Teleport as a defensive move

[Tech]

As GM, I run into occasional situations where the player who's player character has Teleport, decides that when an attack is going to obviously be made against them, to use their Teleportation to teleport out of the way of an attack before it hits. They also, once in a long while, line up enemy opponents so that when one enemy attacks them, say with an energy blast, they teleport out of the way and the energy blast will hit their other opponent.

 

For now, I've been using a house rule for it but I'm not totally satisfied with it.

 

Question time: How would you handle these situations as GM? Any suggestions?

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Teleport as a defensive move

 

Merely getting out of the way is effectively a Dive For Cover; use the same rules for it. You can abort to this.

 

For teleporting out of the way, I think there are rules somewhere for a "sucker punch". For that I'd rule that you need a delayed phase (or half phase if you're using combat teleport) rather than aborting.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Teleport as a defensive move

 

I would allow a character to Abort to Teleport to get out of the way of an attack, under the same conditions as other Aborting to a defensive move. IMO this is an iteration of Diving For Cover, and should result in the same penalties to the character.

 

The second case you describe sounds similar to "Sucker Attacks," as described in the Champions genre book and the Combat Handbook. In that case I'd use the mechanics for that optional maneuver (including requiring that the character have a Held Action to execute it), but substitute Dive For Cover for the Dodge in a normal Sucker Attack.

[Gary]

Re: Teleport as a defensive move

 

You can have him purchase the Flying Dodge maneuver for 5 pts. The maneuver might be somewhat unbalancing, but it does what the player wants.

[Maccabe]

Re: Teleport as a defensive move

 

Some time ago I gave Cheshire Cat a very similar ability, I called it Micro-teleporting. I used Force Field, but now I might consider Combat Luck or even DESOLIDIFICATION.

That way the attack hits the lined up opponent as you want, or at least gets you out of harms way. Have fun with it !!!

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Teleport as a defensive move

 

As GM' date=' I run into occasional situations where the player who's player character has Teleport, decides that when an attack is going to obviously be made against them, to use their Teleportation to teleport out of the way of an attack before it hits.[/quote']

 

Dive for Cover, as others have stated.

 

hey also' date=' once in a long while, line up enemy opponents so that when one enemy attacks them, say with an energy blast, they teleport out of the way and the energy blast will hit their other opponent.[/quote']

 

Here I see a lot of options. The Sucker Punch has been mentioned. As an alternative, if you don't want to allow all characters (PC and NPC alike) to use the Sucker Punch, you could rule that the other character is targeted the same as any target in the line of fire of a missed attack (I'd use 0 OCV on the basis that the opponent wasn't firing at that target), and require any modification of this be purchased as a character ability (5 point skill levels would seem reasonable to enhance the OCV of the power to strike another target).

[jtelson]

Re: Teleport as a defensive move

 

Someone shoots at the character, it misses them but hits another target. Does Missile Reflection have an option for that?

[Bloodstone]

Re: Teleport as a defensive move

 

yes, would be Missile Deflection with the Reflect At Any Target Adders, though with that the SFX would be you teleport away to dodge the shot and then teleport right back... well unless you do something like make a Trigger Teleport that would let you move after the fact.

[Gideon]

Re: Teleport as a defensive move

 

yes' date=' would be Missile Deflection with the Reflect At Any Target Adders, though with that the SFX would be you teleport away to dodge the shot and then teleport right back... well unless you do something like make a Trigger Teleport that would let you move after the fact.[/quote']

 

unless the character wants to move from the hex he is in, I would say that he only needs to buy the Missle Reflection, and the SFX can be: "I teleport 4 centemeters to the left".

 

Remember a Hex is 2 meters across. Thats 6 1/2 feet. I know I don't take up that much space, and I doubt the character in question does either. So there should be no reason why the character can't have his SFX be I teleport from point A in this hex to point b in the same hex.

 

If (as I said above) he wants to actually move out of the hex he occupies though, then Bloodstone is absolutely right and he would need a triggered teleport to activate when he used his reflection.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Teleport as a defensive move

 

Remember a Hex is 2 meters across. Thats 6 1/2 feet. I know I don't take up that much space, and I doubt the character in question does either. So there should be no reason why the character can't have his SFX be I teleport from point A in this hex to point b in the same hex.

