Star Hero:?

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Star Hero:?

 

There'll be even more in the next issue....

[Bygoneyrs]

Re: Star Hero:?

 

Steve,

 

I am only speaking as a player that has bought the first version of Star Hero (1st printing)

and has rebought everything that is out in print for SH, plus as a GM whom has played

Traveller for years and now converting my own campaign to Traveller Hero/Star Hero

based with my own home grown setting to use. Thus speaking for myself only then, I

would buy anything else that comes out for SH. I hope with TH now out there, that it

will help spur more support for each other. Also after reading your post, it is my view

of your comments that Star Hero is being left out on the vine to see if it withers and

falls off or somehow though "magic" sprouts and grows some more. I am sorry if I sound

kinda of negative, but it looks like Star hero is on it's way out to me then. I hate to see

good ideas die is all.

 

Penn

[Eodin]

Re: Star Hero:?

 

As someone has already said in this thread, the best we can do is buy and spread the word for others to buy. If the line becomes profitable, Steve can write more SH to fill our need.

 

I too hope the SH line starts to take off, and hope that Traveller Hero will bolster those sales as people buy the recommended Hero Books in the SH line (Star Hero, Terran Empire, Alien Wars, etc.), in addition to related books (Dark Champions, Post Apocalyptic Hero, etc.)

 

The more marketing we Hero-ites can do for Star Hero, the better.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Star Hero:?

 

Steve,

 

I am only speaking as a player that has bought the first version of Star Hero (1st printing)

and has rebought everything that is out in print for SH, plus as a GM whom has played

Traveller for years and now converting my own campaign to Traveller Hero/Star Hero

based with my own home grown setting to use. Thus speaking for myself only then, I

would buy anything else that comes out for SH. I hope with TH now out there, that it

will help spur more support for each other. Also after reading your post, it is my view

of your comments that Star Hero is being left out on the vine to see if it withers and

falls off or somehow though "magic" sprouts and grows some more. I am sorry if I sound

kinda of negative, but it looks like Star hero is on it's way out to me then. I hate to see

good ideas die is all.

 

Penn

 

Writing books in the hope they sell is bad business.

 

Producing anything with just the hope that it sells well is bad business.

 

Half of success is timing anyways.

 

And keep in mind the boards here represent a very very very small fraction of Hero gamers much less gamers in general and we tend to be the fands that buy stuff just because it was printed. Don't go by what goes on here as an idea of an overall picture of what's selling.

 

Ask yourself, would you throw good money after bad? If the line isn't selling why produce more?

I'd love to see more SH and more PH but if no one else is buying it I'd rather see more books that people are buying to keep my favorite system afloat. Maybe that way they can sneak the occasional mediocre selling product into the print queue.

 

But the statement "If you make it they will come" only works in baseball movies.

[Steve Long]

Re: Star Hero:?

 

I am sorry if I sound kinda of negative, but it looks like Star hero is on it's way out to me then.

 

On the contrary -- the fact that we don't go on publishing more and more supplements doesn't mean SH is "dead." Do you have the books? Are you enjoying them? Are you using them to run games, or wanting to? Then it seems to me it's definitely very much alive regardless of whether there are more supplements on the way.

 

This is both one of the greatest benefits to gaming, and one of the biggest problems for the industry as a whole.

[Nolgroth]

Re: Star Hero:?

 

On the contrary -- the fact that we don't go on publishing more and more supplements doesn't mean SH is "dead." Do you have the books? Are you enjoying them? Are you using them to run games, or wanting to? Then it seems to me it's definitely very much alive regardless of whether there are more supplements on the way.

 

This is both one of the greatest benefits to gaming, and one of the biggest problems for the industry as a whole.

I know the questions weren't directed to me, but my answers are Yes. Yes I have them and Yes I am enjoying them. I am using them quite frequently (every Thursday for the game and lots of time between them). Oh and yes I would be so jazzed to see more material for the Star HERO line, but not at the expense of economic failure for DoJ/Hero Games.

 

Heck, I have a lot of Digital HERO articles to catch up on still, not to mention some fine licensed products that I can buy. That'll give me some stuff to read and DoJ a chance to come up with more in house stuff. A HERO Plus adventure, with spaceship combat and miniature maps, would be really cool. Might as well wish big...

