Hero Sales Figures, new blood?

[shnar]

With some of the discussion about a HERO 6 edition, I'm curious as to what the sales numbers are of HERO 5, and how they compare with previous HERO sales. Probably the best point made in the HERO 6 thread is that HERO 5 is good to go for many years. I agree with one caveat, it's too big and intimidating for new players to pick up (the main reason my local gaming stores say they don't carry HERO anymore).

 

Is Hero Games at liberty to say how well the core rule books are selling over the past few years? i.e. is HERO getting a good influx of new players, or have the core rules stagnated? If they're going strong, then don't mess with a good thing

 

-shnar

[Steve Long]

Re: Hero Sales Figures, new blood?

 

I'm sorry, but we don't release that information publicly. Even if we did, I'm not sure it would be of much help since the market has changed significantly over the past 25 years. In the RPG industry, what would have been considered a pathetic level of sales 20 years ago is now hailed as a phenomenal success.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Hero Sales Figures, new blood?

 

It seems threads like "when will 5e be reprinted" are fairly common, which implies to me that the print runs are selling out pretty frequently. Someone must be buying all those books. I know I don't buy an extra copy every three months or so, and I doubt many people do, so those buyers must be new gamers.

 

We also see a decent number of "new to Hero" board members signing up, which also indicates some success in the sales area.

 

Most notably, the company keeps printing books. They must be making enough money to keep the ship afloat and pay their salaries.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Hero Sales Figures, new blood?

 

I know I don't buy an extra copy every three months or so

 

...

 

 

You don't?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I guess it's just me, then.

[shnar]

Re: Hero Sales Figures, new blood?

 

Yeah, this was a long shot. But I wasn't really thinking long term, rather recent trends, like since 5e was published, how have sales of core books been over the years, steady, declining, increasing, etc. Figured I'd ask

 

-shnar

[archermoo]

Re: Hero Sales Figures, new blood?

 

 

...

 

 

You don't?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I guess it's just me, then.

 

Nope.

 

Actually I have only 3 copies of 5ER. Well, along with the 2 copies of 5th.

 

The newest copy is my favourite. The binding is by far better than any printing of 5ER. If only it had the stronger, less bright paper of the first printing of 5ER it'd be close to perfect.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Hero Sales Figures, new blood?

 

Actually I have only 3 copies of 5ER. Well' date=' along with the 2 copies of 5th.[/quote']Yeah, I "only" have 3 copies of 5ER too (well, 4 if you count the fact that I also have the PDF on CD). However, I still have 3 copies of 5th, and had purchased 7 others (given away as gifts).

The binding is by far better than any printing of 5ER. If only it had the stronger' date=' less bright paper of the first printing of 5ER it'd be close to perfect. [/quote']Agreed!

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Hero Sales Figures, new blood?

 

Nope.

 

Actually I have only 3 copies of 5ER. Well, along with the 2 copies of 5th.

 

The newest copy is my favourite. The binding is by far better than any printing of 5ER. If only it had the stronger, less bright paper of the first printing of 5ER it'd be close to perfect.

 

Yeah, I'll be buying my 3rd ER fairly soon. My first had the cover on upside down (which I thought was cool) and the second had been okay, but the binding has come loose, so it's time.

 

I bought 2 5ths as well.

I've bought 5 or 6 copies of sidekick, and I tend to give them away.

 

The only other books I have multiple copies of are Ninja Hero and UMA. When the comic/game shop I worked at closed down, They let me have the run of the store for a number of things, and second copies of those seemed wise, as they are among my most used books.

[Bygoneyrs]

Re: Hero Sales Figures, new blood?

 

Speaking for myself and my son, since my son read through all my old

versions of Champions starting with v2 he wanted the current stuff. So

I bought 'everything' for Champions, Dark Champions, Fantasy Hero,

and Star Hero over this past 1.5 yrs. I am picking up Traveller Hero,

as well as Post-Apocalyptic too. Since I am converting my D&D v3.5

campaign to Hero's I need it all. Well I have a huge gaming Library and

it helps to have lots of resources to draw from. I am now 43 and my

oldest son is 12, I wish I had the mass volumns of stuff I have now,

when I was his age when I started way back then some 32 yrs ago.

I want to give my son the best headstart I can for him.

 

Penn

[Nolgroth]

Re: Hero Sales Figures, new blood?

 

Wow, if this is a representative sampling of the HERO fanbase, more books are being sold than I thought. I always consider very carefully whether I'll buy something else or HERO when I get the extra money. I'll admit to picking up the Future Armada series lately, but that's primarily because it has the most direct use for my campaign.

