Vertigo Immunity

[CrosshairCollie]

Pretty much what's written on the tin there ... a character who can be spun around, shaken up, and so forth without getting his equilibreum (sp?) fouled up, getting dizzy or nauseous, and all that.

[jtelson]

Re: Vertigo Immunity

 

Environmental Movement?

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Vertigo Immunity

 

That's a special effect. I'm not sure there is anything in the rules that trigger vertigo - that characters are assumed immune to such things unless they take a relevant disadvantage.

 

However, it is such a minor thing in the grand scale, if you were thinking to penalise players for environmental type effects then I would charge it similar to bump of direction.

 

 

Doc

 

PS - I would then allow that to be used as a defence against villains using vertigo based NND attacks...

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Vertigo Immunity

 

What about a "specific immunity" life support for pricing?

[Vondy]

Re: Vertigo Immunity

 

It seems to me you have to know how the vertigo is being modeled first. If its an NND, then a defense is pre-defined. If its just an effect of circumstance sans some mechanical power I'd propose a talent or oddball life support immunity. Its probably only worth 1-2 points.

[L. Marcus]

Re: Vertigo Immunity

 

. . . And in the real world (in case you want to involve it at all ), motion sicknes is a sign of a healthy sense of balance. A character that never feels vertigo might have a lack of body coordination skills -- i. e., lower than normal DEX.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Vertigo Immunity

 

It seems to me you have to know how the vertigo is being modeled first.

This really is the crux -- you have to know what you're defending against before you can defend against it.

 

IIRC, a vertigo attack in the USPDs was done with a DEX Drain, so Vertigo Defense would be Power Defense with the appropriate Limitation (Only Versus Vertigo Attacks).

[Tech]

Re: Vertigo Immunity

 

You can always make a 5 or 10 pt Cosmic Power Pool, with the limitation it only provides the appropriate defense for Vertigo. However, this seems too costly if choosing a 10 pts pool.

 

For myself, I'd assume the Vertigo is a Dex Drain and go with Power Defense.

[Maur]

Re: Vertigo Immunity

 

. . . And in the real world (in case you want to involve it at all )' date=' motion sicknes is a sign of a healthy sense of balance. A character that never feels vertigo might have a lack of body coordination skills -- i. e., lower than normal DEX.[/quote']

I'd love to know where you got the information that suffering motion sickness is a sign of health?

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Vertigo Immunity

 

This really is the crux -- you have to know what you're defending against before you can defend against it.

 

Yeah ... this is one of those things where the fact that you can build something umpteen different ways in the HERO System becomes a pain in the butt. Specific defenses seem to be a particular bugaboo.

 

To go with something more general, take fire/heat immunity (or 'really high resistance' since HERO doesn't do absolutes). You can take your 75% Resistant DR, extra hardened Armor against fire, and LS: Heat and it looks good ... but then you run into a wiseguy with a 'Heatstroke' END Drain, then you need Power Defense only vs fire ...

 

There are some cases, I think, in which the immunity should be innate to the power, not the defender. That Heatstroke could have the limitation 'not vs targets with LS: Heat or fire-specific defenses' or something like that. I was looking at that option when I was going to run Eberron HERO ... instead of finding a way for, say, constructs to ignore sneak attack, I put a limitation on Sneak Attack that it didn't work on constructs.

[L. Marcus]

Re: Vertigo Immunity

 

I'd love to know where you got the information that suffering motion sickness is a sign of health?

Here's theMotion sickness article from Wikipedia:

Individuals and animals without a functional vestibular system are immune to motion sickness.

And here's the Vestibular system article.

[Maur]

Re: Vertigo Immunity

 

Here's theMotion sickness article from Wikipedia: And here's the Vestibular system article.

 

Based on those articles, nearly a third of people should be pretty much immune to motion sickness. That still doesn't show that those who suffer from motion sickness are healthier than those that don't. I also doubt that non-sufferers are less coordinated than sufferers.

[pinecone]

Re: Vertigo Immunity

 

I posted something like this a million years ago...I went with POwer Def (12) Lim: Only vs dizzy -2, and Enviromove: Unaffected by motion sickness for 3. It was too expensive for a "cool power" but hey, I've got 350 of the dang things...

[ghost-angel]

Re: Vertigo Immunity

 

Based on those articles' date=' nearly a third of people should be pretty much immune to motion sickness. That still doesn't show that those who suffer from motion sickness are healthier than those that don't. I also doubt that non-sufferers are less coordinated than sufferers.[/quote']

 

Healthy in this case means "normal body operating condition" and not "better." Healthy means more than Not Sick.

 

If we've defined a normal condition to be an operating vestibular then a non-operating vestibular is an abnormal (or unhealthy) condition.

 

Though, it could also be a favorable condition.