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Star Hero:?

 

Heck' date=' I have a lot of Digital HERO articles to catch up on still, not to mention some fine licensed products that I can buy. That'll give me some stuff to read and DoJ a chance to come up with more in house stuff. A HERO Plus adventure, with spaceship combat and miniature maps, would be really cool. Might as well wish big...[/quote']Interestingly, one of the most-requested items from Star Hero fans (in my observation, anyway) has been deck plans for starships and space stations.

 

Just thought it might be worth mentioning....

[Susano]

Re: Star Hero:?

 

Ninja and Post-Apocalyptic are stated one off genre books so they really don't count since no more was ever planned for them.

 

Which is why I sent the rest of my stuff to Digital Hero.

[Susano]

Re: Star Hero:?

 

(DH #23): M’LARRNE

This Star Hero race of dog-evolved aliens has a history of intrigue and guerilla warfare. (15 pages)

 

This article includes two NPCs and one starship. I am also sloooooowly working on something called The Derelict, or the Return of the Eight Passenger as a intro to HERO using 100 point SH character set just after teh Alien Wars era. I hope to run it at GenCon and the like as a intro to the system.

 

Oh, and I did a TE/GC write-up for the Nehkojin from Ninja Hero.

[shadowcat1313]

Re: Star Hero:?

 

Traveller Hero book 2 has several sets of deck plans in it, and there will be more to come.

 

is there a need for seperate book of deck plans ala the old Traders and Gunboats book?

[Susano]

Re: Star Hero:?

 

Traveller Hero book 2 has several sets of deck plans in it, and there will be more to come.

 

is there a need for seperate book of deck plans ala the old Traders and Gunboats book?

 

*raises hand*

[Nolgroth]

Re: Star Hero:?

 

Traveller Hero book 2 has several sets of deck plans in it, and there will be more to come.

 

is there a need for seperate book of deck plans ala the old Traders and Gunboats book?

I cannot speak for the general community, but I have been slowly increasing my collection of deckplans from the Future Armada series. I am always on the lookout for similar quality products from other publishers as well.

 

If I could only draw worth a hoot, I have about five billion ship plans floating about in my head. Okay, five billion is a bit of exaggeration, but five or five billion comes out the same when you draw strange squiggly lines that resemble what's in the noggin about as much as a pumpkin resembles a sports car.

 

One of my greater frustrations in life.

 

So, back to the topic we were discussing, rather than the random thoughts of my diseased mind.....

 

For myself, I would say yes. If the quality of the deckplans were ones that I could easily use with MapTools or OpenRPG, then I would surely be interested.

[Lawnmower Boy]

Re: Star Hero:?

 

Let's face it. Involving people in a sci-fi setting is hard. That's why fantasy outsells it in the bookstore, and it is that much harder in gaming. Most sci-fi settings are "hard," and manage to drain even more of the thrill away, while ones that aim for space opera have a hard time not being self-consciously silly. Look at the way that Steampunk ends up looking like warmed over D&D when its roots lie in what Victorians thought would be possible in the next decade! Worlds of Empire did a great job of getting beyond that, but I probably wouldn't have bought it in the first place if it weren't for the Thanes.

[Nolgroth]

Re: Star Hero:?

 

Actually I think most Space Opera settings either consciously or not, emulate established fictional settings like Star Trek or Star Wars. The Terran Empire setting does a pretty excellent job of making itself distinct in that regard.

 

I have my problems with some aspects of Terran Empire (namely starship rules), but basically it is a great setting. It would be nice to see it start to sell.

 

Star HERO is such a great general purpose book that I would recommend it to somebody I know as a die-hard HERO hater. The stuff in there is pretty non-HERO specific and really useful for just about any science fiction game.

[eternal_sage]

Re: Star Hero:?

