Re-imagining DC's Karate Kid

[palaskar]

I was reading a thread about the "ultimate, most elite fighting style/system" back on rpg.net that got me thinking:

 

Karate Kid knows all of the martial arts in the galaxy.

What if we represented this by giving him every single ultimate martial art in fiction (including RPGs) and real-life?

 

Every. Single. One.

 

From Sinanju to the Weirding Way to super-Ninpo of Naruto to...well, you get the picture. The only exception would be arts he couldn't use, or arts he couldn't possibly learn (i.e., no Super Saiyan Modes, no "blitzkreigger" or what ever it was from Battle Angel whats-her-name.)

 

I'll start it off with an easy one:

 

Mage the Ascention's Do, five dots:

+18 overall HtH combat levels

(90 points)

 

Who's next?

[megaplayboy]

Re: Re-imagining DC's Karate Kid

 

I'd start the "re-imagining" by renaming him something less anachronistic.

[palaskar]

Re: Re-imagining DC's Karate Kid

 

Nah, it seems like there are too many KK fans.

 

Okay there's only one I know of on the board, but he's a really big fan.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Re-imagining DC's Karate Kid

 

It seems to me that from a game-mechanical point of view, it wouldn't be that difficult a build. Just give KK every Maneuver from Ultimate Martial Artist (with a fairly liberal allowance for multiple SFX for each Maneuver; if you wish you could buy Variable SFX as a Naked Advantage big enough to cover all Maneuver damage), a whole bunch of extra Damage Classes and Combat Skill Levels, probably Find Weakness with all Martial Arts, KS: All Known Martial Arts with a high roll, plus the usual associated Skills and Talents (Breakfall, Defense Maneuver, Combat Sense, Stealth, etc.) You'll probably want to give him a few Powers like Leaping and Damage Reduction to represent his great control over his body. I'm not sure if it would be appropriate to include any semi-mystical "chi powers" or the like.

[JmOz]

Re: Re-imagining DC's Karate Kid

 

It seems to me that from a game-mechanical point of view' date=' it wouldn't be that difficult a build. Just give KK every Maneuver from [i']Ultimate Martial Artist[/i] (with a fairly liberal allowance for multiple SFX for each Maneuver; if you wish you could buy Variable SFX as a Naked Advantage big enough to cover all Maneuver damage), a whole bunch of extra Damage Classes and Combat Skill Levels, probably Find Weakness with all Martial Arts, KS: All Known Martial Arts with a high roll, plus the usual associated Skills and Talents (Breakfall, Defense Maneuver, Combat Sense, Stealth, etc.) You'll probably want to give him a few Powers like Leaping and Damage Reduction to represent his great control over his body. I'm not sure if it would be appropriate to include any semi-mystical "chi powers" or the like.

 

I don't think you would need to buy every single one, the trick is in the skill levels

 

If I have +6 skill levels I can make my offensive strike into any of the basic Damage dealing strikes

 

Personaly, my version of KK would probably have less manuvers than he does F/X for, I would estimate about 10 manuevers, a few "MA" powers (Forward Move +6", only for figuring half move). Basicaly the vast majority of manuevers would be for distinct elements, and a ton of skill levels

 

Special effects for the win

[Doc Samson]

Re: Re-imagining DC's Karate Kid

 

I think a Martial Arts VPP would be required also. There are crazy moves in movies and comics that can't be created with skills and maneuvers (even the ones from the UM).

 

"Some say a Shou Lin Monk can walk through walls." - Kung Fu

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Re-imagining DC's Karate Kid

 

Nah, it seems like there are too many KK fans.

 

Okay there's only one I know of on the board, but he's a really big fan.

 

I am a huge KK fan. Favorite superhero ever, in my favorite comic. My favorite character is something of an homage.

 

He's have a huge pool for Martial arts and super martial arts abilities. That is what I have for Black Cat, and in addition to the HAs and KAs and whatnot you get to duplicat martial abilities, you can run Ch'i EB's.

 

Then a suite of abilities from complete control of body, lots of levels and such.

 

When I converted the DC Heroes 1st ed KK using the AC conversion matrix (the one that gave Superman a 150 STR) he came out fairly close to what Black Cat is now. That was a thrill.

[JmOz]

Re: Re-imagining DC's Karate Kid

 

4th edition

 

http://www.sysabend.org/champions/gnborh/text/Karate_Kid-sb.txt

[assault]

Re: Re-imagining DC's Karate Kid

 

Most MA maneuvers in the Hero System are essentially combinations of HtH Attack and Skill Levels. That is, they do damage, and they adjust the user's combat value.

 

A few do odd things. Some of these can be modelled by using the standard combat maneuvers available to everyone, and applying Skill Levels to them, as above.

 

Really all you need to do is work out which ones you can't handle like that, and buy them if you feel the need. Otherwise, you just need to buy lots of HtH Attack and CSLs.

 

I must admit that that wouldn't be my preferred option, personally, though. I would buy at least some actual MA, and then stack on the CSLs and DCs. (The big advantage of MA DCs is that they are 0 End, although of course you can add that to HtH Attack.)