 

For the most part, I try to pick up HERO stuff as it comes out (assuming I'm interested in the product). I really need to get Tuala Morn. I've just directed all my purchase choices to what benefits my campaign. (As you can guess, my campaign is sort of my guiding light when it comes to spending role-playing money. )

 

At any rate, it's good to see a continued interest in the HERO product line.

[shnar]

Re: Hero Sales Figures, new blood?

 

This is actually what I was hoping to find out from a company perspective. Not exact sales figures, but trends. Has the core rulebook sold steady since it's release (after the initial big buys I guess), has there been a tapering off of business, and increase, etc. This should be one of the primary factors for driving a ver6, if at all even.

 

-shnar

 

P.S. Nolgroth, is your avatar from Fallout?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Hero Sales Figures, new blood?

 

I can say I have seen Steve mention that the core rules is one of their best sellers. And having watched the boards for the last 3 yrs or so, they do manage to sell out at least once a year of the core book.

 

Currently, I only own one copy each of the core rules. 5ER is used daily (because I'm always pulling it off the shelf for one board post or another) and is beat to hell and going strong. I think I might, maybe, replace it soonish once I finish picking up all the books on PDF and the HD Character Packs.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Hero Sales Figures, new blood?

 

Lessee.

 

The only books I don't own are the ones that are completely CHAMPIONS based, but I have a copy of the collector's edition (signed by the HEROes themselves) although I'm partially dissatisfied with how it's set up (two books with a confusing TOC). Overall, though, it serves my needs well, which means it sits on the shelf untouched, looking blue & silver. Likely because I don't play Champions.

 

However, my collection of Star HERO is nearly complete, save for Terran Empires, I think... the newest SH book, with the planet on the cover, is the one I don't have. The only DC book I don't own is DC:TAS because it doesn't fill a need. I do have Predators, which is my favorite villain book to date.

 

I have both the Equipment & Combat guides, and I don't game without both of them in my bag; while I consider ultimate books a mixed bag (Ultimate Skill indispensable, Ultimate Speedster, not so much) I own them all on principle as being a rules junkie. I own Pulp HERO, but not the enemies book, and Fantasy HERO, but none of the setting books. So it's an odd, but highly utilitarian collection of texts.

 

And oh yes. Ninja HERO and two copies of UMA (one in my house, one at my best friend's house). I have a copy of PAH waiting for me and UEP on the way as well.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Hero Sales Figures, new blood?

 

However' date=' my collection of Star HERO is nearly complete, save for Terran Empires, I think... the newest SH book, with the planet on the cover, is the one I don't have. The only DC book I don't own is DC:TAS because it doesn't fill a need. I do have Predators, which is my favorite villain book to date.[/quote']

 

Worlds Of Empire

 

 

good book. get it.

 

 

I own everything except a copy of Villains, Vandals, And Vermin.

[Super Squirrel]

Re: Hero Sales Figures, new blood?

 

I'm going to be getting Demon and PAH later this year.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Hero Sales Figures, new blood?

 

Wow, if this is a representative sampling of the HERO fanbase, more books are being sold than I thought. I always consider very carefully whether I'll buy something else or HERO when I get the extra money. I'll admit to picking up the Future Armada series lately, but that's primarily because it has the most direct use for my campaign.

 

For the most part, I try to pick up HERO stuff as it comes out (assuming I'm interested in the product). I really need to get Tuala Morn. I've just directed all my purchase choices to what benefits my campaign. (As you can guess, my campaign is sort of my guiding light when it comes to spending role-playing money. )

 

At any rate, it's good to see a continued interest in the HERO product line.

 

It's not just continued interest; other than the strong suggestion that I buy KenzerCo's Aces & Eights, there isn't much else out there. I refuse to give WOTC any more money -- Steve at least isn't "making it up as he goes along." While he does introcude new rules (The Speed Zone, and from what I understand half of UEP) he doesn't do it in such a way that you get into arguments with people if you don't own a book.

 

d20 I always felt like the bulk of my time was spent ruling down broken designs that came from the books themselves. HERO I never have that sensation; if Steve writes something I don't like, or don't feel like using, the toolkit system allows me to either revise it, or chuck it. It's not like a Prestige Class where you're afraid any tinkering you do is going to make the situation worse, no matter how badly you try to improve it.

[Checkmate]

Re: Hero Sales Figures, new blood?

 

d20 I always felt like the bulk of my time was spent ruling down broken designs that came from the books themselves. HERO I never have that sensation; if Steve writes something I don't like, or don't feel like using, the toolkit system allows me to either revise it, or chuck it. It's not like a Prestige Class where you're afraid any tinkering you do is going to make the situation worse, no matter how badly you try to improve it.

