How to build this nice knock-out spell

[Vestnik]

In the Night Watch series of novels, there is a spell used by the "Light" magicians to get large numbers of pesky normals out of the way. I am not sure how to build it.

 

It is basically a large AE spell that puts everybody to sleep. However, to avoid the problems arising when people driving down the highway and so forth suddenly fall asleep, the spell first compels them to stop what they are doing and get into a safe position -- giving them about 20 seconds or so to do this, so it doesn't always work.

 

How to build this in Hero? Ego Attack, Delayed Effect, linked to Mind Control?

[Thia Halmades]

Re: How to build this nice knock-out spell

 

In the Night Watch series of novels, there is a spell used by the "Light" magicians to get large numbers of pesky normals out of the way. I am not sure how to build it.

 

It is basically a large AE spell that puts everybody to sleep. However, to avoid the problems arising when people driving down the highway and so forth suddenly fall asleep, the spell first compels them to stop what they are doing and get into a safe position -- giving them about 20 seconds or so to do this, so it doesn't always work.

 

How to build this in Hero? Ego Attack, Delayed Effect, linked to Mind Control?

 

Sounds like a Compound Power;

 

Part One: "Command," Stop What You're Doing, Mind Control, Human Class of Minds, Xd6 to flavor

 

Part Two: "Gobsmacked!" EGO Attack (because no normal has MDef, and it already only does STUN), Xd6, Delayed Effect, "Second Element fires after first element completes." I wouldn't make it a Trigger, just a delayed effect to 20 seconds.

[GamePhil]

Re: How to build this nice knock-out spell

 

If it takes some time to cast the spell, and you want it to be fairly reasonable in cost, I would consider:

 

2d6 Mind Control, Area Of Effect Hex, Megascale, Cumulative; Set Command (find a safe place and go to sleep). This combines two potentially abusive Advantages on the same Power, but for this I personally wouldn't mind. I'd also allow the arguably double command.

 

Otherwise, buy enough dice to affect "normal" people (who will generally have 8 Egos) reliably for this level of command and keep them out for a while, probably around 15 dice (so that on average they don't make their breakout rolls too soon). Still should probably use Megascale.

 

If you're willing to hand waive some more, you can get away with about 10 dice, make it a set roll (so, 30 points), and just say that the normals affected don't get a roll to break out until the situation is resolved.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: How to build this nice knock-out spell

 

Also, once you've hit them with the Command element, Suppress EGO to 0 and they'll "sleep" or at least be totally catatonic. You can also do this by Suppressing STUN to 0 and then have it on a Continuing Charge so you aren't sucking up vast amounts of END.

[JmOz]

Re: How to build this nice knock-out spell

 

If it takes some time to cast the spell, and you want it to be fairly reasonable in cost, I would consider:

 

2d6 Mind Control, Area Of Effect Hex, Megascale, Cumulative; Set Command (find a safe place and go to sleep). This combines two potentially abusive Advantages on the same Power, but for this I personally wouldn't mind. I'd also allow the arguably double command.

 

Otherwise, buy enough dice to affect "normal" people (who will generally have 8 Egos) reliably for this level of command and keep them out for a while, probably around 15 dice (so that on average they don't make their breakout rolls too soon). Still should probably use Megascale.

 

If you're willing to hand waive some more, you can get away with about 10 dice, make it a set roll (so, 30 points), and just say that the normals affected don't get a roll to break out until the situation is resolved.

 

You know, a Mental illuison of "YOu are extremly tired" Would get around the two command thing, require that you go for the "removed from reality level" and buy the cumulitive in your build up, and you should have it...

[Sean Waters]

Re: How to build this nice knock-out spell

 

Also' date=' once you've hit them with the Command element, Suppress EGO to 0 and they'll "sleep" or at least be totally catatonic. You can also do this by Suppressing STUN to 0 and then have it on a Continuing Charge so you aren't sucking up vast amounts of END.[/quote']

 

Technically uou need to supress EGO to -30 to stop them making breakout rolls, although with a base of 9 or less, they are not likely to be waking up soon.

 

This made me think: if you have EGO reduced after being affected by a mental power, presumably that doesn't change the elvel of effect or the amount the roll originally exceeded what was needed for breakout purposes 9although it will, of course, make breakout rolls harder.