 

I like KK. I would only change the name in order to build a homage rather than a model.

[JmOz]

Re: Re-imagining DC's Karate Kid

 

Most MA maneuvers in the Hero System are essentially combinations of HtH Attack and Skill Levels. That is, they do damage, and they adjust the user's combat value.

 

A few do odd things. Some of these can be modelled by using the standard combat maneuvers available to everyone, and applying Skill Levels to them, as above.

 

Really all you need to do is work out which ones you can't handle like that, and buy them if you feel the need. Otherwise, you just need to buy lots of HtH Attack and CSLs.

 

I must admit that that wouldn't be my preferred option, personally, though. I would buy at least some actual MA, and then stack on the CSLs and DCs. (The big advantage of MA DCs is that they are 0 End, although of course you can add that to HtH Attack.)

 

I like KK. I would only change the name in order to build a homage rather than a model.

 

STR +XX, no lift, NCM

[Sketchpad]

Re: Re-imagining DC's Karate Kid

 

Really, I would just use Comic Book Martial Arts w/ cranked up DCs, Find Weakness at a good level, maybe some Martial Art/Chi trick powers and a healthy salvo of physical skills. Not to mention a flight-ring, transuit and some uber-contacts and hunteds

[palaskar]

Re: Re-imagining DC's Karate Kid

 

Yes, these are all good. The VPP would have to pretty large (and broad) though, to accomodate stuff like the Spirit Bomb from DBZ, and some of the crazier stuff from Naruto, especially all the Ninjitsu/Genjutsu justus which seem to encompass everything.

 

I'm thinking 80 AP minimum. How that sound?

 

EDIT: Eww. On reflection, the Spirit Bomb probably does around 30d6. Explosive, but with Extra Time and Gestures. Then there's the sicko ability it has to be boosted up by getting people to increase its damage by having people give it energy. and since the Ninjutsu/Genjutsu can do about anything, this means a Cosmic VPP of 150 AP or so! (Not even figuring the Explosive advantage on it, which would increase things to 225 AP.)

 

This is why I wanted to stat up the martial arts one by one. Some of them are just so outrageously powerful, they have to be built by themselves, outside a VPP.

 

So we're talking a Cosmic VPP -- not just a martial arts pool -- just to accomodate the stuff from Naruto, and then we'd have to stat up the Spirit Bomb outside it. I'll go looking for a writeup of the Spirit Bomb. BRB.

 

EDIT 2: Ah, here we go, off Surbrook's site. I've removed the (Not while in Super-Sayain mode, -1/2) modifier:

 

Genkidama: RKA 9d6, Area Of Effect (14" Radius; +1); Extra Time (Full Phase, 5d6

takes Full Phase, 7d6 takes Full Turn, 9d6 takes One Minute; -1/2), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4), END 27

 

According to my calculator app, this is 270 points before negative modifiers! Accounting for those, it comes out to 154 points. This should be included with the Kaioken technique in a Kaioken multipower:

 

Kaioken Technique: 3d6 Succor, max 21 points, self only (-1/2), (STR, DEX, SPD, and PER rolls; and All Chi powers, +2): 32 points.

 

Kaioken MA Multipower:

154 Kaioken Martial Art

1) Kaioken Technique: 3d6 Succor, max 21 points, self only (-1/2), (STR, DEX, SPD, and PER rolls; and All Chi powers, +2) 3 END

2) Spirit Bomb (Genkidama): RKA 9d6, Area Of Effect (14" Radius; +1); Extra Time (Full Phase, 5d6

takes Full Phase, 7d6 takes Full Turn, 9d6 takes One Minute; -1/2), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4), END 27

 

Anyone care to speculate on the points needed for Naruto Genjutsu/Ninjustu? I can't find a writeup anywhere.

[assault]

Re: Re-imagining DC's Karate Kid

 

Actually, I left one thing out from my earlier post: Chi powers and the like don't seem to be present in the DC universe. In other words, KK doesn't seem to have them. It would be reasonable to give him some tricks - just not all the fancy ones. (He would definitely have Find Weakness, though!)

 

If you wanted to build a character with the stuff he doesn't have, a VPP would be the way to go.

 

The question of size is tricky, though. After all, he runs around with the likes of Superboy and Mon-El. Presumably his Chi powers would be roughly on that power level, or at least that of the Lightning Lad/Sun Boy types, who are pretty serious folks in their own right.

 

I really can't say. At this point, after all, we are dealing with a character plucked from our collective heads, rather than one that appears in any specific source material.

 

Any number you feel like using is good.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Re-imagining DC's Karate Kid

 

Really' date=' I would just use Comic Book Martial Arts w/ cranked up DCs, Find Weakness at a good level, maybe some Martial Art/Chi trick powers and a healthy salvo of physical skills. Not to mention a flight-ring, transuit and some uber-contacts and hunteds [/quote']

 

He's been shown to be able to throw anything as a weapon so you have a big EB/RKA with "convenient throwable item" focus.

He's twisted his body in midair to change where he lands from a thrown (limited flight).

