Do you think these are legitimate Power Builds

[Balabanto]

Re: Do you think these are legitimate Power Builds

 

The reason you use "Focus of Opportunity" is that the attack is essentially an indirect energy blast with a weird effect. Everyone sees the image of a piano slam into him. (This is done by having the power be visible to the sight group) The image of the piano hits him and deals damage.

 

There is still a piano there. Effectively, the target is being hit by an energy image of the piano.

 

If Deathgrip destroys the Piano with his deadly grip, Mr. Z can't create an image of the piano anymore. He could create an image of piano chunks that did something similar, but then it would be up to Rod how much damage the image of the piano chunks did.

[JmOz]

Re: Do you think these are legitimate Power Builds

 

Legit: Definatly

 

Best way: Questionable

 

Personal Opinion: Use mental illuison

[ghost-angel]

Re: Do you think these are legitimate Power Builds

 

The reason you use "Focus of Opportunity" is that the attack is essentially an indirect energy blast with a weird effect. Everyone sees the image of a piano slam into him. (This is done by having the power be visible to the sight group) The image of the piano hits him and deals damage.

 

There is still a piano there. Effectively, the target is being hit by an energy image of the piano.

 

If Deathgrip destroys the Piano with his deadly grip, Mr. Z can't create an image of the piano anymore. He could create an image of piano chunks that did something similar, but then it would be up to Rod how much damage the image of the piano chunks did.

 

OH! I get you - making an image of an already existant object.

 

nice.

[Balabanto]

Re: Do you think these are legitimate Power Builds

 

Thank you, sir.

[Gideon]

Re: Do you think these are legitimate Power Builds

 

The reason you use "Focus of Opportunity" is that the attack is essentially an indirect energy blast with a weird effect. Everyone sees the image of a piano slam into him. (This is done by having the power be visible to the sight group) The image of the piano hits him and deals damage.

 

There is still a piano there. Effectively, the target is being hit by an energy image of the piano.

 

If Deathgrip destroys the Piano with his deadly grip, Mr. Z can't create an image of the piano anymore. He could create an image of piano chunks that did something similar, but then it would be up to Rod how much damage the image of the piano chunks did.

 

The problem with this (If I understand the character correctly) is that it changes what Mr. Z is able to do.

 

The SFX of the power is: "I make it look like an object appears out of thin air and it lands on someone. If the person who was hit believes that the object is real he takes damage."

 

Having OIF on the power means that he can't make anything appear, only make it look like something already there moved, and thats not the character's power. If he wanted to he could "summon" an Elephant to land on someone while on the moon.

 

Now granted, while I believe I understand what the power is meant to do, that doesn't mean I like the build.

 

IMO, "Must have a Brain" is not appropriate, and neither is Ego Defense adds to PD/ED. I believe the power should be an NND with the defense being: blind or otherwise unable to percieve the power.

 

My rational is that if Mr. Z shoots a gout of flame at Generic-blind-martial-artis-who-sees-soully-through-spacial-awareness-man and the power takes up no space, makes no sound, and generates no actual heat then Generic-blind-martial-artis-who-sees-soully-through-spacial-awareness-man has no reason to believe anything happened. And since the OP already said that part of the SFX of the power is needing to believe that you can be hurt by the power, he should be immune.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Do you think these are legitimate Power Builds

 

The problem with this (If I understand the character correctly) is that it changes what Mr. Z is able to do.

 

The SFX of the power is: "I make it look like an object appears out of thin air and it lands on someone. If the person who was hit believes that the object is real he takes damage."

 

Having OIF on the power means that he can't make anything appear, only make it look like something already there moved, and thats not the character's power. If he wanted to he could "summon" an Elephant to land on someone while on the moon.

 

Balabanto's construct did more damage. This could be added as a slot in addition to the current slots, providing the option of using the existing environment, rather than creating a new environment. Use of the existing environment requires nothing be created, and therefore leaves greater power for the damage to be inflicted (much like my initial comment, except I somehow had it in my head this was a luck-based power rather than an Images based power).