 

True. I was speaking in Hex Map terms more so than actual distances.

[薔薇語]

Re: Teleport as a defensive move

 

unless the character wants to move from the hex he is in, I would say that he only needs to buy the Missle Reflection, and the SFX can be: "I teleport 4 centemeters to the left".

 

Remember a Hex is 2 meters across. Thats 6 1/2 feet. I know I don't take up that much space, and I doubt the character in question does either. So there should be no reason why the character can't have his SFX be I teleport from point A in this hex to point b in the same hex.

 

If (as I said above) he wants to actually move out of the hex he occupies though, then Bloodstone is absolutely right and he would need a triggered teleport to activate when he used his reflection.

 

I think you all are trying to place to many rules on a well thought out plan. If I as a player(and yes I do this all the time with my teleporter) managed to line up multiple enemies so that one hurts the other, that isn't a Game Rule but a story line effect. I wouln't penalize someone for not buying "reflect/deflect" just becuase they have an intelegent character.

 

But that is just me

La Rose

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Teleport as a defensive move

 

The other problem with the Missile Deflection method is that it only works on targets that are exactly on the opposite side of you from the direction of the attack. That might easily be a -2 Limitation on the MD. You can't choose who you deflect the attack against. If you're fighting a lone enemy, it's useless. If you're being fired at from above, or below, it's probably useless. etc. And if you even attempt it once, whether you succeed or not, you probably won't get to try again unless you're fighting really stupid opponents. Even moderately intelligent opponents are likely to know better than to shoot from opposite sides.

 

You could use the Sucker Punch rules to try to lure them into shooting each other. Or you could just let it happen naturally, as part of the basic combat tactics, as The Rose suggests.

[Gideon]

Re: Teleport as a defensive move

 

I think you all are trying to place to many rules on a well thought out plan. If I as a player(and yes I do this all the time with my teleporter) managed to line up multiple enemies so that one hurts the other, that isn't a Game Rule but a story line effect. I wouln't penalize someone for not buying "reflect/deflect" just becuase they have an intelegent character.

 

But that is just me

La Rose

 

That is what the power skill is for. And I for one (can't vouch for anyone else though) would let you do it once or twice but if you want to keep using the tactic buy the power. Either that or people will start missing the person you are lined up with more and more often.

 

I do (and advocate doing) things like that because of game balance. If your teleporter uses that tactic once in a great while thats fine, but if you start using it all the time, then it's as if I decided to give you a power for free. And I'm sorry but I dont see that as being fair to the other players.

 

The other problem with the Missile Deflection method is that it only works on targets that are exactly on the opposite side of you from the direction of the attack. That might easily be a -2 Limitation on the MD. You can't choose who you deflect the attack against. If you're fighting a lone enemy' date=' it's useless. If you're being fired at from above, or below, it's probably useless. etc. And if you even attempt it once, whether you succeed or not, you probably won't get to try again unless you're fighting really stupid opponents. Even moderately intelligent opponents are likely to know better than to shoot from opposite sides.[/quote']

 

Actually I would only give it a -1. You made a mistake about missle deflection/reflection. Buying Missle Deflection allows you to deflect any apropriate kind of attack as long as you know about it. Buying Missle Reflection allows you to do all of the above and reflect the attack so that it hits someone else instead of just "being deflected harmelssly away".

 

You can ALWAYS atempt to deflect an attack of the apropriate kind with Missle Deflection. The limitation simply means that you can't use your Reflection in the situations you noted.

 

Either way considering how inexpensive the power is I see no reason not to just buy it.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Teleport as a defensive move

 

That is what the power skill is for. And I for one (can't vouch for anyone else though) would let you do it once or twice but if you want to keep using the tactic buy the power. Either that or people will start missing the person you are lined up with more and more often.

 

I do (and advocate doing) things like that because of game balance. If your teleporter uses that tactic once in a great while thats fine, but if you start using it all the time, then it's as if I decided to give you a power for free. And I'm sorry but I dont see that as being fair to the other players.

