BBC Airship Article

[BigJackBrass]

Not quite the right era (by a long chalk!), but an interesting short article about taking a flight on an airship:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/7041946.stm

 

By following the links on the page it's possible to listen to the programme, From Our Own Correspondent, featuring this article, or download a podcast version. Fast forward to about twenty two minutes in if you don't wish to listen to the rest of the show.

[tkdguy]

Re: BBC Airship Article

 

I've always wanted to fly in a Zeppelin.

[BigJackBrass]

Re: BBC Airship Article

 

Yeah, I might just have to add this to my wish list! At least this is possible, unlike taking a trip in the old Clipper flying boats

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: BBC Airship Article

 

I was just discussing this with a friend of mine in the private aviation industry. Let's just say, the return of the Airship is looking more and more likely, as certain tech breakthroughs make them ever more effective.

[Sundog]

Re: BBC Airship Article

 

I was just discussing this with a friend of mine in the private aviation industry. Let's just say' date=' the return of the Airship is looking more and more likely, as certain tech breakthroughs make them ever more effective.[/quote']

 

 

The only problem is their poor reputation. The legacy of the Hindenburg still resonates in the popular mind.

[Lawnmower Boy]

Re: BBC Airship Article

 

I'd say that the big problem with airships was their sail area. A big enough envelope will let you lift what you want, but it catches the wind and there's not much you can do about it. The heyday of the dirigible is full of accidents large and small. The Hindenburg accident just shut down the last people who were still trying.

Also, the Clippers were very loud and very dangerous, best appreciated through a haze of nostalgia.

[Spence]

Re: BBC Airship Article

 

I was just discussing this with a friend of mine in the private aviation industry. Let's just say' date=' the return of the Airship is looking more and more likely, as certain tech breakthroughs make them ever more effective.[/quote']

 

I'd say that the big problem with airships was their sail area. A big enough envelope will let you lift what you want, but it catches the wind and there's not much you can do about it. The heyday of the dirigible is full of accidents large and small. The Hindenburg accident just shut down the last people who were still trying.

Also, the Clippers were very loud and very dangerous, best appreciated through a haze of nostalgia.

 

Friends of mine in the aviation industry support AmadanNaBriona's point. Also the sail area problem looks like it may be on the road to being solved. Instead of a bag or structured bag, they are making great headway in rigid lift cells (don't remember the correct terms) that will have the main lift shape be constructed in a aerodynamic shape like a lifting body.

 

A lot of good stuff out there.

[BigJackBrass]

Re: BBC Airship Article

 

Also' date=' the Clippers were very loud and very dangerous, best appreciated through a haze of nostalgia.[/quote']

 

Don't doubt it for a moment, but it's a beautiful haze nonetheless

[Basil]

Re: BBC Airship Article

 

The heyday of the dirigible is full of accidents large and small.

What is too often forgotten is that at the time of the Hindenburg airships were still "a work in progress."

 

Don't forget, the destruction of the Hindenburg was less than 37 years after the first flight of the LZ 1.

 

When airplanes were that semi-developed, they were just about as subject to crashes and other accidents.

 

Airships are the premier example of short-sighted fascination with the loud and the fast burying a better technology. I certainly hope -- no, pray, that airships make a comeback, thanks to modern materials and technology.

[Spence]

Re: BBC Airship Article

 

 

Airships are the premier example of short-sighted fascination with the loud and the fast burying a better technology. I certainly hope -- no, pray, that airships make a comeback, thanks to modern materials and technology.

 

Not meaning to be loud and fast........

 

I say ditto

 

 

 

[megaplayboy]

Re: BBC Airship Article

 

Well, a 250 m airship had a lift capacity of about 110 tons. Double the dimensions, and triple the number of lifting bodies(iow, three airship hulls locked together), and you get lift capacity around 3000 tons. Apply some aerodynamic shaping and give it some powerful turboprop engines, and you'd have a pretty appealing heavy cargo-lifter/luxury cruise liner/airborne command carrier.

[Spence]

Re: BBC Airship Article

 

Well' date=' a 250 m airship had a lift capacity of about 110 tons. Double the dimensions, and triple the number of lifting bodies(iow, three airship hulls locked together), and you get lift capacity around 3000 tons. Apply some aerodynamic shaping and give it some powerful turboprop engines, and you'd have a pretty appealing heavy cargo-lifter/luxury cruise liner/airborne command carrier.[/quote']

 

Exactly,

 

I remember reading an article concerning the German airship company, I would like to point to a specific name but I can't remember and my google-fu has failed me.

 

Anyway the was discussing a prototype airship smaller than a normal blimp that had a ultra lightweight shell instead of a bag. Apparently the shell could retain its shape when empty of lifting gas and the airship could "go heavy" when on the ground. The shell was also aerodynamic and the twin engines could push it at surprising speeds.