[Balabanto]

Re: Do you think these are legitimate Power Builds

 

Yeah. This is basically a "Conservation of Matter and Energy" power. If you already have an object there, more of the energy (As Hugh suggested), can easily be placed into "Hurt Bob."

 

Plus, the thing about Mr. Z is that we're not entirely sure how his powers work sometimes. It's part of the fun of the character. There's meant to be a certain level of "What the...?"

[OzMike]

Re: Do you think these are legitimate Power Builds

 

Perhaps rather than "Mental DEF adds to PD/ED"' date=' maybe there should be a limitation that a target makes a PER Roll at -5 (the same modifier as his Images power), then target takes no damage.[/quote']

 

Given his images power, that sounds like a better (and less messy) option. A question though - once a person realises the nature of the objects (that they are not real) do the objects cease to hurt them at all? Or do they get a bonus to their PER roll (say +3 making a total of -2 instead of -5)?

[OddHat]

Re: Do you think these are legitimate Power Builds

 

I am currently working on updating the character sheets for SuperSquad America and I have been looking at the Mysterious Mr. Z's ability to trick people into believing that they are being hit by an attack of some sort. Currently, this is represented by 2 slots in his multipower:

 

So Real It Hurts: Energy Blast 9 1/2d6, Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4), Personal Immunity (+1/4), Variable Special Effects (Any SFX; +1/2); Target must have a brain to fool (-1/4), Target's Mental DEF adds to PD/ED (-1/4)

 

Where Did That Piano Come From?: Energy Blast 7d6, Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4), Personal Immunity (+1/4), Variable Special Effects (Any SFX; +1/2), Indirect (Any origin, any direction; +3/4); Target must have a brain to fool (-1/4), Target's Mental DEF adds to PD/ED (-1/4)

 

My question is this. Do you think these are legitmate builds for this ability?

 

Without having read the rest of the thread:

 

Yes, these are legitimate builds.

 

They're not the way I'd build the power, but then I'm not the boss of all HERO System Design. That would be Steve Long.

 

I'd probably use Mental Illusions, Only to create damaging illusions (-1/4), must achieve at least EGO+20 (-1/2). However, your approach takes EGO out of the equation, and is probably a bit faster to work out in actual play.

[OddHat]

Re: Do you think these are legitimate Power Builds

 

Having read more of the thread, my opinion is pretty much the same.

 

An EB with VSE and a few limits to reflect that it's really an illusion is fine and easy to calculate. One such limit might be Requires a Resisted Skill Roll, Illusion Skill vs PER Roll.

 

However, I'd still go the Mental Illusions route.

[TaxiMan]

Re: Do you think these are legitimate Power Builds

 

My first thought was that the EB build was inaccurate because it left evidence. E.g. if the SFX is a handgun, there should be a bullet hole and bullet left behind. If it's a piano, ivory keys and wire litter the scene. If it's mental, none of that remains. Just an unblemished corpse (or maybe some petechial hemmoraging if the GM thinks the victim pops blood vessels or something).

[ghost-angel]

Re: Do you think these are legitimate Power Builds

 

My first thought was that the EB build was inaccurate because it left evidence. E.g. if the SFX is a handgun' date=' there should be a bullet hole and bullet left behind. If it's a piano, ivory keys and wire litter the scene. If it's mental, none of that remains. Just an unblemished corpse (or maybe some petechial hemmoraging if the GM thinks the victim pops blood vessels or something).[/quote']

 

I don't see why an EB needs to leave behind any evidence. Cosmic Energy Blast might leave no trace beyond that fact that the body was obviously hit with something. As would probably be the case here - the mind is so convinced that a piano was dropped on it that it causes it's own blood vessels to bruise at the impact point.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: Do you think these are legitimate Power Builds

 