 

i think that even a lot of space opera (like the aforementioned Star Trek and Star Wars) actually draw more from the fantasy than the sci-fi. by definition, sci-fi tends more towards the works of Asimov and Clarke (although, Star Trek is called sci-fi, so i guess i should say MY definition of sci-fi). in fact i call Star Wars science fantasy, instead, and Star Trek is there as well. those settings, however, are much easier to get people interested than more "traditional" sci-fi, mostly because sci-fi tends to be less about action, more about thought. maybe thats just my interpertation.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Star Hero:?

 

Star Wars and Star Trek are just the best known space-opera styled sci-fi. I like to inject bits of Farscape, Babylon 5, and Andromeda into the universe when I can.

[eternal_sage]

Re: Star Hero:?

 

Farscape and Babylon 5 are two of my favorite shows of all time. but yea, they are still so far beyond plausibility that....well...

 

 

it defies reason. they are interesting, thats for sure, but not very SCI-fi. i would definately play in them, i would definately run them. but i think that many people see sci-fi as boring mental exercises, while others are only interested in certain properties (like Star Wars or Star Trek) which already have decent support from another company.

 

and i really blame the culture we are in, to be honest. most of those pioneers of sci-fi wrote their novels and tv series in the prime of american scientific interest. today, most people don't care about science because its ubiquiteous. we NEED another moon mission, or a manned Mars mission. SOMETHING that actually makes science interesting to teenagers again, instead of this anti-science ID bull (not saying that believing ID or Creationism is bad, its just not science) that they are being harrassed with in PUBLIC school, on the internet, and everywhere. eyes aren't up and to the future, but down and to the here and now (if anything! mostly its to Britney Spears' child rearing techniques, and whatever else is popular these days). there is no imagination except what is fed to them via pokemon cartoons and Wendy's kid's meals.

 

geeze....here i am, talking like you bunch of geezers!! think i'll leave it at that!

[ghost-angel]

Re: Star Hero:?

 

Farscape and Babylon 5 are two of my favorite shows of all time. but yea, they are still so far beyond plausibility that....well...

 

 

it defies reason. they are interesting, thats for sure, but not very SCI-fi. i would definately play in them, i would definately run them. but i think that many people see sci-fi as boring mental exercises, while others are only interested in certain properties (like Star Wars or Star Trek) which already have decent support from another company.

 

I run into your take/attitude regarding Sci-Fi a lot. Falls under the "If it's not hard or plausible it can't possibly be real science-fiction"

I think it's a bad line of thought.

 

Ever actually READ some of the early sci-fi? Bradbury had a lot of things that weren't "plausible" and he is considered sci-fi.

 

Heinlein... Moving things into the 4th Dimension with thought? (Stranger In A Strange Land) - he's sci-fi.

 

Asimov - predicting the future (Foundation).

 

Science-Fiction and Fantasy do have a lot in common, sure. Hard Science Fiction and Historical Fantasy (where you have to be historically accurate as much as HardSF has to be scientifically plausible) are simply sub-genre.

 

You don't have to be plausible to be Sci-Fi.

 

That's why it's FICTION.

 

If it'll make you happy we'll use "speculative-fiction" instead.

 

No, wait - we won't. Nevermind. It's sci-fi. Babylon 5 is sci-fi. Star Trek is sci-fi. Battlestar Galactica is sci-fi. Cope.

[eternal_sage]

Re: Star Hero:?

 

wow! your semantics-fu is strong!

 

i like low-fantasy and hard sci-fi the best, but i have read a lot of the sci-fi you have mentioned. never really liked Heinlein much, but thats not a to big of a deal. my primary point is that as a RPG setting genre, it is limited, because hard sci-fi is not action packed at all (despite the erroneous ideas you may get from the I, Robot movie). in fact, its often boring (to play, not to read) in that it is more about thought about intriguing questions than heroic action and what have you. Asimov and Clarke are both fantastic authors who really stand at the forefront of their genre, but very few of their stories really fit a RPG.

 

basically, if you want to play sci-fi as RPG you either have to do space opera or military sci-fi. just an opinion, and if you don't like it, well you can just cope .

[ghost-angel]

Re: Star Hero:?

 

Hard SF can have action, though most gamers diverge it into Military SF instead. I blame the "Kill Things And Take Their Stuff" culture prevalent through well over half of the gaming market.