 

For example, Mind Mage MCs The Ballerina to dance for him. She has EGO of 14, and he rolled 35 points of effect: Ego + 20. She'd have done it if he exceeded Ego; she likes dancing.

 

So, her breakout roll is EGO/5+9=12-, and that takes a penalty of -4 MM exceeded his required roll by 20 (actually 21) points. Final breakout roll 8-: The Ballerina is going to be dancing for some time. After 5 minutes, The Ballerina's breakout roll is up to 11-, and she is showing some signs of resistance, so MM decides to supress her EGO. He gets 10 points of effect: The Ballerina is down to 4 Ego. The question is, what is her breakout roll?

 

Is it EGO/5+9=10-4 for level of effect +3 for time elapsed = 9 or less OR, does the reduced EGO also affect the 'level of effect: 4 EGO is 30 (well 31) points less than what was needed, which would have meant a -6, so is it calculated thus:

 

EGO/5+9=10-6 for level of effect +3 for time elapsed = 7 or less?

 

On a related topic, if EGO increases after you are MC'd and your new EGO means you would not have been affected by the original command, does that mean an automatic breakout, or just an improved breakout roll (and, probably, a new attempt at that time)?

[Sean Waters]

Re: How to build this nice knock-out spell

 

Here's a suggestion:

 

Mind Control 3d6, Personal Immunity (+1/4), MegaScale AoE (1" = 1 km; +1/4), Cumulative (72 points; +1), Area Of Effect (4" Radius; +1), Selective (+1/4) (56 Active Points); Limited Power: Power loses about half of its effectiveness (Doesn't affect witches; -1), Mandatory Effect EGO +30 or Greater (EGO+20 required to make people sleep and +10 so they don’t remember being MC'd; -3/4), Set Effect (Find the nearest safe place to go to sleep, and go to sleep there; -1/2), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4), Gestures (Wiggle nose throughout; -1/4), Does Not Provide Mental Awareness (-1/4), No effect until maximum effect achieved (-1)

 

That's 21 real points.

 

The delay in effect occurs because of how long it takes to build up tot the point where it is affecting people (OK that isn't going to be 20 seconds exactly, but it does take 7-8 phases to achieve maximum effect) and the maximum effect is 72 points if you keep wiggling your nose long enough - most people will be asleep for a good long while.

 

You might want to put that in a MP with the reverse spell to wake them up!

[Vestnik]

Re: How to build this nice knock-out spell

 

Ooh, I like. Thanks Sean! (and everybody else!)

 

I think it's redundant to get PI though, if the caster is a witch?

[Sean Waters]

Re: How to build this nice knock-out spell

 

Ooh, I like. Thanks Sean! (and everybody else!)

 

I think it's redundant to get PI though, if the caster is a witch?

 

It is, but I'm a bit of a stickler, and dont like to see people getting a cost break for something that is an advantage to them The limitation would only affect other witches, you'd still need PI. Your GM might well let you away with it though - it is a minor point, and removing it only reduces the cost to 52 AP/20 real from 56 AP/21 real.

[Kdansky]

Re: How to build this nice knock-out spell

 

Sean, that one is in the FAQ, but I can't find it right now.

 

What about

 

PRE Attack: Go to sleep!

 

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How to build this nice knock-out spell

 

Depending on how one views those normals (and I'd bet this never takes anyone significant out of the scene), you could use Change Environment (Pesky normals are out of the picture). I suspect that this would bring the cost more in line with the utility, at least in most games.

[Sean Waters]

Re: How to build this nice knock-out spell

 

Ooh - whichever route you take you probably need 'indirect' so that you can get people inside buildings and such.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: How to build this nice knock-out spell

 

Good work everyone on trying to model the effects of the spell. I was thinking though exactly what it is that the caster is trying to do, intently revealed by the OP 'pesky normals'.

 

In game terms the caster is trying to convert the potential battle ground into one where they are not going to be inconvenienced by villains using those normals (read innocents triggering psych lims etc) as hostages, distractions etc.

 

So really what they might be considering is changing the environment in some respect - I think that there might be some relevance in looking at change environment - or moreso in looking at EDM.