[archermoo]

Re: Vertigo Immunity

 

Healthy in this case means "normal body operating condition" and not "better." Healthy means more than Not Sick.

 

If we've defined a normal condition to be an operating vestibular then a non-operating vestibular is an abnormal (or unhealthy) condition.

 

Though, it could also be a favorable condition.

 

The thing is that the vestibular system is what gives you a sense of balance. Without it you have, well, balance problems.

[archermoo]

Re: Vertigo Immunity

 

As to the topic at hand, in general the way to be immune to vertigo would be first to determine what effect vertigo has in the campaign in question, and then buy immunity to that.

 

Not overly helpful in and of itself, but it can at least help determine what further information is needed to answer the question.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Vertigo Immunity

 

The thing is that the vestibular system is what gives you a sense of balance. Without it you have' date=' well, balance problems. [/quote']

 

Well, yeah. There is that.

 

But you can spin around a lot and not get dizzy. That's gotta be worth something. Maybe.

[Kdansky]

Re: Vertigo Immunity

 

Life Support: Immune to Vertigo: 1cp

 

That's how I would build it. Does not come up often, does not cost much.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Vertigo Immunity

 

I like the approach but LS does not protect you from damaging attacks generally, as it currently is in 5th, so probably wouldn't help much against a lot of 'vertigo powers'.

 

Having said that, I'd allow it too

[Kdansky]

Re: Vertigo Immunity

 

But there are not too many vertigo-inducing Attacks anyway, and I'm pretty sure they might be NND if there were. Which would fit the bill perfectly.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Vertigo Immunity

 

But there are not too many vertigo-inducing Attacks anyway' date=' and I'm pretty sure they might be NND if there were. Which would fit the bill perfectly.[/quote']

 

Trouble is you can build a vertigo attack any way you like, even, for example as a mind control (single command; stagger about and vomit a lot) or just as negative skill levels, or characteristic drains. Whilst it makes SENSE to build it as a NND that doesn't mean it will always be done that way, especially for drains which are already at a premium cost.

[archermoo]

Re: Vertigo Immunity

 

As to the topic at hand, in general the way to be immune to vertigo would be first to determine what effect vertigo has in the campaign in question, and then buy immunity to that.

 

Not overly helpful in and of itself, but it can at least help determine what further information is needed to answer the question.

 

Life Support: Immune to Vertigo: 1cp

 

That's how I would build it. Does not come up often, does not cost much.

 

Which would indeed be a good way to do it, assuming a campaign where vertigo based attacks were all bought as NNDs, and they are rare. In games where vertigo based attacks could be purchased as something other than an NND, or where they were more common, something else would probably need to be done.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Vertigo Immunity

 

I personally like the idea of life support being used as a sort of limited invulnerability, but it would mean a radical restructuring.

 

Basically I'd allow invulnerability to 1DC/5 APs of any sfx build for 1 point for uncommon sfx, like vertigo, sonics, vibration, pressure and so on, 2 points for common sfx, like cold, light (specifically), radiation (obviously that is a bit campaign dependent) and 4 points for common sfx, like fire, a broad range of the EMR (excluding infra red, obviously), knives (well attacks that are based on cutting the surface, non-penetrating impact (fists, for instance, and other blunt weapons) or bullets (well, high velocity impact based projectiles).

 

That may sound insanely generous, but I'm working from the basis that, for instance, to be invulnerable to 12DCs of blunt impact trauma (e.g. punches from someone up to 60 STR) is going to cost 40 points. Well, investing 40 points in pd is going to do the trick, and if it were limited so that ONLY blunt impact trauma was protected against that has to be -1, so you could invest up to 80 points for the same cost, which is functional invulnerability anyway.

 

Against uncommon sfx, where I see this being used more, an investment of 20 points makes you invilnerable to 20 DCs, or up to 100 points of power.

 

Now we have a way of purchasing scaled immunity to certain effects. We'd have to think about how we treat advantages on powers your have LS for, and whether we work against active or real cost, but my preference would be simplicity: 1d6 or 5 AP of the base power, so if you have a highly advantaged small power, the immunity will work effectively, even if the actual cost is enormous. I'm very suspicious of massed advantages.

 

Clean and easy to understand immunity/invulnerability. Expanded LS. Sweet.

[Kdansky]

Re: Vertigo Immunity

 

Oh, that is neat, sean, totally neat! Go post that in 6th! And tell Steve I think it's great!

 

Actually, that is so cool that I will write this down right now and allow it in any game from now on. Utterly genious! That's why we keep you around.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Vertigo Immunity

 

Oh, that is neat, sean, totally neat! Go post that in 6th! And tell Steve I think it's great!

 

Actually, that is so cool that I will write this down right now and allow it in any game from now on. Utterly genious! That's why we keep you around.

 

Woof woof