 

The problem I've encountered with many, certainly not all, is that they under some belief that Hard SF is mostly exposition on physics. Hard SF is a backdrop to work with.

 

I think people make a serious mistake in gaming where they feel the need to emulate the source material. It usually ends in sadness and arguments.

 

As for my semantics-fu - I work in a music store, I can break things down into sub-sub-sub-genre if needed

[Nightfly]

Re: Star Hero:?

 

I can see how terraforming colonies offer potential for adventure.... but months of hyper-sleep, not so much

 

I'll take the lightsword wielding froglings over hyper-sleeping terraformers anytime

[eternal_sage]

Re: Star Hero:?

 

well, yea, but imho, hard sci-fi IS an exposition on some level of actual science, especially that which poses some sort of moral/psychological/etc quandry (sp?). it uses science as a vehicle to ask the BIG QUESTIONS and explore the bounds of human expirience. that is hard to get across in an RPG (unless you have a really good group, that is, or ones who are into the subject matter).

 

i can't think of any Clarke, Asimov, or Bradbury stories (of the top of my head, mind) which have any action in them beyond some nice suspense and lots of problem solving. there may be a chase scene, or somewhat, but the only "combat" i can remember of this nature is in Prelude to Foundation, in which the main character flips an attacker onto his head and kills him. not very heroic of exciting, just flip and dead.

 

emulating the source material is part of what means you are playing in a genre to begin with. you could say you are playing in Foundation, but add in lightsabers and alien races, and it all just stops resembling foundation at all!

[ghost-angel]

Re: Star Hero:?

 

emulating the source material is part of what means you are playing in a genre to begin with. you could say you are playing in Foundation' date=' but add in lightsabers and alien races, and it all just stops resembling foundation at all![/quote']

 

No - there's a difference between emulating the source material, and playing a game that grabs onto the feeling that the source material invokes.

 

Foundation, for example, could easily be played as a group of characters trying to deal with anomalies that could set things off course from the predicted/desired future. No reason to introduce any elements that aren't in Foundation (which had psionics BTW, The Mule being the prime example)

 

And who said RPGs had to have combat? A few tense situations, some close calls, maybe a short running fight of some kind...

 

Emulating the source material is usually a failure because people forget the author had total control of everything. RPGs being shared experiences are a bad choice to do "Reenacting My Favorite Novel" scenarios. You have to find out what the Source is doing/saying and most importantly the feelings/emotions it's invoking. And emulate that using the tropes of the source.

 

Going back to Foundation, using their force of Space travel, you have days of travel before you can get far enough away from gravity to jump, then days of travel in system. There's a lot you can do with that in a game.

[eternal_sage]

Re: Star Hero:?

 

agreed! hence the statement about the right play group! many would not enjoy it, many would. but i do think that more would not like it than those who would, personally. even my group, which is very for social encounters and the like feel a little disappointed with no combat after a few sessions. its the nature of the beast, for many people. thus my statement that sci-fi is a hard genre to RP in general, with only a small sub section being really universally good material for RP, and some of that is less than optimal for some tastes in sci-fi. i think this is a big reason for the sci-fi slump.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Star Hero:?

 

agreed! hence the statement about the right play group! many would not enjoy it' date=' many would. but i do think that more would not like it than those who would, personally. even my group, which is very for social encounters and the like feel a little disappointed with no combat after a few sessions. its the nature of the beast, for many people. thus my statement that sci-fi is a hard genre to RP in general, with only a small sub section being really universally good material for RP, and some of that is less than optimal for some tastes in sci-fi. i think this is a big reason for the sci-fi slump.[/quote']

 

Consdering the "Sci-Fi Slump" has been around since the 70s or so - which is why Gibson gave the genre such a hard Boot To The Head, it was not just different but shredded every conception of the genre to date - I doubt it has anything to do with "gaming" or even generalized entertainment. Remember Space Opera was originally an insult to an SF work, not a sub-genre.

 

I would argue the opposite though - a large part of Sci-Fi is very gameable with a small portion (Hard SF) being moderately ungameable.

 

Personally, I think too many modern gamers place way way way too much emphasis on "realism."