Weapon Design Question

[SuperPheemy]

Looking through Terran Empire, I noticed that the Plasma Support weapons are built as Energy Blasts rather than RKAs. Considering that as an Energy Blast, non-resistant defenses apply, I was wondering "why?" (for lack of a better term). Unless the intended weapon was to be a "less lethal" weapon, why go with an EB over an RKA, especially for a Military Issue weapon?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Weapon Design Question

 

Quite possibly just simply to not have yet ANOTHER KA weapon.

 

Or merely to do some kind of differentiation between energy types. They are 10+ DCs, a normal unarmored person is still going to be in a world of hurt.

[SuperPheemy]

Re: Weapon Design Question

 

Well, that was just anticlimactic. I was expecting some arcane rules-heavy response dealing with point costs and compatibility with Linking or Power Frameworks, etc...

 

I think I'm starting to fall too deep into my hobby...

[Cargus10]

Re: Weapon Design Question

 

Yeah, you have to think that plasma should be a KA. I just don't see flesh and bone being all that resistant to a plasma splash...

[ghost-angel]

Re: Weapon Design Question

 

Yeah' date=' you have to think that plasma should be a KA. I just don't see flesh and bone being all that resistant to a plasma splash...[/quote']

 

Average Person: 2PD.

Average Body on smallest Plasma Weapon: 11

 

I'm seeing the Average Person dropping to -1 Body in one hit. I wouldn't exactly call that "resistant" to plasma weapons.

 

Nearby people aren't feeling too good either.

And with Armor in the TE, until you get into the Battle Armor range you're adding 2-4 Defenses. I'm not exactly seeing the "non-lethality" of an 11D6 Normal Attack on your average person.

 

It's not one-shotting people, but they aren't exactly "resistant" -- add in Hit Locations, Bleeding Rules, Disabling Rules which isn't uncommon in Heroic Campaigns (at the very least Hit Locations) and they aren't exactly what you'd call non-damaging.

 

AND they're all autofire. These things HURT.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Weapon Design Question

 

Well, that was just anticlimactic. I was expecting some arcane rules-heavy response dealing with point costs and compatibility with Linking or Power Frameworks, etc...

 

I think I'm starting to fall too deep into my hobby...

 

Sorry 'bout that. I'm not the designer mind you, but sometimes the answer is "Because I wanted to."

[Nolgroth]

Re: Weapon Design Question

 

I almost thought I saw a ghost there Cargus. That's the same Avatar pic that a friend of mine once used.

 

An answer to the Plasma Weapons question; I don't have the foggiest. I'd probably just say convert them over to the same DC in killing damage, but that doesn't actually answer the game design question.

[jtelson]

Re: Weapon Design Question

 

Well "Plasma" is a pretty generic term in Sci Fi and in real life there are a lot of different "Plasma's". Flourescent and Neon lights are plasma, what kind of an attack would weaponized neon lighting be?

 

Hitting someone over the head with your Plasma Screen TV would be normal damage A dusty plasma weapon might well apply against normal physical defences. Whereas a lightning gun (Lightning's plasma) would likely be a killing atack.

[Tom Carman]

Re: Weapon Design Question

 

And now it's time for Nyrath to pop in and say "Plasma weapons are silly. It's just hot air, for heaven's sake!"

[Cargus10]

Re: Weapon Design Question

 

Really, really, really hot air . At least, one assumes it to be if it's weaponized!

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Weapon Design Question

 

Offhand I can't think of any "real world" energy intense enough to hurt a person, that wouldn't be the equivalent of "killing" damage. Heat, light, electricity, plasma, particles... they're all going to burn flesh exposed to them.

 

But this game system has that mechanical option, so why not work in a little variety?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Weapon Design Question

 

Offhand I can't think of any "real world" energy intense enough to hurt a person' date=' that [i']wouldn't[/i] be the equivalent of "killing" damage. Heat, light, electricity, plasma, particles... they're all going to burn flesh exposed to them.

 

But this game system has that mechanical option, so why not work in a little variety?

 

True enough point. Though it is worth pointing out that many people over the years (including me in this thread) noted that just because it's called Normal Damage mechanically does NOT mean it's Non-Lethal.

 

The only Non-Lethal damage in Hero is Stun-Only Damage.

 

Energy Blasts kill too. Just not as quickly.

[GreyGuardian]

Re: Weapon Design Question

 

Good Old Wikipedia has an article on Plasma

 

"A plasma is typically an ionized gas. Plasma is considered to be a distinct state of matter, apart from gases, because of its unique properties. Ionized refers to presence of one or more free electrons, which are not bound to an atom or molecule. The free electric charges make the plasma electrically conductive so that it responds strongly to electromagnetic fields.

