to him. But he can always be brought back. Even if his consciousness is scattered, a suitable power application can recover it (such as capturing his mind in a computer and turning him into an AI).

 

The Hammer version of Dracula was like that -- no matter how throughly you destroyed him, there was a means by which he could be revived -- and some deluded fool would be certain to find it....

 

That's Healing with Resurrection but not Can Heal Limbs.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: i Can't Die! No matter How Much I want To!

 

Characters pay points for things that benefit them.

 

This ability is not a benefit, therefore its not an ability that needs to be defined as a Power and paid for. If anything its a Disadvantage, but since the character is essentially unplayable, its really just a plot / story device.

[input.jack]

Re: i Can't Die! No matter How Much I want To!

 

Characters pay points for things that benefit them.

 

This ability is not a benefit, therefore its not an ability that needs to be defined as a Power and paid for. If anything its a Disadvantage, but since the character is essentially unplayable, its really just a plot / story device.

 

Bingo.

[Mister E]

Re: i Can't Die! No matter How Much I want To!

 

It reminds me of the head of Orpheus.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: i Can't Die! No matter How Much I want To!

 

Characters pay points for things that benefit them.

 

This ability is not a benefit, therefore its not an ability that needs to be defined as a Power and paid for. If anything its a Disadvantage, but since the character is essentially unplayable, its really just a plot / story device.

 

Yeah. That's what I was thinking; if I were going to actually attach a point value to it, I'd do it... probably as a Physical Limitation:

 

50 Physical Limitation: Cannot Ever Die, Regardless of Condition of Body

 

 

...and then a whole passel of Psych Lims to go along with it to represent how truly fubar'd this guy's mind would be...

[TaxiMan]

Re: i Can't Die! No matter How Much I want To!

 

Characters pay points for things that benefit them.

 

This ability is not a benefit, therefore its not an ability that needs to be defined as a Power and paid for. If anything its a Disadvantage, but since the character is essentially unplayable, its really just a plot / story device.

 

Not necessarily... I could see keeping this guy in my GM "hip pocket" so to speak, and handing him to a truly obnoxious player.

 

GM - "No, really! This guy is awesome - no matter what, he can't die! You can't lose!"

 

Obnoxious Player - "Cool! OK - I throw myself in front of the Disintegro-Ray!"

 

GM - "Wow! OK, you've been burned to a crisp - no arms, no legs, no head, just a torso."

 

OP - "But I'm not dead, right?"

 

GM - "Right! Your superpower is now obvious for all to see!"

 

OP - "That's what I'm talkin' about! OK, next I'm going to..."

 

GM - "Wait - you can't move, since you are an overcooked french fry. If you had a head you'd be thinking Oh God! The pain!!! but luckily, your head was blown off."

 

OP - "Uh, well how long until I heal?"

 

GM - "I doubt you'll ever heal from that. Jumping in front of that plasma cannon was idiotic."

 

OP - "What?!? This is stupid - forget this character, I'll make another."

 

GM - "Sorry, house rule. You can't have two characters in the game. Same applies for everyone else, no special treatment."

 

OP - "But Bill got a new character!"

 

GM - "Yeah, but CaptainCoolMan died. That's allowed. Your guy is still alive. Why don't you try to roleplay being a charcoal? If you get enough xp you could develop Regeneration..."