 

I never heard anything more and cannot find it now.

[Tom Carman]

Re: BBC Airship Article

 

Exactly,

 

Anyway the was discussing a prototype airship smaller than a normal blimp that had a ultra lightweight shell instead of a bag. Apparently the shell could retain its shape when empty of lifting gas and the airship could "go heavy" when on the ground. The shell was also aerodynamic and the twin engines could push it at surprising speeds.

 

I never heard anything more and cannot find it now.

 

Try searching on "Aereon" and "deltoid pumpkin seed" (no, I'm not kidding; that latter one was the actual title of a non-fiction book).

[BigJackBrass]

Re: BBC Airship Article

 

Try searching on "Aereon" and "deltoid pumpkin seed" (no' date=' I'm not kidding; that latter one was the actual title of a non-fiction book).[/quote']

 

I might just use that the next time I play charades

[Markdoc]

Re: BBC Airship Article

 

I certainly hope -- no' date=' [b']pray,[/b] that airships make a comeback, thanks to modern materials and technology.

 

And the price of gas

 

Seriously though, what killed airships was not the Hindenburg, anymore than the Titanic killed shipping. It was speed. Planes are faster and even in the 20's it was obvious they would soon have the range to cover international routes. Had there not been an alternative, airship development would probably have continued.

 

I went to Capetown for a meeting a couple of weeks ago. Went to the airport in the afternoon, got into the plane, got out next morning, went to my meeting. It would have taken me 4-5 days by airship, if such a service existed. Now that would have been cool: sipping a cold one and watching the sahara slip by beneath us - but for most human travel, airships are too slooow. And for freight, ships are as fast and much, much, more economical.

 

So much as I'd love to see them back, I can't see them making a big comeback in the foreseeable future.

 

cheers, Mark

[Sundog]

Re: BBC Airship Article

 

And the price of gas

 

Seriously though, what killed airships was not the Hindenburg, anymore than the Titanic killed shipping. It was speed. Planes are faster and even in the 20's it was obvious they would soon have the range to cover international routes. Had there not been an alternative, airship development would probably have continued.

 

I went to Capetown for a meeting a couple of weeks ago. Went to the airport in the afternoon, got into the plane, got out next morning, went to my meeting. It would have taken me 4-5 days by airship, if such a service existed. Now that would have been cool: sipping a cold one and watching the sahara slip by beneath us - but for most human travel, airships are too slooow. And for freight, ships are as fast and much, much, more economical.

 

So much as I'd love to see them back, I can't see them making a big comeback in the foreseeable future.

 

cheers, Mark

 

 

They have serious advantages for military and security work. With a virtually indefinite 'loiter' period, I can't think of a better ground observation platform.

 

Of course, you need absolute air superiority (in a military setting), but chances are that in the modern world one side or the other will have that anyway.

[Markdoc]

Re: BBC Airship Article

 

They have serious advantages for military and security work. With a virtually indefinite 'loiter' period' date=' I can't think of a better ground observation platform.[/quote']

 

Yeah, but blimps are being used for that now - also for scientific work. That's a really niche environment which is unlikely to expand any further.

 

cheers, Mark

[megaplayboy]

Re: BBC Airship Article

 

Well, an aerodynamic heavy-lift airship with a speed of 200-300 kph could have substantial utility, being faster than a ship, and carrying more than most aircraft(with a likely lower cost of fueling). There's also something I remember from the otherwise-cheesy movie "Stealth", which was a big airship being used as a refueling platform(actually a pretty cool idea).

So, you could have:

1. heavy cargo lifters

2. luxury "cruise ships of the skies"

3. airborne command centers/observer platforms

4. airborne refueling platforms

 

In a gaming setting, if you could come up with a light, armored shell coating(like some cross between mylar and kevlar), and put a bunch of rockets, machine guns, light cannon and large recoilless rifles on a big airship, you'd have a pretty formidable gun platform.

[Markdoc]

Re: BBC Airship Article

 

Well' date=' an aerodynamic heavy-lift airship with a speed of 200-300 kph could have substantial utility, being faster than a ship, and carrying more than most aircraft(with a likely lower cost of fueling).[/quote']

 

That'd be cool - but so far no prototypes have even come close to that. The problem is that making a large structure that can sustain speeds in excess of 50 KPH - plus carry weight - requires almost as much structural support (and therefore weight) as an aircraft. If you are doing that, you might as well build an aircraft, which is otherwise superior in performance. That's why all the aerodynamic versions so far have been small.

 

There's also something I remember from the otherwise-cheesy movie "Stealth"' date=' which was a big airship being used as a refueling platform(actually a pretty cool idea). [/quote']

 

Yeah, but aerial refueling platforms work by matching speeds with the craft they are refuelling. How exactly are you going to match speeds with a jet in your dirigible? I mean really, if we had dirigibles that could move at Jet speeds (even slow jet speeds), we could dump the cargo planes already.