Not that I'm trying to defend D20, but you can do the same thing with any system. If a D20 book has something you don't like throw it out, the same way you can with Hero. It's actually probably easier since you can just say "I'm not using that book/PrC" as opposed to having to fight off the: "...but the president of the frickin' company says it's this way!"

[Edsel]

Re: Hero Sales Figures, new blood?

 

Nope.

 

Actually I have only 3 copies of 5ER. Well, along with the 2 copies of 5th.

 

The newest copy is my favourite. The binding is by far better than any printing of 5ER. If only it had the stronger, less bright paper of the first printing of 5ER it'd be close to perfect.

 

I only have two copies of 5ER, I had a third but I gifted it to a member of our gaming group. I have one of the original yellow paper copies (which I like because its lighter). I also have a copy of the newest printing with the errata fixes.

I also bought a PDF copy.

 

I have one copy of FREd. A copy of 4th Eidition and my old 1st Edition Champions (for sentimental reasons).

[Talon]

Re: Hero Sales Figures, new blood?

 

Not that I'm trying to defend D20' date=' but you can do the same thing with any system. If a D20 book has something you don't like throw it out, the same way you can with Hero. It's actually probably easier since you can just say "I'm not using that book/PrC" as opposed to having to fight off the: "...but the president of the frickin' company says it's this way!"[/quote']

 

I found it harder to do that in d20 because unlike Hero, "rolling your own" rules changes is not easy. New spells / classes / items / etc. in Hero are generally based on existing mechanics, so it's easy to decide if they fit or not. In d20 they are not.

 

My final solution in D&D was "if you want me to consider something from another book, I need a copy of the book first, and I'm not buying it". Worked pretty well!

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Hero Sales Figures, new blood?

 

Not that I'm trying to defend D20' date=' but you can do the same thing with any system. If a D20 book has something you don't like throw it out, the same way you can with Hero. It's actually probably easier since you can just say "I'm not using that book/PrC" as opposed to having to fight off the: "...but the president of the frickin' company says it's this way!"[/quote']

 

To me, both come down to dealing with players, not systems. An argumentative player will argue whatever he thinks will get him his own way. if the "official rulebook" or "official company FAQ/Rules Question" supports him, that's his argument. If it's nebulous, his interpretation is clearly the best one. If the rules go against him, the debate will suddenly be about "fairness" or "logic" or "realism".

 

The player, not the game, is typically the problem.

[Bygoneyrs]

Re: Hero Sales Figures, new blood?

 

Hey at my gaming table, it has always been the DM/GM has the final rulling on any rule!

A player may disagree and I will allow him to plead his case, and I will review the rules

and listen to the players request. In the end it is up for me to decide how I want to play

it and for me I am lucky because my players are all DM/GMs themselves and will play

with my final choise on the rule!

 

Penn

[Mentor]

Re: Hero Sales Figures, new blood?

 

Not that I'm trying to defend D20' date=' but you can do the same thing with any system. If a D20 book has something you don't like throw it out, the same way you can with Hero. It's actually probably easier since you can just say "I'm not using that book/PrC" as opposed to having to fight off the: "...but the president of the frickin' company says it's this way!"[/quote']

Exactly.

 

In the case of Hero, Steve Long has written on more than one occasion that if you don't like a rule as written for a particular concept or character, don't use it. This maxim is even part of the rules.

 

I have never gotten the impression that the rules were ever intended as unquestionable "holy writ." Quite the opposite, in fact.

 

The need for some RPGers to appeal to a designer as the "last word" is what resulted in the D&D phenomena of "fast and loose rules" to "Gygax needs to tell my players what to do so I don't have to make them mad" to "Gygax is to restrictive 'cuz I don't like it that way" in just a few short years.

 

Any pressure discerned by players that Steve Long is looking judgementally over their shoulder is self imposed, IMHO.

[archermoo]

Re: Hero Sales Figures, new blood?

 

Any pressure discerned by players that Steve Long is looking judgementally over their shoulder is self imposed, IMHO.

 

Yup. I'm pretty sure the only value judgement Steve is making is "Are they using the Hero system?"

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Hero Sales Figures, new blood?

 

Yup. I'm pretty sure the only value judgement Steve is making is "Are they using the Hero system?"

 

Or even more likely "Are they Buying the Hero system books?:

[archermoo]

Re: Hero Sales Figures, new blood?

 

Or even more likely "Are they Buying the Hero system books?:

 

Very true.