Concepts Killed by 350

[Certified]

For fun I wanted to throw this idea out: It's somewhere between a build challenge and a most interesting thread; what are some of the concepts you've had as players that just could not be done justice at 350 points.

 

Post the concept, why you could not pull it off at 350, and any build info you might have. Then wait, let it linger out here in forum land and creep in to the insidious minds of the other posters. With luck someone else will post a legal build that holds true to the concept.

[NestorDRod]

Re: Concepts Killed by 350

 

I can't get into details right now (being at work), but I recall cases where point limits cramped design concepts.

 

Examples that come to mind: androids and ghosts. Those are cases where the incidental effects (like Lightning Calculator or Life Support) suck away points faster than a thirsty redneck at a keg party.

 

In a more general sense, that tends to be the case for me; it's not the major attacks/powers that cause toruble, it's all the second-level effects that the concept requires to work.

[Comic]

Re: Concepts Killed by 350

 

The Super Adaptoid. Rogue. Martian Manhunter -- too many powers too useful to be built on available points. Combination brick/mimic can be done and works well; uberbrick that can also do anything, and has their own skills and agenda is too crammed.

 

The Atom -- too unbalanced in combat.

[Doc Samson]

Re: Concepts Killed by 350

 

I can't recall many concepts I couldn't do on 350 though I agree with Nestor that point caps have always been my bane. I love the idea of a full on mimic (i.e. VPP Multiform to copy anyone) but the copies always end up being watered down due to the AP cap on the forms. I'll explain. We typically use a 60 AP cap for our 350 campains. A 60 AP Multiform only lets you make a 300 point copy.

 

Comic cited another great example. 60 APs in Shrinking will push you past the DCV cap in most 350 campaigns.

[Cassandra]

Re: Concepts Killed by 350

 

Couldn't some of those characters that have mimic powers be simulated by using the Variable Special Effect advantage?

[Egyptoid]

Re: Concepts Killed by 350

 

can we define "killed" please ?

 

I can see many concepts neutered, diminished, spayed, trampled or shrunk,

but very few actually impossible.

 

Captain America is a toughie to me, depending on how you define his seeming invulnerabliity.

[Certified]

Re: Concepts Killed by 350

 

can we define "killed" please ?

 

I can see many concepts neutered, diminished, spayed, trampled or shrunk,

but very few actually impossible.

 

Captain America is a toughie to me, depending on how you define his seeming invulnerabliity.

 

Dead in the players eyes. That is to say that they no longer feel the build does the concept justice or that it simply can't achieve the power as presented.

[Haerandir]

Re: Concepts Killed by 350

 

The character concept that I've had the most trouble with is Renaissance Man. The conceit is that he's a guy who's been around since the 14th century, and has done a little bit of everything since then. So, your basic Jack-of-All-Trades/Pro From Dover concept. I'm convinced that it's doable on 350 points, but every time I've actually sat down and tried to write him up, I blow right past the cap and lose interest after the third or fourth round of trimming things down.

 

The funny thing is, I've built and played other 'immortal'-type characters, and never had a problem. But that's because they weren't necessarily about immortality. That was just a special effect, a cool bit of fluff that allowed me to run the, "I'm a snooty wizard and you should listen to me because I'm much, much older than you." routine.

 

Recently, it's occurred to me that the real issue is that he doesn't work as a superhero, but he might be feasible as a 250-pt. Dark Champions character. Trying to make him combat-capable at the power levels of a typical 350-pt. Champions campaign, on top of all the skills, equipment and perks he should have accumulated over the course of ~700 years of near-constant adventuring just gets ruinous. But with Resource Points and lower attribute benchmarks, it actually starts to look like a plan.

 

In any case, the only completed writeup I have for the character is an 800-point version for a no-point-limit campaign that I played in. He worked out fairly well at that power level... But whenever I try to write him up at the 350-point level, I come up with a list of 'indispensibles' that adds up to 330 points, even before I get to minor details like 'skill levels', 'movement' or 'defenses'.

 

Some concepts that I've tinkered with:

 

1: Buying a bunch of 'generic' skills and just taking the penalties... AK: Earth (25-), KS: History (25-), SS: Science! (25-), PS: Man-of-All-Work (25-), Universal Translator, an Organizational Contact: Renaissance Man's Friends & Acquaintances, and so on. It winds up being pricey, even so... But it should do the job, more or less. You still wind up having to invest a lot in things like Climbing, Persuasion, Lockpicking and so forth, though. Unless you think your GM won't laugh in your face when he sees Power Skill: Omnicompetence (25-) on your character sheet.

 

2: A Gadget Pool or Utility Belt Multipower. Representing things he's acquired and/or learned to make over the centuries, and the like. Again, not really central to the character concept, but it's generally the best way to make him able to hang with other 350-pt. supers, and there's something inherently satisfying about being able to say, "So, our foe is a wizard, is he? Well, let's see... I have this holy relic that was given to me by a Franciscan Monk in... Was it 1670? Or 1770? It must have been 1770, because I didn't have it during that business in Poland..."

 

3: A super-skills VPP. Frankly, it winds up being cheaper than buying a lot of skills. In some builds, I've folded this into the same VPP as the Gadget Pool, but that can lead to some very wonky conceptual conflicts... "Where did your sword go?" "Er, remember when I tried to fast-talk us past those guards? It just disappeared for a bit because I wanted to be persuasive... Don't worry, I'm sure it'll turn up again when I need it." On the other hand, this is the best excuse you'll ever have to write Power Skill: Omnicompetence on your character sheet...