 

In a gaming setting' date=' if you could come up with a light, armored shell coating(like some cross between mylar and kevlar), and put a bunch of rockets, machine guns, light cannon and large recoilless rifles on a big airship, you'd have a pretty formidable gun platform.[/quote']

 

Hey, they'd already be large. Put a flat deck on top and hoo-boy, aircraft carriers of the air!

 

The fact that I'm sceptical that we'll see any real increase in the use of dirigibles in my lifetime doesn't mean this isn't a cool idea. In fact I like them so much I even have dirgibles in my fantasy game!

 

cheers, Mark

[Inu]

Re: BBC Airship Article

 

Hey, they'd already be large. Put a flat deck on top and hoo-boy, aircraft carriers of the air!

 

The fact that I'm sceptical that we'll see any real increase in the use of dirigibles in my lifetime doesn't mean this isn't a cool idea. In fact I like them so much I even have dirgibles in my fantasy game!

Helicarriers are cool enough that a fleet of 'em made it into Sky Captain. =) Dirigibles put a bit more of a steampunkish bent on them (Sky Captain riffing far more off oldskool scifi than modern steampunk).

 

Speaking of which, anyone tried converting some of the Sky Captain stuff to Hero?

[BoloOfEarth]

Re: BBC Airship Article

 

Keep in mind that I wrote an article for Digital Hero detailing an airborne casino/tour ship, the Bayside Blimp, so you can guess where I stand in regard to dirigibles. But in the process of writing that article, I did quite a bit of research on blimps, dirigibles, and other airships. Some of the things I learned surprised me.

 

One point I heard in favor of airships for cargo transport, as opposed to planes/ships, is that an airship can go point-to-point. You don't have to load the stuff onto trucks at the factory, then unload from trucks and onto planes or ships, then back onto trucks to take the cargo where you want it. In most cases, an airship could pick up the cargo directly from the origin point and deliver directly to the delivery point. So if you look at the big picture, the airship's slowness is offset some by them cutting out a few steps in the shipping process.

 

Given some third-world corruption** and inefficiency, this point-to-point delivery could also allow aid organizations to get food, medical supplies, and so on directly where it needs to go, without having to bribe as many officials and losing less of the shipment due to theft/misdirection in transport.

 

Despite this, I think airships would remain a niche industry, even if they do enjoy a resurgence. Unless you're talking about delivering a fairly large amount of stuff, it would probably still be faster to go truck-plane/ship-truck.

 

Now, the idea of cruise line airships, airborne casinos, etc. -- I'm not sure they would recoup the initial investment involved, but it would certainly be cool, and incredibly distinctive for a given city. That's how I wrote up the Bayside Blimp, as both a tourist attraction and a mobile city landmark.

 

 

**I have a friend in Liberia that I can't reasonably send anything to, since she basically has to pay a "ransom" bribe to various government officials before she can receive things. She has worked in other third-world countries and said this is not unique to Liberia, either.

[Markdoc]

Re: BBC Airship Article

 

**I have a friend in Liberia that I can't reasonably send anything to, since she basically has to pay a "ransom" bribe to various government officials before she can receive things. She has worked in other third-world countries and said this is not unique to Liberia, either.

 

It's a common problem (I have it ALL the time) - but not one you could solve by airships. Try sending stuff in over the border without permission and be prepared for military/police intervention: they're not going to give up their sovereignty, their security or their lucrative "import taxes" without a fight.

 

In practice, we could avoid this problem right now by sending stuff in by helicopter. But in reality we can't - we'd have our licence to operate pulled in an eyeblink if we just started shipping stuff in without going through customs and security.

 

cheers, Mark

[Lawnmower Boy]

Re: BBC Airship Article

 

Unless there's a magic handwave of which I'm unaware, dirigibles need mooring masts or the equivalent in raw manpower in order to offload. And I wouldn't recommend the latter. A surprising number of riggers were killed during the Golden Age by hanging on to their mooring ropes too long when a gust kicked up and lofted the dirigible.

[megaplayboy]

Re: BBC Airship Article

 

Unless there's a magic handwave of which I'm unaware' date=' dirigibles need mooring masts or the equivalent in raw manpower in order to offload. And I wouldn't recommend the latter. A surprising number of riggers were killed during the Golden Age by hanging on to their mooring ropes too long when a gust kicked up and lofted the dirigible.[/quote']

 

Could probably be done mechanically now, with some kind of docking port.

[Basil]

Re: BBC Airship Article

 

Unless there's a magic handwave of which I'm unaware' date='...[/quote']

 

Not a handwave, just good quality rotatable ducted fans. They've already been tried and gotten to work on smaller dirigibles.