 

Essentially the EDM is moving the PCs and NPCs to a dimension exactly like the one where they were except that it does not include the potential innocent bystanders. You dont have to think about affecting the background cast of NPCs just the main protagonists?

 

I realise it is metagaming to an extent but surely that is what power creation is all about?

 

Doc

[Sean Waters]

Re: How to build this nice knock-out spell

 

Ah, EDM

 

This approach would be OK in a game where witches would only ever really come into conflict with other witches - if normals might be part of the story at some point, it is maybe not such a good approach. I'm always a little wary of EDm that allows you to change something 'here'.

 

Still, it is an approach well worth considering, for a certain type of campaign.

[Vestnik]

Re: How to build this nice knock-out spell

 

 

Essentially the EDM is moving the PCs and NPCs to a dimension exactly like the one where they were except that it does not include the potential innocent bystanders. You dont have to think about affecting the background cast of NPCs just the main protagonists?

 

Doc

 

There's nothing in principle keeping the Forces of Evil from threatening the sleeping normals. I don't think they actually do it in the book, though.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How to build this nice knock-out spell

 

There's nothing in principle keeping the Forces of Evil from threatening the sleeping normals. I don't think they actually do it in the book' date=' though. [/quote']

 

It must be Change Environment...they forget about threatening the sleeping innocents too!

[sbarron]

Re: How to build this nice knock-out spell

 

Maybe they just battle in "The Witching Zone." Normals sleep when anyone enters the Witching Zone.

[GamePhil]

Re: How to build this nice knock-out spell

 

So really what they might be considering is changing the environment in some respect - I think that there might be some relevance in looking at change environment - or moreso in looking at EDM.

 

A great many of the incredibly powerful magic performed in some works should probably be best done this way. If you want the characters to be able to do this, and it's to be fairly reliable, assessing a simple flat cost such as with EDM may be the way to go.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: How to build this nice knock-out spell

 

A great many of the incredibly powerful magic performed in some works should probably be best done this way. If you want the characters to be able to do this' date=' and it's to be fairly reliable, assessing a simple flat cost such as with EDM may be the way to go.[/quote']

 

Or Transform.

[GamePhil]

Re: How to build this nice knock-out spell

 

Or Transform.

 

As you wish. Precisely the reaction that caused me not to bring it up, but since Doc already did, I see nothing wrong with it, as long as it is used under the proper circumstances.

[Opal]

Re: How to build this nice knock-out spell

 

I only saw the movie, but isn't part of the deal with the Others that they want to keep themselves a secret from the normals? This spell sounds like a power that renders the 'secret' disadvantage they all share much less inconvenient.

 

Anyway, if normals and getting around them are important to the plot, and the 'secret' disad is supposed to be meaningful, yes, this should be bought as a real power that actually knocks people out. If normals are supposed to be strictly window dressing, then the spell is, too. If not everyone can do it, then it should be paid for, but it shouldn't cost a lot, like a Change Environment. It could even be a perk: "Can cast Sleep" with all mortals having a disad (for 0 points) that they fall asleep when the spell is cast.

[GamePhil]

Re: How to build this nice knock-out spell

 

It could even be a perk: "Can cast Sleep" with all mortals having a disad (for 0 points) that they fall asleep when the spell is cast.

 

Also a personal favorite of mine that generally gets funny looks.

[Opal]

Re: How to build this nice knock-out spell

 

I was thinking of you when I said it.

[Vestnik]

Re: How to build this nice knock-out spell

 

I only saw the movie, but isn't part of the deal with the Others that they want to keep themselves a secret from the normals? This spell sounds like a power that renders the 'secret' disadvantage they all share much less inconvenient.

 

It also protects them from being assaulted by said normals. Without giving too much away, in the fourth book a group of mages is assaulted by normals with a rocket launcher.

[robertep]

Re: How to build this nice knock-out spell

 

It also protects them from being assaulted by said normals. Without giving too much away' date=' in the fourth book a group of mages is assaulted by normals with a rocket launcher.[/quote']

 

4th book?!?!

 

I was only aware of three (Night Watch/Day Watch/Twilight Watch) if there is a fourth one please tell me its name so I can order it