[palaskar]

Re: Re-imagining DC's Karate Kid

 

Oh, I forgot Llap Goch. This infamous fictional MA was bandied about in the MA newsgroup. The tenates of Llap Goch are two:

 

1) Attack is better than defense.

2) Surprise is the best form of attack.

 

Therefore, the Llap Goch practitioner goes about attacking people before they can attack him.

 

Disadvantage: Llap Goch; attack any and everybody before they attack you. Enraged, go 8-, recover 14-

15 points.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Re-imagining DC's Karate Kid

 

The Fourth Edition Champions supplement Watchers of the Dragon included a character who was acknowledged the world's greatest martial artist, the Jade Tiger. He was an immortal and master of virtually all the Earth's martial arts, including the fantastic ones like chi powers and Yengtao techniques. He had an eighty Active Point VPP, only for martial arts techniques and powers.

 

I agree with my posting predecessors that something like that would suffice for most of this faux-Karate Kid's abilities. I recommend building absolutely outrageous powers like the Spirit Bomb that won't fit in that VPP separately. There shouldn't be that many of them.

[casualplayer]

Re: Re-imagining DC's Karate Kid

 

Karate Kid could easily just go by his own name, Val Armorr. Who's gonna pick a fight with a guy named Val Armorr?

 

Something similar to JmOz's suggestion of STR No lift, No Figured with Variable Advantages so Val can slap on Penetrating or Autofire or NND or whatever the situation demands. When you can judo flip Superboy and crack inertron with the edge of your hand, that's a lot of STR though. Being Legion-class, it's probably about a 150 pt power, maybe more.

[Sketchpad]

Re: Re-imagining DC's Karate Kid

 

He's been shown to be able to throw anything as a weapon so you have a big EB/RKA with "convenient throwable item" focus.

He's twisted his body in midair to change where he lands from a thrown (limited flight).

Like I said, some Martial Art/Chi trick powers and a healthy salvo of physical skills

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: Re-imagining DC's Karate Kid

 

Karate Kid could easily just go by his own name, Val Armorr. Who's gonna pick a fight with a guy named Val Armorr?

Brock Sampson.

[assault]

Re: Re-imagining DC's Karate Kid

 

Karate Kid could easily just go by his own name' date=' Val Armorr. Who's gonna pick a fight with a guy named Val Armorr?[/quote']

 

Chuck Norris?

[palaskar]

Re: Re-imagining DC's Karate Kid

 

Yes, 80 Active Point VPP sounds good. Better make it Cosmic, though, if we want to shoehorn in all of the funky stuff like Naruto's Ninpo and Sinanju's body control stunts.

 

A few things that the VPP wouldn't cover, off the top of my head:

 

Déjà fu- a Discworld martial art used by Lue Tze that can hit even before the blows are actually made thereby catching people off-guard. The use of techniques in splitting time into smaller useful segments facilitated this.

 

Naked Advantage: (Transdimensional, a set amount of time before the blows are made, +1/2)

 

Diamond Finger/One Finger:

Basically a Dim Mak at range.

 

6d6 Body Drain, Ranged +1/2, Invisible to all senses but Chi detection, Curable by Traditional Chinese Medicine -1/4, Once per Day, -2

 

Oh, and the various skill level stuff, like Gun Kata and Gym Kata.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Re-imagining DC's Karate Kid

 

Karate Kid could easily just go by his own name' date=' Val Armorr. Who's gonna pick a fight with a guy named Val Armorr? [/quote']

 

Ralph Machio

[casualplayer]

Re: Re-imagining DC's Karate Kid

 

Chuck Norris?

 

Now we need to make the random Val Armorr Fact Generator:

 

Val Armorr once beat Black Mace to death with a breadstick while having uninterrupted sex with Princess Projectra and two thirds of Triplicate Girl.

 

Val Armorr slapped Validus so hard once that Validus grew eyes just so he could cry.

 

Val Armorr is so manly that RJ Brande considered using Val's mojo to kindle suns.

 

Val Armorr is who Imra was thinking about when the twins were conceived.

 

Val Armorr beat the Time Trapper so badly that the sight of his mangled face caused Glorith to devolve into primordial slime.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Re-imagining DC's Karate Kid

 

The Fourth Edition Champions supplement Watchers of the Dragon included a character who was acknowledged the world's greatest martial artist,

 

He had an eighty Active Point VPP, only for martial arts techniques and powers.

 

I agree with my posting predecessors that something like that would suffice for most of this faux-Karate Kid's abilities.

 

Black Cat has an 85 and it is very sufficient. Even for most of the weird stuff.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Re-imagining DC's Karate Kid

 

Now we need to make the random Val Armorr Fact Generator:

 

This looks like fun.

 

Val Armorr once caught the Persuader's atomic axe with his teeth, then used it to pick out the remains of his lunch.

 

Val Armorr's hotness is what the Zamarons dumped the Guardians of the Universe for.

 

Computron had a breakdown trying to count how fast Val Armorr can punch.

 

Val Armorr gave a skyscraper-sized Colossal Boy such a wedgie, he couldn't "grow" again for a month.