Defense vs. mind-switch

[Wanderer]

In order to build a gadget that protects against mental switch/transference, which is Mental Transform, regardless of the SFX, is it Power Defense or Mental Defense ? And how much would the limitation be priced, for a defense vs. such a rare power ? -1 ? -1 1/2 ? -2 ?

[Oruncrest]

Re: Defense vs. mind-switch

 

My copy of The Ultimate Mentalist (for HERO 4th ed) has a Mind Transference power that's based on ECV (and requires Mental Defense to protect against it), so it's a safe bet to build your gadget with Mental Defense. As for how much a limitation this is, I's say -2 since it's defending against a single power (and one that doesn't even come up once in a blue moon at that).

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Defense vs. mind-switch

 

There is an optional rule in 5th UMentalist about applying difficult to dispel to a character's EGO, which doubled the EGO that has to be transformed.

 

Throw a lim on that, and you get it fairly cheap, and it isn't an effect that would come up all that often, that would be cool.

 

If the character has a 20 ego, 2 levels of difficult to Dispel would be 20 active, and say a -1 for a lim. For 10 points you would have an 80 EGO for that particular transform.

[Warp9]

Re: Defense vs. mind-switch

 

Defense vs. mind-switch?

 

Probably the best (cheapest) defense would be to have a body which is so horrifically bad that nobody would ever want to switch minds with you.

 

Or, if they did switch minds, it would be a cause for celebration!

 

Of course, then you'd have to do something to protect your wonderful new body.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Defense vs. mind-switch

 

Fantasy Hero suggests an optional, hypothetical "Magic Defense" which provides defense against every Power with a magical special effect. I'd like to suggest a similar "Psi Defense" which would have to cost more than Mental Defense.

[OddHat]

Re: Defense vs. mind-switch

 

Ask the GM to define how Mind Switch works mechanically in the campaign (vs Mental or Power Def). Then ask permission to buy +X Power or Mental Def, Only vs Mind Switch (-2).

 

If the GM later hits your character with a Mind Switch that doesn't act against the Def he specified, he was the type who'd find some way to nerf your character's powers no matter what you did.

[Comic]

Re: Defense vs. mind-switch

 

Inherent as an advantage on Body?

[Sean Waters]

Re: Defense vs. mind-switch

 

You can build almost any effect in a number of different ways, so there is no 'set' Hero System Defence to Mind Transference.

 

In a given game, however, if the GM decides that a particular method is how a particular effect is accomplished, then you can have a set defence for THAT campaign.

 

The standard defence to transform is power defence, and, unless the power is built with advantages that change the standard defence, that is what you need.

 

You can HEAVILY limit the power defence is you JUST want protection from Mental Transference: I'd give it -2, and that is only because it is very unusual to hand out bigger limtations. I strongly encourage players to always define power defence quite closely and usually to apply limtiations to it to implement that description in game terms.

 

The 'Inherent' suggestion won't work because (IIRC) Transform is a Standard Attack power, not an adjustment power.

[Wanderer]

Re: Defense vs. mind-switch

 

There is an optional rule in 5th UMentalist about applying difficult to dispel to a character's EGO, which doubled the EGO that has to be transformed.

 

Throw a lim on that, and you get it fairly cheap, and it isn't an effect that would come up all that often, that would be cool.

 

If the character has a 20 ego, 2 levels of difficult to Dispel would be 20 active, and say a -1 for a lim. For 10 points you would have an 80 EGO for that particular transform.

 

This seems a rather clever way to do it, even if it would require to use a Naked Advantage, which as a rule I regard as a rather kludgy and unelegant way of doing things, and tend to avoid whenever possible.

 

Costwise, I'm uncertain (need to run HD simulations) which would be the cheapest option, do it the way you suggest, or build Mental/Power defense with a Lim. I suspect the latter.

 

BTW, which is the forum's collective judgement ? Does Mind Switch (and other kinds of Mental Transforms) partain to Mental Defense, or Power Defense ???

[Sean Waters]

Re: Defense vs. mind-switch

 

Difficult to dispel will have no effect on a transform, unless the GM makes a special ruling, as transform does not remove EGO or otherwise damage it, but simply uses it as a 'count'.

 

The best 'defence' sidesteps the whole issue of defence and goes straight for:

 

+15 EGO (only to resist mental switching -2) for 10 points.

 

It will not make you immune to mental switching but it will make it a lot tougher to actually affect you.

 

Mind you we then have to wonder is a mental switch is a Body or an Ego transform?

 

If you are swapping psyche then I imagine that Ego is your bunny, whereas if you are somehow swapping brains, or reconfiguring the physical structure of the target's brian to mimic your own, you might feel that Body is more likely.

 

Similarly whether it is 'right' to build mental transfer with a defence of Power Defence or mental Defence deends how it si supposed to work. You could validly argue it either way.

 

If the power supresses your normal thought routines and overwrites the software,t hemn probably mental defecnce is more appropriate. If it is haveing a more physical effect - actually changing the brain so that it mirrors your own then power defence is probably the better bet.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Defense vs. mind-switch

 

BTW' date=' which is the forum's collective judgement ? Does Mind Switch (and other kinds of Mental Transforms) partain to Mental Defense, or Power Defense ???[/quote']

 

I'd say Mind Switch would best use mental defence.

 

But maybe I have "body switch". Our minds stay where they are, but my body changes to yours and vice versa. That would be defended by power defense.

 

The only visible difference in effect is the positioning of the two bodies after the switch, so it would be tough to tell the difference.

 

I think the best advice in the thread to date was "tell the GM the effect you want and ask him how to build it in his game". Sadly, I can't rep Oddhat at present.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Defense vs. mind-switch

 

To me this is one of the areas that Hero handles least well, unless the GM has done lots of setting up work to answer such questions.

 

Personally I would not mind a player coming to me with a multi-defence power - something like 20 points of multi-defence. It would cost 1 point per point and would protect against a specific attack type.

 

Thus for mind transference - depending on the power build, it would give added mental defence, or BODY or EGO (for transforms) based on 20 active points.

 

The player gets a multifaceted defence against that attack type and it costs the base 1 point per point of defence.

 

 

Doc

[Sean Waters]

Re: Defense vs. mind-switch

 

Another option which already has sfx based defences (sort of) is Damage Reduction: basically you can already buy 'Damage reduction v Magic', or '....poisons', or whatever.

 

Buy damage reduction v mind transference. Needs GM permission, but is probably a pretty good way to avoid mind transfers HOWEVER they are built - it even redcues the effect of NND and AVLD powers.

 

Mind Transference is rare enough that it qualifies for a limitation (in my book*) rather than as a replacement category, so 3/4 damage reduction v mind transference (non resistant - let's face it, who buys mind transfer killing attacks?) on (say) a -2 limtiation would cost you a measly 13 points. Even at only -1 it costs a paltry 20 points. It is that or crippling paranoia

 

 

 

 

* in crayon, I'll admit