The Things That I've Learned Facing Bricks

[OzMike]

Re: The Things That I've Learned Facing Bricks

 

If you are faster/higher DEX - holding your action until after the brick has acted is incredibly useful in team situations.

 

A 2D6 Ranged Killing Attack and Find Weakness with RKA at 13- and +5 with the RKA (60 AP total) can be much nastier than a straight 12D6 EB (also 60 AP).

 

NNDs/AVLDs and patience are your friends.

[Loxly]

Re: The Things That I've Learned Facing Bricks

 

Don't Mind Control the Brick to "Take Out" the "hawt female heroin" standing next to him.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: The Things That I've Learned Facing Bricks

 

Don't Mind Control the Brick to "Take Out" the "hawt female heroin" standing next to him.

Of course not... Mind control is for use directly on the Hawt Female!

 

 

 

 

 

 

"You find fat guys irresistible..."

[Metaphysician]

Re: The Things That I've Learned Facing Bricks

 

The answer is and always has been:

 

Save the brick for last. Wipe out his teammates first and then dogpile on the brick.

 

With the adjunct:

 

Unless the brick can be quickly and readily taken down by some form of nonstandard attack. If he's a sitting duck for your mentalist, by all means, take him down first.

[Doc Samson]

Re: The Things That I've Learned Facing Bricks

 

I play alot of Bricks. if I were to use that knowledge to take one out, here is what I look for.

 

Attacks

- Grabs: Have a Grab defense or it will be a short fight (even shorter if the Brick has powers such as Extra Limbs, a Clinging Damage Shield, or extra Casual STR). Defenses include abilities such as Teleportation, Desolidification, and a high Contortionist roll. At the GMs option, Growth, Shrinking, and Stretching may also be used to escape a hold.

- Move Throughs: Avoid these at all costs. When you see one coming, abort to any defense maneuever or power you can. If you can take a full Brick Move Through without being Stunned, then you are a Brick.

- Haymaker: Easy enough to avoid, and avoid them you must, unless you are Stunned. Abort to get out of the way if you have to.

 

Defenses

If possible, find out what Defensive Powers you are up against. With GM approval, Analyze, KS: Bricks, Detect Defenses, or even Telepathy can be used to determine this. Though Bricks spend more on defense than any other AT, they are bound to have an Achilles Heel. Find Weakness, Adjustment Powers, Mental Powers, ect. can take a Brick without the proper defense down fast. Knowing if a Brick has a Vulnerability or Susceptibity that you can exploit is another way to punch through a Brick's normally formidible defenses.

 

Movement Powers

Try to find out what mode of transport the Brick uses. Don't assume you can just Fly away! Some Bricks Fly too. Move Through specialists can be as fast as a speedster, during their phases. Be aware that Leaping, a very common Brick movement power because it is based on STR, is half the cost of other popular movement powers such as Flight and Running. Running away doesn't work when your full move is equal to the Brick's half-move. Be especially wary of the Tunneling Brick, as a Brick that can attack an opponent while at a DCV penalty is a scary thing (Extra Limb single target Grab Sweep anyone?).

 

Senses

This is often a weakness in many Brick builds as you cant's squash what you can't hit. Flash, Darkness, and Invisibility against the Brick's targeting senses will obviously mitigate alot of damage. A well built Brick may have an alternate targeting sense. Knowing what it is could mean the difference between victory and immense pain. As it can become very expensive to cover all your sense groups, AVLD vs. Flash Defense can be a good tool to exploit this common weak spot (Sorry Bashmaster, I don't know why you didn't take any FD vs. Smell, heck you don't even have a nose!).

 

Miscellaneous

It is of the utmost importance to know before you pick a fight with a Brick (see above for suggestions on how to determine this) if the Brick in question has any unusal special abilities, such as a devestating heat vision attack or an adrenal disorder. All Bricks use STR (mostly)! A Brick without alot of Power Defense can be dramatically reduced in power with a small amout of STR loss (math available upon request). Drain is good for this and if you can afford the END, Suppress is even better. Finally, if you get attacked by a Brick while unprepared, lay down and play dead. Nevermind, that's bears.

[Metaphysician]

Re: The Things That I've Learned Facing Bricks

 

. . . AVLD vs Smell/Taste Group Flash Defense? Do I even wanna know the special effect?

[Doc Samson]

Re: The Things That I've Learned Facing Bricks

 

. . . AVLD vs Smell/Taste Group Flash Defense? Do I even wanna know the special effect?

 

Nope, I don't think you do. "Pull Bulk's Finger! Bulk is smelliest one their is!"