I] So Real It Hurts: Energy Blast 9 1/2d6' date=' Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4), Personal Immunity (+1/4), Variable Special Effects (Any SFX; +1/2); Target must have a brain to fool (-1/4), Target's Mental DEF adds to PD/ED (-1/4)[/quote']

No, 1/2 d6 on Energy Blasts. Use BOECV (+1)

 

I] Where Did That Piano Come From?: Energy Blast 7d6' date=' Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4), Personal Immunity (+1/4), Variable Special Effects (Any SFX; +1/2), Indirect (Any origin, any direction; +3/4); Target must have a brain to fool (-1/4), Target's Mental DEF adds to PD/ED (-1/4)[/quote']

As above.. LOOK OUT!... so below. Ouch.

 

I] My question is this. Do you think these are legitimate builds for this ability?

I like the concept , but not the build.

 

 

Dive's for Cover

 

 

QM

[ghost-angel]

Re: Do you think these are legitimate Power Builds

 

No, 1/2 d6 on Energy Blasts. Use BOECV (+1)

 

 

As above.. LOOK OUT!... so below. Ouch.

 

 

I like the concept , but not the build.

 

 

Dive's for Cover

 

 

QM

 

It's commonly agreed upon that a 1/2D6 of Energy Blast costs 3pts (like buying 3pts of STR to get a 1/2D6 of STR Damage).

 

BOECV, while outwardly appropriate, would force this to be an ECV vs ECV attack and convert it to STUN Only. I've run into several issues in the past trying to create a "Mentally Generated Physical Force" and have decided that BOECV is not the solution. This power should be based on the targets physical ability to get out of the way of the perceived incoming object: DCV.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Do you think these are legitimate Power Builds

 

I don't see why an EB needs to leave behind any evidence. Cosmic Energy Blast might leave no trace beyond that fact that the body was obviously hit with something. As would probably be the case here - the mind is so convinced that a piano was dropped on it that it causes it's own blood vessels to bruise at the impact point.

 

I think the point was not so much the effects on the target character but also the effects on the surrounding environment. The proposed mechanics handle the stated sfx well for 1 target but begin to break down when considering the observations of others.

 

example:

 

Mr. Z appears to throw a nearby piano at someone. Damage is calculated as per rjcurrie's build. When does it become apparent that the piano is unharmed. And do other observers see the same thing as target of Mr. Z's attack.

 

I am not saying it's a bad build. It just raises a concern about the level of detail the campaign uses. I have no problem if the same type of handwaive is applied to other characters with equal fairness.

 

HM.

[Gideon]

Re: Do you think these are legitimate Power Builds

 

Something still makes me think that these attacks should be ineffective against people who can't percieve the attack (IE: blind, deaf, unconcious).

 

When Mr. Z drops a piano on you are you actually getting hit by a piano or do you simply think you are getting hit? Is the trauma physical or mental?

 

Do his images affect all 5 senses (IE if he shoots you with fire is there heat?), or are they simply visual? Or are the sounds and feelings associated with the images (wetness of water, boom of sound) only in your mind?

 

If the power is an image that hurts you because you think it is supposed to hurt you (falling piano) but you are incapable of knowing that the attack is there how can you be effected by it?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Do you think these are legitimate Power Builds

 

I think the point was not so much the effects on the target character but also the effects on the surrounding environment. The proposed mechanics handle the stated sfx well for 1 target but begin to break down when considering the observations of others.

 

example:

 

Mr. Z appears to throw a nearby piano at someone. Damage is calculated as per rjcurrie's build. When does it become apparent that the piano is unharmed. And do other observers see the same thing as target of Mr. Z's attack.

 

I am not saying it's a bad build. It just raises a concern about the level of detail the campaign uses. I have no problem if the same type of handwaive is applied to other characters with equal fairness.

 

HM.

 

Mostly I'm refering to the original power of seeming to make a piano appear of thin air and land on the character. If it appears out of nowhere there's no reason it can subsequently dissappear to nowhere after the character gets a severe headache.