Newbie to the HERO system

[L. Marcus]

Re: Newbie to the HERO system

 

Oooohhh . . . There are so many acronyms . . .

 

OCV and DCV: Offensive resp. Defensive Combat Value -- attacking and defending.

NCM: Normal Characteristic Maxima or Non-Combat Movement, depending on context.

HA: Hand Attack -- non-lethal normal melee attack. Maybe fists and such

HKA: Hand Attack - Killing -- lethal. Knifes are an example.

EB: Energy Blast -- ranged non-lethal attack.

RKA: Kanged Attack - Killing -- ranged lethal attack.

. . .

 

Those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head. There are more.

[Vondy]

Re: Newbie to the HERO system

 

If you post the acronyms you aren't familiar with we'll jump on it for you.

[GAZZA]

Re: Newbie to the HERO system

 

I realise that if you've never run Hero before you might think it's a bit soon to start with house rules, but I have a few that are designed with new players in mind - things like switching it so you always want to roll high, a means to simplify combat (OCV vs DCV) calculations, and so on. If you're interested, drop me a PM (I completely understand if you'd rather run things as written for a while).

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Newbie to the HERO system

 

Yes' date=' but in the early comics, the registration was so bad they were forced to use large, simple areas of a single color, and couldn't blend colors well. You're technically correct, but the term "four color" still associated with the early comics.[/quote']

I don't think it was ever really an issue of registration, it was more the quality of the halftoning process. The Hulk (and many others) have been green for a long time, by printing yellow over cyan. Nowadays, it's a lot easier to get smoother fountain fills and halftones, and all-around higher quality color consistancy and fidelity. And there are improved human techniques as well, as comic book artists have learned to get the most out of the medium. Paper quality also plays a role.

 

And yes, I know what "four-color" means in regard to comic books. I wasn't the one who asked that question.

[Gemphyre]

Re: Newbie to the HERO system

 

Thanks again for everyone's suggestions. I'm also glad to see that I'm not the only Heroes fan around here. lol I'm obsessed with that show.

 

Also, while reading through the introduction to the game mechanics Marcus provided me, I've come across a lot of acronyms I'm not familiar with (probably due to lack of familiarity with the system itself). Can someone please give me a rundown of what some of the more common acronyms used in the game are so I can at least somewhat comprehend what's being said in the introduction, please? Thank you.

 

The good news is that Hero Games does publish lists of acronyms.

 

The bad news is that you have to buy their products to see it, such as the Glossary starting on page 6 of the Fifth Ed. Rev. rulebook.

 

Seriously, as another said here, get together a list if acronyms and abbreviations that you are mystified by, post them here, and you will soon have what they mean. Most people here have been playing for quite a while, and are happy to help people that are lost in the system. As with anywhere else, the acronyms as a shorthand way to say a long word or phrase quickly. It saves time talking, and a lot of time and space when writing out character info.

 

Gemphyre

[RusanCrosha]

Re: Newbie to the HERO system

 

Okay, I went through the document again and found all the acronyms that were giving me trouble. It did say what each one was, but I'm not sure I'm fully comprehending what they mean. STR, CON, DEX, and SPD, are all pretty self-explanatory. But the others are: BODY, STUN, CV, OCV, DCV, ECV, EGO.

[Starwolf]

Re: Newbie to the HERO system

 

Okay' date=' I went through the document again and found all the acronyms that were giving me trouble. It did say what each one was, but I'm not sure I'm fully comprehending what they mean. STR, CON, DEX, and SPD, are all pretty self-explanatory. But the others are: BODY, STUN, CV, OCV, DCV, ECV, EGO.[/quote']

 

These are some of your characters main Characteristics. in order they are

 

STR = your physical strength (how much can you lift, how hard can you hit, also affects PD, ED, END, and STUN)

CON = your Constitution (how much damage can you sustain from a single blow before being stunned, also affects PD, ED, END, and STUN)

DEX = your physical dexterity (how fast and agile are you, it affects your SPD, OCV, and DCV

SPD = your physical speed (how many times do you get to move in a game turn)

BODY = how much damage can you sustain before dieing

STUN = how much damage can you sustain before becoming unconscious

CV = Combat value, there are 3 types OCV, DCV, and ECV

OCV = Offfensive Combat Value (how good is your phycisal aim when attacking others)

DCV = Defensive Combat Value (how good are you at avoiding others physical attacks)

ECV = EGO Combat Value (a measure of your mental toughness, your ability to withstand/avoid mental attacks or attack others if your have mental offensive powers

EGO = your primary mental toughness (how wise are you, how much mental damage can you withstand, your resistance to things like interrogation, also affects ECV)

 

I hope this helps

[ghost-angel]

Re: Newbie to the HERO system

 

The single biggest thing to keep in mind when using Hero is the idea of "Reasoning From Effect" - which is to say, decide what you want to happen First, then pick a Power to reflect it.

 

Here's a FAQ linky that explains it in more detail.

 

Also, pay attention to Capitolized Words vs noncapitolized words.

 

Speed would refer to the Characteristic.

speed would refer to velocity.