 

I agree with this 100%. In most cases, the correct answer to "logically, my power should do this" is "logically, you should have paid the points so it would do that". Otherwise, we get into analysis of which SFX will grant me the most freebies under this logic, when (to me) a cornerstone of Hero is that the SFX don't change the mechanics or the costs. Rather, you use the mechanics to best simulate the special effects, and pay the resulting cost.

 

[Muses on the numerous D&D advisory columns that direct wizards to sonic attacks because so few creatures are immune or resistant to same...]

 

Actually I would only give it a -1. You made a mistake about missle deflection/reflection. Buying Missle Deflection allows you to deflect any apropriate kind of attack as long as you know about it. Buying Missle Reflection allows you to do all of the above and reflect the attack so that it hits someone else instead of just "being deflected harmelssly away".

 

You can ALWAYS atempt to deflect an attack of the apropriate kind with Missle Deflection. The limitation simply means that you can't use your Reflection in the situations you noted.

 

Either way considering how inexpensive the power is I see no reason not to just buy it.

 

I view this a little differently. Missile defelction lets you deflect the attack. This limitation does not affect it.

 

Reflection lets you send it back at the person who fired the attack initially. This limitation removes that ability.

 

A further adder allows you to redirect the attack against any target. This limitation significantly restricts that ability.

 

I would be inclined to allow a -2 limitation to the Reflection component of the power only. There should be no reduction in the cost of Deflection, as its utility is unchanged.

[Greywind]

Re: Teleport as a defensive move

 

Either that or just write it off as the special effect of that character's dodge...

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: Teleport as a defensive move

 

As far as the defensive action, I think this is one of the few places that instant desolidification actually works, at least if you wanted him to vanish and reappear in the same spot.

 

The other alternative is the ol' +7 DCV, instant, costs END.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Teleport as a defensive move

 

You made a mistake about missle deflection/reflection.

Right. I meant Reflection. But I still think -2 (or maybe even more) is appropriate, since you can only reflect against someone who is exactly on the opposite side from the origin of the attack. Which means you can *never* reflect back to the attacker, no to anyone near him. And it's a fairly obvious tactic that is extremely easy to avoid - just don't stand on opposite sides of this guy. Unless one's opponents are particularly dumb, the reflection aspect becomes nearly worthless, hence the -2 (or more).

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Teleport as a defensive move

 

Line yourself up in the right place, delay your Phase, and roll your Power Skill: Teleport. Sounds like a good use of a power stunt to me.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Teleport as a defensive move

 

Right. I meant Reflection. But I still think -2 (or maybe even more) is appropriate' date=' since you can only reflect against someone who is exactly on the opposite side from the origin of the attack. Which means you can *never* reflect back to the attacker, no to anyone near him. And it's a fairly obvious tactic that is extremely easy to avoid - just don't stand on opposite sides of this guy. Unless one's opponents are particularly dumb, the reflection aspect becomes nearly worthless, hence the -2 (or more).[/quote']

 

I wonder if it would be fair to pay full points for Deflection, and pay only for the Reflection adder, at -2, but not for the "any target" adder.

 

As noted previously, the Deflection remains useful. The Reflection adder allows you to reflect the attack at a single target (the shooter, by default), and this allows you to reflect the attack at a single target, so that seems no more valluable than the base Reflection ability. The target must be in a line from attacker to reflecter, which severely limits the reflection, so applying -2 to the Reflection component seems reasonable.

[gojira]

Re: Teleport as a defensive move

 

Original question: I'd allow a Dive for Cover maneuver using Teleport. I might require that Teleport have the "Combat" option to use it defensively with Abort. I like the Flying Dodge idea too.

 

Lining up shots: I think I'd allow any missed shot to hit a friend on a roll of 8-. And I wouldn't apply offensive skill levels, or maybe any bonus, just range modifier penalties. After all, a hex is big, and they're not deliberately aiming to hit someone, so it would have to be really random. Things like AOE Accurate One Hex might modify this.

 

Missile Reflection and Power Skill would be a good way to increase this 8- base chance.

[薔薇語]

Re: Teleport as a defensive move

 

That is what the power skill is for. And I for one (can't vouch for anyone else though) would let you do it once or twice but if you want to keep using the tactic buy the power. Either that or people will start missing the person you are lined up with more and more often.