[bwdemon]

Re: The Things That I've Learned Facing Bricks

 

Thinking a bit more on this, are bricks really that much of a problem in the era of AP limits? 12d6 is 12d6 whether it comes at the end of a set of knuckles or from a blast of radiation. Or do a lot of games use more appropriate limits? Or are character points the only limits used in many cases?

 

I've been interested in coming up with a solid "Rule of X" formula for a while. Maybe Attack AP = 2xOCV + 10xSPD + Power AP? Set the limit at 130 AAP for an average of: 10 OCV, 5 SPD, and 12d6. A brick might go with a 10/4/14d6 split instead. A martial artist might go with 12/6/9d6. Hmm...

 

Anyway, it just doesn't seem like this should be as big of an issue if AP limits are used.

[Doc Samson]

Re: The Things That I've Learned Facing Bricks

 

Thinking a bit more on this, are bricks really that much of a problem in the era of AP limits? 12d6 is 12d6 whether it comes at the end of a set of knuckles or from a blast of radiation. Or do a lot of games use more appropriate limits? Or are character points the only limits used in many cases?

 

I've been interested in coming up with a solid "Rule of X" formula for a while. Maybe Attack AP = 2xOCV + 10xSPD + Power AP? Set the limit at 130 AAP for an average of: 10 OCV, 5 SPD, and 12d6. A brick might go with a 10/4/14d6 split instead. A martial artist might go with 12/6/9d6. Hmm...

 

Anyway, it just doesn't seem like this should be as big of an issue if AP limits are used.

 

You make a good point. I don't think Bricks are any sort of problem, especially when compared to the effectiveness of other ATs such as the Mentalist (this is by no means a Mentalist bash, just an acknowledgment that Mental Powers are very effective for their relative cost). They do however tend to have an AP max STR (strength is also prertty effective for the cost, plus you get 10 pts. free) and AP max Defenses. In the comics, this combination ususally makes them the fist into a battle and the last one out. This can be a little intimidating to less combat focused ATs (such as the Gadgeteer who tends to spend as many points skills as attack powers). Even from a Balance standpoint, I don't see this as a problem but I can understand why less combat oriented ATs may want to be aware of effective tactics to use against the more combat oriented ATs (including Martial Artists who usually end up exceeding damage or CV caps due to the way Martial Skills are buit.)

[jkwleisemann]

Re: The Things That I've Learned Facing Bricks

 

Pain-*you*-suffer-wise? They're not.

 

Pain-*they*-suffer-wise, they are.

 

Through a typical 30 DEF brick at another archetype with similar AP limits and only 20 DEF. Those extra 10 Stun quickly makes a massive difference... especially since the guy who *isn't* taking it is the one who's probably got an extra 20-30 points of it above the other one.

 

Put simply: You're not going to do Body to a brick. You can do stun, but he takes less of it and *can* take more of it than anybody else.

 

Even if you do just as much damage as he does, you're in deep, deep trouble in a one-on-one fight.

 

That said, another Thing I've Learned:

 

Get some extra levels with Dive For Cover. Martial Dodge is +5 DCV, but when you botch your roll to dive out of the hex the brick's swinging a car at, it doesn't really matter.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Things That I've Learned Facing Bricks

 

AP limits can be a problem themselves when applied without regard to the special nature of Bricks.

 

Assuming a typical 60 AP limit the typical 60 STR Brick can always make a 16d6 attack without resorting to a Haymaker.

 

How?

 

Move Through with 12" of Leaping. Yeah, it's a -2 OCV maneuver but it doesn't take an extra Phase like Haymaker either.

[Doc Samson]

Re: The Things That I've Learned Facing Bricks

 

AP limits can be a problem themselves when applied without regard to the special nature of Bricks.

 

Assuming a typical 60 AP limit the typical 60 STR Brick can always make a 16d6 attack without resorting to a Haymaker.

 

How?

 

Move Through with 12" of Leaping. Yeah, it's a -2 OCV maneuver but it doesn't take an extra Phase like Haymaker either.

 

I don't think this is Brick specific. Movement damage can also be used by those who use HKAs and HAs (such as Martial Artists and melee Weapon Masters) and is most frequently used by the Speedster AT. By the way, I always liked your name (Hyperman).

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Things That I've Learned Facing Bricks

 

I don't think this is Brick specific. Movement damage can also be used by those who use HKAs and HAs (such as Martial Artists and melee Weapon Masters) and is most frequently used by the Speedster AT. By the way' date=' I always liked your name (Hyperman).[/quote']

 

Martial Artists might have maneuver and Martial DC's based bonus damage of 4-6 dice. Replacing that with movement based damage is a wash unless you're speaking of a martial movement maneuever in which case they probably have to get it under the campaign DC limit as well. I believe that HKA weapons get a reduced amount of movement based damage.

 

Thanks.