[RusanCrosha]

Re: Newbie to the HERO system

 

Thanks agian everyone for the help. That cleared a lot of things up.

 

On another note, is anyone familiar with the game Mutants & Masterminds? A friend was telling me about that, and it's kind of intrigued me, since it's based on the d20 rules system that I am already familiar with. Just wondeirng if anybody had a preference of one over the other.

[GAZZA]

Re: Newbie to the HERO system

 

At the risk of a lynching... Mutants and Masterminds isn't at all a bad game, but IMHO it's not as well constructed for long term (ie campaign) play as HERO is.

 

The reasons for this are numerous:

• Because it's based on levels, there's a sort of implicit assumption on the minds of most D&D players that things like saving throws and attack rolls should scale with level. That means you end up devoting a large number of your points per level to +1 to BAB and all four saving throws - if you don't, you progressively fall way behind someone who does. Granted that HERO isn't necessarily immune to this, but I've never seen this tendency manifested (mostly because in HERO the expectation is that you start off pretty good and get a bit more flexible and powerful, rather than D&D where you start off weak and get much more powerful). If you can bash the D&D out of your M&M players, you'll avoid this... but the main attraction of M&M is its familiarity to D&D players, so I'm not sure that's worthwhile.
  
• It inherits a lot of D&D issues that don't work so well in M&M. For example, Growth is virtually useless (you get massive penalties to hit and to your defence) while Shrinking is awesome (for the opposite reasons), because in D&D this is balanced by small creatures generally having low HD and big ones having lots. You will often find lots of PCs have a 20 STR because it adds to your chance to hit (Super Strength doesn't); again, this is a D&Dism.
  
• The ideas for Power Stunts and related powers aren't nearly as well put together as HERO power frameworks, although they are a lot simpler.

My experiences were with the 1st edition; I've no idea what changed in 2nd edition (but I doubt any of the above did, since they are fairly well ingrained).

 

It's not an awful system by any means - the above problems don't cripple it (and every game has its issues - even HERO has trouble with some concepts). Whether or not you prefer using it to HERO is largely a matter of personal taste; if you like the d20 system it's a no-brainer (I personally strongly dislike the d20 system in general, but that hasn't stopped me playing it). Even if you do, though, it's still worth looking into a lot of the Hero supplements, as the rulesy stuff tends to be easily converted.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Newbie to the HERO system

 

There are in fact several regular posters here who prefer Mutants and Masterminds over Champions for their superhero gaming, although they may use HERO for other genres. Common opinion is that it's a good game for running "four-color" supers (i.e. high-powered cinematic action with fairly clear-cut morality), but opinions are more divided as to how well it handles "gritty" supers. Certainly the core books have excellent production values, and as you point out it has the familiarity of the d20 system going for it. OTOH M&M is a very distinctive brand of d20, with significant mechanical differences from D&D (which most people I've heard from consider improvements).

 

IMO using Champs or M&M would be a matter of personal preference, as they're both fine games but with their own distinct styles and flavors. However, it's worth pointing out that people are only starting to make efforts to expand the M&M version of d20 to other genres than supers. HERO has it all over them in that arena.

[CourtFool]

Madness and Mayhem

 

My opinion: M&M is simpler on the front end. Hero is simpler on the back end.

[GreyGuardian]

Re: Newbie to the HERO system

 

Unlike d20 Hero System is internally consistent with the way things work. Even if you have widely different abilities (a gun or the ability to shoot laser bolts out of your eyes) the game mechanic underlying them will be similar.

 

All of the rules are contained in Hero System 5th edition. (Or you can limit the rule set to Sidekick which is a lot shorter than the full ruleset). The other books are very handy as references and as sources of ideas but they are not required. You don't need a copy of the Until super powers data base to build cool electrical powers. However, if you do have the USPD you can see an example of how to build those powers and probably some ideas for powers you hadn't thought of. Whereas in d20 if you want a prestige class or a feat, you have to buy the book it appears in.

 

Dark Champions is the genra book that's equivalent to d20 modern. It has guns, lots of guns, and other info for adventuring in the world today. Champions covers the classic superhero genra which may also be useful but probably won't be as much use as Dark Champions. Hudson city would be the setting book that is intended to work with a Dark Champions style game, a gritty dark city.

 

Heroes characters tend to be very simple compared to normal superheroes in the Hero System. They tend to have one power. That makes them very easy to write up. Even someone like Ted that can produce a variety of effects wouldn't be hard to create. Peter and Sylar - They would be much more expensive to build than any of the others (it would be like comparing a level 5 character in d20 to a lvl 20) and would be more complicated (but not remarkably so).

 

Good Luck!

[RusanCrosha]

Re: Newbie to the HERO system

 

My friend sent me a .pdf file of the Mutants & Masterminds 2nd Edition core book, and I've been spending most of my time the last couple of days reading through it. I have to say that I am impressed with it. I agree that it is more fitting for a Four Color superhero game, but I don't mind that much. I'm as big of a fan of that style as I am of how Heroes takes the superhero genre. I am a fan of the d20 system, been using it for several years now, and so I'll probably invest in this book before looking into the HERO system.