 

I do (and advocate doing) things like that because of game balance. If your teleporter uses that tactic once in a great while thats fine, but if you start using it all the time, then it's as if I decided to give you a power for free. And I'm sorry but I dont see that as being fair to the other players.

 

I guess I am just of the mind that anyone that can utilize there powers in beneficial ways isn't breaking the system but out-thinking the GM and I appluade that. It gives a real rush to me as a GM to have to adapt and the players a chance to be creative and know that I wont penalize them. Now when it comes to points spent I would think that buying the power skill is appropriate but not Deflection or Desolid. If the option for a character keeps coming up where two enemies are Lined Up Enough to cuase this. Then you just simply have a stupid villian and that is the GM's fualt not the players.

As an additional point. I used my Teleporter to enrage a Density increase villian that I knew I couldn't hurt to come after me. I then led her into a series of Marble posts till she finially gave out and dropped. For all We(the players) were concerned I could have just explained away my ability to tuant a villian as limited mind controll, it had the same effect but the differnce is that wasn't what I did. I use my superior intelect and what I had at hand to get the effect I desired, not Mind control. And any GM that tried to penalize me for doing so isn't worth playing for.

 

Creativity is the Trademark of Gaming.

La Rose

[Checkmate]

Re: Teleport as a defensive move

 

I would be inclined to allow a -2 limitation to the Reflection component of the power only. There should be no reduction in the cost of Deflection, as its utility is unchanged.

Good point. You could still teleport out of the way of an incoming attack (ie deflect the attack) regardless if anyone were standing behind you. I think this is definitely the way to go.

[Gideon]

Re: Teleport as a defensive move

 

Line yourself up in the right place' date=' delay your Phase, and roll your Power Skill: Teleport. Sounds like a good use of a power stunt to me.[/quote']

I guess I am just of the mind that anyone that can utilize there powers in beneficial ways isn't breaking the system but out-thinking the GM and I appluade that. It gives a real rush to me as a GM to have to adapt and the players a chance to be creative and know that I wont penalize them. Now when it comes to points spent I would think that buying the power skill is appropriate but not Deflection or Desolid. If the option for a character keeps coming up where two enemies are Lined Up Enough to cuase this. Then you just simply have a stupid villian and that is the GM's fualt not the players.

As an additional point. I used my Teleporter to enrage a Density increase villian that I knew I couldn't hurt to come after me. I then led her into a series of Marble posts till she finially gave out and dropped. For all We(the players) were concerned I could have just explained away my ability to tuant a villian as limited mind controll, it had the same effect but the differnce is that wasn't what I did. I use my superior intelect and what I had at hand to get the effect I desired, not Mind control. And any GM that tried to penalize me for doing so isn't worth playing for.

 

Creativity is the Trademark of Gaming.

La Rose

 

I agree that it is a good stunt. The thing here is that IMO, it shouldn't work every time you atempt it without paying points for a power.

 

Taunting a character is RP. Any character can do that.

 

However, as I mentioned before a hex is 6.5 feet across. Unless you have some sort of super-range/distance/balistic angle sense, even if you are standing in a hex directly between two people there CANNOT be a guarantee that if you suddenly disapear as Mr. Left shoots you that the bullet that comes out of his gun will hit Mr. Right.

 

In order to guarantee that effect IMO you should have a power. Otherwise it is the GM's choice as to who (if anyone) Mr. Left's bullet hits. Technically if you want to be 100% realistic with this, if there is someone behind Mr. Right, and the bullet missed Mr. Right then there should be a chance of it hitting that person, and so on and so forth until the bullet hits something or looses all of its momentum.

 

This is why I said I think that that move would be a cool power stunt, but after a couple of times I would have to require the character to buy it as a power.

[Tech]

Re: Teleport as a defensive move

 

As to the 'I line up two villains so when 1 shoots, I teleport, so that the first guy might blast the lined up villain', we've been allowing the following:

 

A dex roll is made by the teleporter. If it isn't made, assuming the attack would have hit your DCV, the teleporter is hit by the attack.

 

If the teleporter did make his Dex roll, the teleporter successfully gets out of the way of the attack.

 

What if the attacker is treated as OCV 0 and the unfortunate slob who's been lined up is at 1/2 DCV? Does this sound like a good idea?