 

Plasma typically takes the form of neutral gas-like clouds (e.g. stars) or charged ion beams, but may also include dust and grains (called dusty plasmas).[1] They are typically formed by heating and ionizing a gas, stripping electrons away from atoms, thereby enabling the positive and negative charges to move more freely.

 

Lightning is an example of plasma present at Earth's surface. Typically, lightning discharges 30,000 amperes, at up to 100 million volts, and emits light, radio waves, x-rays and even gamma rays.[11] Plasma temperatures in lightning can approach ~28,000 kelvin (~27,700oC) and electron densities may exceed 1024/m³."

 

If you handle a lightning bolt as a normal damage energy attack then normal damage is reasonable for a plasma weapon.

[jtelson]

Re: Weapon Design Question

 

Good Old Wikipedia has an article on Plasma

 

"A plasma is typically an ionized gas. Plasma is considered to be a distinct state of matter, apart from gases, because of its unique properties. Ionized refers to presence of one or more free electrons, which are not bound to an atom or molecule. The free electric charges make the plasma electrically conductive so that it responds strongly to electromagnetic fields.

 

Plasma typically takes the form of neutral gas-like clouds (e.g. stars) or charged ion beams, but may also include dust and grains (called dusty plasmas).[1] They are typically formed by heating and ionizing a gas, stripping electrons away from atoms, thereby enabling the positive and negative charges to move more freely.

 

Lightning is an example of plasma present at Earth's surface. Typically, lightning discharges 30,000 amperes, at up to 100 million volts, and emits light, radio waves, x-rays and even gamma rays.[11] Plasma temperatures in lightning can approach ~28,000 kelvin (~27,700oC) and electron densities may exceed 1024/m³."

 

If you handle a lightning bolt as a normal damage energy attack then normal damage is reasonable for a plasma weapon.

 

OK, I spent 10 minutes trying to remember if it was Dusty Plasma or Dirty Plasma and it never once occured to me to check wikipedia. I feel uncharacteristically dim.

[braincraft]

Re: Weapon Design Question

 

So the player doesn't have to roll up a new character every time the enemy gets a lucky roll.

[Susano]

Re: Weapon Design Question

 

But what about phased plasma rifles in the 40 watt range?

[Nolgroth]

Re: Weapon Design Question

 

But what about phased plasma rifles in the 40 watt range?

Only what you see buddy.

[Susano]

Re: Weapon Design Question

 

Only what you see buddy.

 

Darn....

[Beast]

Re: Weapon Design Question

 

one thing that nobody pointed out is that an EB has more knockback if you are playing with that

that 11 body on average is going to have 4"of knock back

[shadowcat1313]

Re: Weapon Design Question

 

I've never been a big fan of plasma weapons, at least not the way Traveller does them.

 

bad points about plasma weapons.

these are based mostly on Traveller versions

 

1. the damage drops off quickly as the range increases, beyond half range your better off using HEAP RAM grenades which dont lose damage, can fire 2 shots, have equal range to the plasma weapons, and flexible ammo.

 

2. Fragile and high maintenance, requiring higher tech to support.

 

3. backpack fed 40mm Auto RAM GL, 100 round ammo storage, heavy as sin, but fitted with a grav belt like the plasma weapons, much tastier.

[The Weapon]

Re: Weapon Design Question

 

But what about phased plasma rifles in the 40 watt range?

 

I should spread some reputation around before giving it to Susano again.

 

And nolgroth got in with the reply before I did.

[The Weapon]

Re: Weapon Design Question

 

Only what you see buddy.

 

We you've got more stock in "I'll be back.".

[Darenkel]

Re: Weapon Design Question

 

Odd, I always thought that Plasma was molten high-density metals that had the ions stripped from it. The only issue was, containing such a force is extremely difficult. Scientists have been trying since the 1980's or so, but never able to achieve 100% containment.

 

Too much too early?

[Comic]

Re: Weapon Design Question

 

Normal damage is generally preferable from the point of view of estimating how much damage a battle will do, in that at 10 DC's it's closer to the Normal curve.

 

Killing damage could be doing 15+ Body fairly routinely, and up to 90-ish Stun, vs the more reliable averages.

 

Not that it matters so much, if you're talking about 2-8 PD vs autofire.

[Basil]

Re: Weapon Design Question

 

Odd' date=' I always thought that Plasma was molten high-density metals that had the ions stripped from it.[/quote']

No, it's (roughly speaking) a highly or full ionized gas. Hence low density.

 

The only issue was' date=' containing such a force is extremely difficult. Scientists have been trying since the 1980's or so, but never able to achieve 100% containment.[/quote']

True. It will either chill down to a gas, or melt the container, upon contact with any container material. It must, therefore, be contained by magnetic fields. The action of a plasma in a magnetic field, however, is rather random and hard to control.

 

Too much too early?

Um,... Huh?