 

So, as I say, I expect I could pull it off... If I ever got the urge to try again, that is. So, any thoughts on what I could try next time?

[Wanderer]

Re: Concepts Killed by 350

 

An Eternal (sorry, "Empyrean" ) which is good at several of their typical power sets. Or a similar "cosmic" generalist superhuman.

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: Concepts Killed by 350

 

I have a hard time doing characters with a decent skill and power set, but also with their own significant vehicle and/or base. For example, a Blue Beetle build + the hovercraft vehicle and base. Or Batman type with cave, car, boat and plane.

[Certified]

Re: Concepts Killed by 350

 

 

1: Buying a bunch of 'generic' skills and just taking the penalties... AK: Earth (25-), KS: History (25-), SS: Science! (25-), PS: Man-of-All-Work (25-), Universal Translator, an Organizational Contact: Renaissance Man's Friends & Acquaintances, and so on. It winds up being pricey, even so... But it should do the job, more or less. You still wind up having to invest a lot in things like Climbing, Persuasion, Lockpicking and so forth, though. Unless you think your GM won't laugh in your face when he sees Power Skill: Omnicompetence (25-) on your character sheet.

 

For the Wise Immortal wouldn't it be easier to pick up multiple Over All Skill levels and just the standard buy in for the skill? Maybe +7 Overall Skill Levels (maybe with the Limitation of Incantations: Must explain how he picked up his skill in X, this is kind of tied to the 1670 verses 1770 statement) then a smattering of other skills for things he's exceptionally good at since I think even without having the skill listed he's rolling at a 15-.

[jonstryder]

Re: Concepts Killed by 350

 

Been there too many times.

 

The first cahracter idea I had was one based off of my screen name, John Stryder. A super genius, he could read a book and remember word for word what was in it, and could then apply what he had read with surprising skill.

 

More over he was a genetisist, and had augmented his strength, speed, and durability.

 

Then we toss in the gear, body armor, utility belt, blasters.

 

Then we have his base and vehicles.

 

 

Then there are most of my power-armor ideas.

[Gnaskar]

Re: Concepts Killed by 350

 

Chuck Norris, as per the jokes

 

roundhouse kick: HKA 20d6; NND (defense is being Chuck Norris) +1; Does BODY +1; 0 END cost +1/2; 1050 active points; Only When It Furthers The Badly Written Plot -1/4; Restrainable (by grabs and entangles) -1/2; 600 points.

[Certified]

Re: Concepts Killed by 350

 

Chuck Norris, as per the jokes

 

roundhouse kick: HKA 20d6; NND (defense is being Chuck Norris) +1; Does BODY +1; 0 END cost +1/2; 1050 active points; Only When It Furthers The Badly Written Plot -1/4; Restrainable (by grabs and entangles) -1/2; 600 points.

 

I'm sorry but Chuck Norris can be built on no less than 3,500 points, and that would be a tight squeeze.

[sbarron]

Re: Concepts Killed by 350

 

The first cahracter idea I had was one based off of my screen name, John Stryder. A super genius, he could read a book and remember word for word what was in it, and could then apply what he had read with surprising skill.

 

 

Then there are most of my power-armor ideas.

What's the concept, though?

[JmOz]

Re: Concepts Killed by 350

 

3: A super-skills VPP. Frankly, it winds up being cheaper than buying a lot of skills. In some builds, I've folded this into the same VPP as the Gadget Pool, but that can lead to some very wonky conceptual conflicts... "Where did your sword go?" "Er, remember when I tried to fast-talk us past those guards? It just disappeared for a bit because I wanted to be persuasive... Don't worry, I'm sure it'll turn up again when I need it." On the other hand, this is the best excuse you'll ever have to write Power Skill: Omnicompetence on your character sheet...

 

So, as I say, I expect I could pull it off... If I ever got the urge to try again, that is. So, any thoughts on what I could try next time?

 

You know personaly I would call it a F/X issue, that you still have the sword (probably sheethed) you are just not currently using it

[Hagadorn]

Re: Concepts Killed by 350

 

My immortal paladin build had to tone back his skill list. i think I scaled it back to 110 points, including the single 10-point overall skill level.

[Black Ops]

Re: Concepts Killed by 350

 

My Psionic Memory Absorber, had to give up a lot of his original Powers and a few of the Skills he had absorbed permanently by accident.

[JmOz]

Re: Concepts Killed by 350

 

Chuck Norris, as per the jokes

 

roundhouse kick: HKA 20d6; NND (defense is being Chuck Norris) +1; Does BODY +1; 0 END cost +1/2; 1050 active points; Only When It Furthers The Badly Written Plot -1/4; Restrainable (by grabs and entangles) -1/2; 600 points.

 

defense is being Bruce Lee

[Diamond_J]

Re: Concepts Killed by 350

 

I can't recall many concepts I couldn't do on 350 though I agree with Nestor that point caps have always been my bane. I love the idea of a full on mimic (i.e. VPP Multiform to copy anyone) but the copies always end up being watered down due to the AP cap on the forms. I'll explain. We typically use a 60 AP cap for our 350 campains. A 60 AP Multiform only lets you make a 300 point copy.

 

Comic cited another great example. 60 APs in Shrinking will push you past the DCV cap in most 350 campaigns.

 

In my games I've implemented a 60 base pt limit and no limit on AP.

 

I like to run 350pt games for balance reasons. Some builds are too powerfull when bolstered with surpluss points (450 pt character in example). There some exceptions; I need additional pts, a good 420-450pts to build a halfway decent android.