 

Please don't lynch me! *covers face in case people start throwing tomatos or other rotton produce*

[L. Marcus]

Re: Newbie to the HERO system

 

Boo! Hiss!

 

 

Well, as they say, to each his own.

[GAZZA]

Re: Newbie to the HERO system

 

As an aside - is anyone familiar with somewhere I can review some of the differences between 1st and 2nd edition of M&M, or ideally could run through some of the big ones? My buddies and I played it for a few weeks but found it somewhat unsatisfying because of the "D&Disms" I alluded to above - I'm curious as to whether or not it's worth a second look.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: Newbie to the HERO system

 

Killershrike's General Hero System Resources - Inclueds explanations of Hero System Game Mechanics.

http://www.killershrike.com/GeneralHERO/HEROSystem.htm

 

Heroes Wiki

http://boards.nbc.com/nbc/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

 

Heroe for HERO?

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53147&highlight=Hiro+Nakamura

 

 

Cheers

 

 

QM

[CourtFool]

Lost another one to The System Which Shall Not Be Named

 

I am a fan of the d20 system' date=' been using it for several years now, and so I'll probably invest in this book before looking into the HERO system.[/quote']

 

[DERAIL]This is one of my beefs with The System Which Shall Not Be Named. Despite my opinion of its inferiority, people continue to play it simply because they are familiar with it. I guess if it is not broken, don't fix it. This just frustrates me because I find it so difficult to find Hero players, yet everywhere I turn, I am stepping on another player of The System Which Shall Not Be Named.[/DERAIL]

 

Nothing against you, RusanCrosha. Just a touchy subject for me.

[GAZZA]

Re: Lost another one to The System Which Shall Not Be Named

 

[DERAIL]This is one of my beefs with The System Which Shall Not Be Named. Despite my opinion of its inferiority' date=' people continue to play it simply because they are familiar with it. I guess if it is not broken, don't fix it. This just frustrates me because I find it so difficult to find Hero players, yet everywhere I turn, I am stepping on another player of The System Which Shall Not Be Named.[/DERAIL']

 

Nothing against you, RusanCrosha. Just a touchy subject for me.

A fair point, but on the other hand understandable. There are several players who love HERO so much that they convert other games to the HERO system rather than play them - granted, I think HERO is better than d20, but there's always going to be a level of subjectivity to that (I've no doubt someone out there is as familiar as I am with both HERO and d20 and honestly believes the latter to be superior - and who can deny them the right to have that opinion?)

 

It's just human nature - beyond a certain point, you're famous because you're famous, everyone uses Windows because everyone uses Windows, and so on.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Lost another one to The System Which Shall Not Be Named

 

A fair point' date=' but on the other hand understandable. There are several players who love HERO so much that they convert other games to the HERO system rather than play them - granted, [b']I[/b] think HERO is better than d20, but there's always going to be a level of subjectivity to that (I've no doubt someone out there is as familiar as I am with both HERO and d20 and honestly believes the latter to be superior - and who can deny them the right to have that opinion?)

 

It's just human nature - beyond a certain point, you're famous because you're famous, everyone uses Windows because everyone uses Windows, and so on.

 

I'm sure this has been discussed elsewhere but I wish HERO/DOJ could somehow licensce their game mechanics to other gameworld designers. Think of it as the reverse of getting the DCU or Marvel Licensce. THAT would bring in new HERO players.

[CourtFool]

Llama = The Hypocrite

 

I've no doubt someone out there is as familiar as I am with both HERO and d20 and honestly believes the latter to be superior - and who can deny them the right to have that opinion?

 

Agreed. While the end result is much the same, one fewer Hero player, I can at least respect and agree to disagree with someone on that point. It is the refusing to 'think outside of the box' that really gets me.

 

In all fairness, it is human nature to want to stay within one's comfort zone and I am just as guilty as anyone of this. So label me hypocrite and move on.

[Diamond Spear]

Re: Newbie to the HERO system

 

Don’t worry. Once he runs into the limitations inherent in M&M he’ll come around.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Newbie to the HERO system

 

As an aside - is anyone familiar with somewhere I can review some of the differences between 1st and 2nd edition of M&M' date=' or ideally could run through some of the big ones? My buddies and I played it for a few weeks but found it somewhat unsatisfying because of the "D&Disms" I alluded to above - I'm curious as to whether or not it's worth a second look.[/quote']

 

RPG.Net has some reviews of both editions - what level of detail those reviews go into I have no idea. If nothing else I'd find MitchellS on these boards and ask him, I believe he's played both editions and is familiar with the ins and outs of them.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Newbie to the HERO system

 

RPG.Net has some reviews of both editions - what level of detail those reviews go into I have no idea.

 

http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/12/12943.phtml

 

http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/12/12090.phtml

 

I recommend the first of those reviews by Steve Watson for a very quick overview of the changes, and then James Gillen's review for a more in-depth analysis.

[GAZZA]

Re: Newbie to the HERO system

 

Cheers guys!