Twilight Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 Ok the question here is simple, I'm thinking of starting a game set in Millenium City and part of that game is obviously going to involve ARGENT [as you may have guessed from the subject ] but I'm not sure how best to use them. After all, I don't want them to seem like just a Viper clone or AIM wannabes or something. So what I'm asking is, do any of you have ideas for effectively using ARGENT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 Lord Liaden had some good ideas on the plot seeds thread (man, I'm plugging that thing today) for ARGENT. I had a plot seed involving them under Defender (And actually used it TT, so I'm glad to say it worked). My own thoughts: Well, how many high tech heroes are on the team? That changes the interaction level right there. If one of your PCs has cutting edge techological power armor, then it's likely ARGENT will be intrigued to say the least. In my own campaign, I used ARGENT as a mysterious 'benefactor' for a the PC team, meaning the base was wired, bugged, and even geared to send subliminal messages to the PCs all in a covert plan to use them to destroy the Champions. Great fun Let's not forget that Millennium City is very automated. ARGENT could very easily run that town...via remote if need be. They'd want to kidnap scientists, steal high tech, and 'test run' their latest equpiment. You could also arrange for them to be suppliers to independent villains. If the PCs kick Armadillo's butt one month, have him show up the next with enhanced stuff courtessy of ARGENT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 With their corporate origins, I don't think that ARGENT would be involved in fielding gaudily-garbed stormtroopers like VIPER, at least at this stage in their evolution. They're more likely to be selling their services to other criminals. Their specialty is advanced technology, and there's always a demand for that in a comic-book world. Some possible plots include: Sales of advanced weaponry to criminals. This doesn't have to be just supervillains and their minions; imagine Mafiosi, Hell's Angels or Crips toting particle beam blasters. Sell 'em to both sides of a gang war, and you have a messy (but profitable) arms race going. The key here would be finding the source of the weapons and cutting it off. Super creation. Anyone with a criminal motivation and enough money could pay ARGENT to create a unique battlesuit for him, or grant him chemical, genetic or cybernetic augmentation. A variation on this would be the "experiment gone wrong" which escapes and goes on a rampage; or, it could seek revenge on those who created it, which might lead to PC heroes defending Argent from the experiment's vengeance, knowingly or not. This could even result in the creation of a new PC hero, whom ARGENT is eager to reclaim. Intellectual property theft. ARGENT's forte is cutting-edge science, and they're likely to be very interested in acquiring any breakthrough technology, including that used by superheroes. They might try this through espionage, or by hiring mercenary supervillains to steal the technology or take it by force. Financial coercion. ARGENT is likely to have legitimate front companies through which they continue to do business. One of these companies could attempt a hostile takeover of PC holdings, perhaps resorting to sabotage. Alternatively a DNPC or even a PC could be employed at one of these companies and stumble across its connection to ARGENT; he might then have to defend himself from their attempts to silence him. Technocratic conspiracy. ARGENT may wish to found a wider organization promoting world rule through those "most qualified", the scientific elite. They may attempt to recruit a network of criminal scientists, including supervillains with a technological background. This could be an excuse to upgrade the resources of a relatively minor tech-based villain that the PCs have defeated in the past. Hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted August 6, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 So far so good, thanks Hermit and Lord Liaden for your excellent ideas. Feel free to come up with some more. Also, any ideas on what the leader of ARGENT would be called? I myself have been calling him/her/it the Supreme Silver Scientist but I'm hoping somebody can come up with a better suggestion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted August 6, 2003 Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 Originally posted by Twilight Also, any ideas on what the leader of ARGENT would be called? I myself have been calling him/her/it the Supreme Silver Scientist but I'm hoping somebody can come up with a better suggestion. Supreme Silver Scientist? No offence, but Eww! Personally, I would treat ARGENT as an oligarchy, without a single supreme leader. Instead, I would have a council, or board - 7 is a fairly traditional number of members - with each member being notionally equal in power. The chairperson of the council might have some degree of executive authority, but probably less than that of someone like the Supreme Serpent of VIPER. Paradoxically, of course, such an organisation would be more, rather than less, centralised than that of VIPER. Presumably almost all of ARGENT's operations would involve fronts and cutouts to preserve security. So: ARGENT's leaders would be members of the Board, or Council. If you want to talk up the Science! aspects of it, it could be The Council of Scientists, while if you want to emphasise the corporate aspects, it would be more like a corporate board. The executive leader could be the "Chief Scientist", the "Chairman" or simply "Number One". More grandiose titles could be adopted later, as ARGENT starts to become more like VIPER. Hmm. Actually I suspect I prefer ARGENT to VIPER... I probably should have a good look at the organisations I want in the game-world I am designing... Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted August 6, 2003 Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 I like Assualts ideas on the set up. Also, while the books don't tell us much, I think it mentions that infighting plagues ARGENT sometimes (But not in MC, the two in charge of it there get along). Other ideas for this group's leading council: The Illuminaries Prime Council "Think Tank" the C.C.C. "Chief Coordination Council" The Nucleus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted August 6, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 Assault's idea does sound good, and I hasten to point out that the SSS monicker was a very temporary one that I came up with late one night when I was operating with very little sleep. I think "Think Tank" sounds good for an unofficial name for the ARGENT head council. Chief Coordination Council sounds like something the actual members of said Council would chose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted August 6, 2003 Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 If the changes to the leadership of VIPER for fifth edition are going to be as far reaching as Steve Long and Scott Bennie have hinted at, I would give serious thought to adapting the Supreme Serpent and Prime Serpent from the 4E VIPER sourcebook as the leadership for ARGENT in my campaign. The high-tech and corporate origins of ARGENT would make that a natural connection, and I never got to use them in past campaigns so my players wouldn't know what to expect. I could also see using some of the villains from High Tech Enemies as operatives who owe their abilities to ARGENT technology, specifically Master Control's S.T.R.I.KE. agents and the Destruction Company. If you were going to go the corporate structure route, you might want to look up the old Corporations sourcebook for Champions and Dark Champions. There's a lot of stuff there that could be applicable to your situation. Just to recap: All corporations have three main officers responsible for the overall functioning of the company: the President (heads the Board of Directors), the Secretary (administration and record keeping), and the Treasurer (financial management). Below these are the various managers who deal with day-to-day functions: the Chief Executive Officer (top manager, often combined with the President), Chief Marketing Director (ARGENT still has to acquire customers for its services), Public Relations Director (probably primarily a spin doctor/coverup specialist for a criminal group like ARGENT), and Chief Counsel (bailing out operatives, defending them in court, covering front companies, etc.) ARGENT probably wouldn't have much use for a Chief Advertising Director, but a Director of Research and Development would be an absolute must, perhaps several for specific fields since this is the emphasis for ARGENT. I'd also suggest a Director of Industrial Espionage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted August 6, 2003 Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 Another idea for a 'name' for a leadership (or advisors to the leader) council in ARGENT would be caling it "OR" which is the Heradlic name for Gold (Contrasting the Silver/ARGENT main group). And imagine the frustration of super heroes who didn't have the right Knowledge skills when they tried to find the masterminds... "They said or would be begin the master plan soon." "Or? Or what?" "Not sure, we must have missed something." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterhawk Posted August 6, 2003 Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 Once again, Hermit and Lord L chime in with the great ideas Since I'm one of the bitter percent of the population that is unemployed and ARGENT is based off a corporate structure, I would suggest something like the "Board of Directors" or "The Front Office" as the group of leaders. To me something like that gives you a nice Prisoner -esque scene, delivered ominously deadpan by a non-descript, gray suited 'middle manager': "The Front Office needs to see you." The one thing I have done with ARGENT, to make them a little more dangerous than a group of tech dealers, is given them a strike team of powered armor operatives, Hard Science. Each member is named for a scientist/scientific measurement which reflects their powers: Tesla - Electricity Angstrom - Light Erg - Radiation Watt - Superstrength/Kinetic Absorption Kelvin - Temperature Manipulation They mainly do strong arm techonology theft or serve as 'cleaners' for 'corporate downsizing'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted August 6, 2003 Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 Originally posted by winterhawk a nice Prisoner -esque scene, delivered ominously deadpan by a non-descript, gray suited 'middle manager': "The Front Office needs to see you." This gave me a flash of the 'Senior Partners' from 'Angel'. Yes, this is definitely the way to go. The Council of Scientists idea is very four-colour, but it's been done to death. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted August 6, 2003 Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 Originally posted by assault This gave me a flash of the 'Senior Partners' from 'Angel'. Yes, this is definitely the way to go. The Council of Scientists idea is very four-colour, but it's been done to death. Alan Well, I had wondered about the 'business' side of things and how compatible it would be with the science side. Perhaps that's where the major infighting comes from? There are those in the ARGENT hierachy who try to run it as a business and puts profit first, and those who seek to make sure it doesn't lose it's focus on Science. While the two sides must work together, no doubt there's some tension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki Posted August 6, 2003 Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 hide in plain site I think an interesting way to use them would be to treat them like a behind the scenes Microsoft. Why should they get their hands dirty when they can slowly dole out the technology to BOTH sides? If they were smart they would sell upgraded blasters to viper, then after 6 months or so of UNTIL getting their butts handed to them, sell them the improved FF belt. Wash Rinse & Repeat until filthy rich. Now if some heroes were to stumble upon the vicious plot well… that could be interesting with Viper, UNTIL and the heroes all working together?? Oh man… gotta go start my own campaign. Seriously though, why be in front when behind the curtain is really where the power and money are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted August 6, 2003 Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 Originally posted by Hermit Well, I had wondered about the 'business' side of things and how compatible it would be with the science side. Perhaps that's where the major infighting comes from? There are those in the ARGENT hierachy who try to run it as a business and puts profit first, and those who seek to make sure it doesn't lose it's focus on Science. While the two sides must work together, no doubt there's some tension. You know, that might be compatible with something that had occurred to me. Publicly owned corporations have a Board of Directors who determine overall policy, elected by the company's stockholders. You're not going to be selling shares in ARGENT on Wall Street, of course, but how about if scientists could purchase "shares" in ARGENT by contributing the fruits of their own research, thereafter sharing in the profits made by that research and other company scientists? (Sort of a capitalist version of the Hive from DC Comics - a collective of criminal scientists.) You could then have a tug of war for power in ARGENT between the Board representing the scientists, and the executive officers representing company management. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkusDark Posted August 6, 2003 Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 Re: hide in plain site Originally posted by loki Oh man… gotta go start my own campaign. ***Starts taking notes*** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted August 6, 2003 Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 Don't forget to follow up on Ogre's connection to Argent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted August 7, 2003 Report Share Posted August 7, 2003 Originally posted by Agent X Don't forget to follow up on Ogre's connection to Argent. Oh. I'd forgotten that Ogre's origin had been retconned. That does it: ARGENT is the main villainous agency in my campaign now. VIPER is out. (Context: this is a very simple campaign world, intended to "grow outward" from the PCs.) Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stray Cat Posted August 8, 2003 Report Share Posted August 8, 2003 Hmmm maybe I should use ARGENT too... Cat - no, that's not the canary you hear in my belly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted August 8, 2003 Report Share Posted August 8, 2003 Originally posted by Stray Cat Hmmm maybe I should use ARGENT too... Cat - no, that's not the canary you hear in my belly... Well, my character is hunted by ARGENT so I sure hope you use them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted August 8, 2003 Report Share Posted August 8, 2003 I gotta say, I love these brainstorming threads. Somebody comes in with a wide-open proposal looking for feedback, then all the creative folks around here start dropping in with their ideas, the ideas feed on each other and grow, and before you know it we're all walking away with fodder for a new campaign. Pat yourselves on the back, gang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted August 8, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2003 *is far to busy taking notes to pat himself on the back. Has the special mystery villain do it for him* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted August 8, 2003 Report Share Posted August 8, 2003 Originally posted by Lord Liaden Pat yourselves on the back, gang. Sure... OWW Ow... Should have told me to limber up first! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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