[Zed-F]

Re: The Things That I've Learned Facing Bricks

 

Thinking a bit more on this, are bricks really that much of a problem in the era of AP limits? 12d6 is 12d6 whether it comes at the end of a set of knuckles or from a blast of radiation. Or do a lot of games use more appropriate limits? Or are character points the only limits used in many cases?

 

I've been interested in coming up with a solid "Rule of X" formula for a while. Maybe Attack AP = 2xOCV + 10xSPD + Power AP? Set the limit at 130 AAP for an average of: 10 OCV, 5 SPD, and 12d6. A brick might go with a 10/4/14d6 split instead. A martial artist might go with 12/6/9d6. Hmm...

 

Anyway, it just doesn't seem like this should be as big of an issue if AP limits are used.

 

It's not really the damage that makes a brick's 60 STR impressive. Nor is it always the PD/ED -- oftentimes, bricks don't really have that much more PD/ED than other archetypes. On the other hand, they are far more likely to have Damage Reduction to back up their PD and ED, and they are vastly more likely to have higher REC and STUN than other archetypes that don't rely on STR. If they have similar CV and DCs to the other characters, but last much longer in a fight, it can lead to a perception of imbalance.

[Niles]

Re: The Things That I've Learned Facing Bricks

 

I think people are overstating the PD/ED advantage that Bricks have over other archetypes, the real defensive edge bricks tend to have over other archetypes is in STUN and REC. Flipping through CK&C it seem like the average 300-500 point non-Brick has 7-12 REC and 30-40 STUN while the equivalent Brick has 15-20 REC and 65-75 STUN. Free REC and STUN are one of the big perks of high STR as your main attack form.

 

If you build an attack that can put 20 STUN on anyone who lacks the appropriate exotic defense, it will impress a lot less against bricks than other characters, especially if it also bypasses DCV(which Bricks rarely count on as their primary defense).

 

On another point, Bricks and Martial artist are also the Character types least able mitigate a mobility disadvantage in my observation.

[OddHat]

Re: The Things That I've Learned Facing Bricks

 

STR is a combination offensive, defensive, and movement power; the 50 points the Brick spends on STR in a 12DC Capped game gets him extra Stun, REC, PD, Leaping and Casual STR. It's a great deal. Sure, the Energy Blaster is probably using a Power Framework and the Martial Artists have the option of Martial MPAs if the GM allows them, but then a Brick with a power framework or some martial arts is well within the rules and the source material.

 

If you are worried about "balance", whatever that means in your campaign, there is a potential problem.

[Catacomb]

Re: The Things That I've Learned Facing Bricks

 

TK is a brick's worst enemy. Almost to the point of being unfair.

 

 

Amen. Now imagine a brick with TK.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Things That I've Learned Facing Bricks

 

Amen. Now imagine a brick with TK.

 

You mean like General Zod in Superman II?

[OzMike]

Re: The Things That I've Learned Facing Bricks

 

Another stat that Bricks tend to buy heaps of is CON, which like STR, gives you heaps of bonuses in figured stats and adds defensively because it makes you hard to STUN.

[Weldun]

Re: The Things That I've Learned Facing Bricks

 

As the old article goes, "CON builds character."

[OzMike]

Re: The Things That I've Learned Facing Bricks

 

As the old article goes' date=' "CON builds character."[/quote']

 

And the toughest brick I ever built had CON equal to his STR (60 and 60). Sure it cost 150 pts back in the day when you had a total of 250pts, but the dude would not fall down easily and never got stunned.

 

(Sorry - I lie. Stunned once. Move-by on the bad guy in a plane - both went through the side of the plane and fell. Brick couldn't fly - leaping only. Hit the ground eventually for 30D6. That stunned him.)

 

I think he also had 20 dex and 4 SPD... only had about 15 pts of skills though (or was it 9?)

 

Now days that is incredibly affordable, and just as useful.

[JmOz]

Re: The Things That I've Learned Facing Bricks

 

Drain LoW is a great power...

[TheRavenIs]

Re: The Things That I've Learned Facing Bricks

 

I am playing a brick right now that has a DEX 30, STR 75 and CON 30. If you just keep out of he's reach you can nit-pick him down......until he get's he's recovery. REC 27.......

[Metaphysician]

Re: The Things That I've Learned Facing Bricks

 

OTOH, fast bricks are their own matter. For them, best option is "not be in reach".

[incrdbil]

Re: The Things That I've Learned Facing Bricks

 

I am playing a brick right now that has a DEX 30' date=' STR 75 and CON 30. If you just keep out of he's reach you can nit-pick him down......until he get's he's recovery. REC 27.......[/quote']

 

The last 10 of that recoverys only for END, don't get to happy about it.

 

Oddly enough, your character is the only one to lose major BODY so far.