What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

[megaplayboy]

Having been on many a thread where physical attractiveness is discussed, both in game and non-game terms, I've often seen variations on the theme "so and so doesn't do a thing for me", or "I don't really like blondes" or somesuch. To me, this begs the question, what DO they like? Who does "do something" for them?

 

So, I'm asking. Here are the guidelines for responses:

1. Pick someone in the public eye, and who most people may have heard of, who you find VERY physically attractive. (this pretty much means no girlfriends, wives, etc.)--multiple examples preferred.

2. Explain why, what you feel their appealing features are, and whether you like these kinds of features in general. Do not mention their personality or their politics or their charity work--this is strictly about the "look" you find appealing. If it helps, think of it this way--all else being equal(personality, intelligence, etc.), which look do you tend to find the most appealing?

3. pics optional, but appreciated--links probably work best, given the various strictures in place here.

 

I will post my preferences a little later today.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

20 = Jewel Staite (Stargate Atlantis) who is kid sister cute.

 

image 1

image 2

 

30 = Angelina Jolie.

[Vondy]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

I don't propose these are "20s," nor do I place them in any order.

 

Vivian Leigh http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb104/ingenuebloom/VivienLeigh.jpg

 

Hedy Lamarr http://www.isomatic.co.uk/uploaded_images/HedyLamarr-740002.jpg

 

Lauren Bacall http://www.libertyfilmfestival.com/libertas/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/bacall.jpg

 

Rita Haworth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Rita_Hayworth_in_Blood_and_Sand_trailer.jpg

 

Audrey Hepburn http://www.geocities.com/audreyhepburn6/audrey_hepburn.jpg

 

Natalie Portman http://abreka.com/jbn/images/natalie-portman.jpg

 

Rose McGowan http://www.gloss.co.nz/images/userblog/13288/rose-mcgowan-picture-2.jpg

 

Kate Beckinsale http://www.moviezine.se/filmbilder/003/underworld6.jpg

 

Monica Belucci http://dienekes.50webs.com/blog/archives/bellucci.jpg

 

Navi Rawat http://www.alteregoproductions.org/blog/images/navi%20rawat.jpg

 

Hadar Uzeri http://hydepark.hevre.co.il/upload07/050930_031803-11147_sh28.jpg

 

Queen Raina http://img.timeinc.net/time/2004/time100/heroes/images/100raina.jpg

 

Someone else will have to tell me what the common denominator is.

[Beast]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

for me a 20 com is going to be a head turner

using a 20 com as either a skill roll or complementry gives what I consider

the eye of the beholder

a good roll means they used what their creator gave them

a bad roll may mean the target may not be into blonds

 

this is what having Com as a stat means to me

there can be some variance in how other react to them

some may fall ass over tea kettle for them or they are non-plused

of course buying it higher give you better chances of getting the roll you want

this of course can be augmented by certain disads like womanizer,lustful,fond of handsome gentlemen,etc...

 

buy making it a talent you force the issue(I have 4 ranks of beauty so I am always going to do better than those who have less)

there is never going to be that variance that the target may not like redheads or some other factor that is in the characters discription

I want there to be that chance that the underdog may win out(or the fox falls flat on their face)

[Vondy]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

for me a 20 com is going to be a head turner

using a 20 com as either a skill roll or complementry gives what I consider

the eye of the beholder

a good roll means they used what their creator gave them

a bad roll may mean the target may not be into blonds

 

this is what having Com as a stat means to me

there can be some variance in how other react to them

some may fall ass over tea kettle for them or they are non-plused

of course buying it higher give you better chances of getting the roll you want

this of course can be augmented by certain disads like womanizer,lustful,fond of handsome gentlemen,etc...

 

buy making it a talent you force the issue(I have 4 ranks of beauty so I am always going to do better than those who have less)

there is never going to be that variance that the target may not like redheads or some other factor that is in the characters discription

I want there to be that chance that the underdog may win out(or the fox falls flat on their face)

 

I pretty much agree with you. I won't nitpick any fine points.

[Beast]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

Please do nitpick any fine points

I have a pretty thick skin(on occasion skull too)

If there are other thing that may change my mind I would want to hear them

so far there has not been a good one yet on removing Com

 

I pretty much agree with you. I won't nitpick any fine points.

[Vondy]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

Please do nitpick any fine points

I have a pretty thick skin(on occasion skull too)

If there are other thing that may change my mind I would want to hear them

so far there has not been a good one yet on removing Com

 

And I can't make one. I'll post my thoughts in the other thread in order to keep this one on track.

[megaplayboy]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

Appreciate the thoughts on COM, but this thread is for what posters consider to be real world examples of high COM individuals (more specifically, beautiful/physically attractive in the eye of the beholder/poster).

[pinecone]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

Sharon Stone is likely in the 18-20 range...I consider Sigorny Weaver to be in that range as well.

 

Classics in the 20 range would be (IMO) Betty Page, and Monroe...Famous beyond their own time...

[Hyper-Man]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

Sharon Stone is likely in the 18-20 range...I consider Sigorny Weaver to be in that range as well.

 

Classics in the 20 range would be (IMO) Betty Page, and Monroe...Famous beyond their own time...

 

Any particular reason you are leaving out the 21-30 range?

[pinecone]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

I'm sorry, but for me what the heck does that look like?

 

It's really a "style thing. I think of 18-20 to be as atractive as a human gets, barring being "your type" as well.... I just lack the immagination for "more than human" good looks.

 

For me Christina Ricci is "all that", but what is she for others? likely 16 to 18 I'd say...

 

So where would you put the "Pamalas" (Pam Anderson, and Pam Grier) at 20? above?(both at the same time?...oopps I was gone awhile, I'm back now.. )...for me they have not yet met the test of time. Helen is still renowned after 1000+ years...so I guess she was above 20....

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

This is a tough question to answer for me, because of how it's phrased. Because who is very attractive to me is not necessarily the same thing as who I objectively acknowledge is very beautiful. It's like the difference between asking what are my five favorite movies of all time, vs. what I think are the five best movies of all time. Big Trouble In Little China is absolutely one of my all-time favorite movies. Is it one of the all-time best movies? No, of course not; not even close.

 

So I guess I need to know which way you want me to answer. Are you looking for the folks who make my own personal "list of 5" (Friends reference), or who I think would likely make the most lists of 5?

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

My personal list of 20 COM actresses (and 1 actor)

 

Rose McGowan: Pre-charmed (she ranks about an 18 during the Charmed years....too skinny)

Jennifer Connelly: Career Opportunities/Some Girls (this is her "peak" probably during her early to mid twenties. Recently she's become too skinny like most actresses)

Christina Ricci: Sleepy Hollow (when she looked her best...though I prefer her brunette look to her blonde locks in Hollow, she still was the epitome of cute)

Scarlette Johansen: Simply stunning. And I'm not really into blondes

Monica Belucci: Yowza!

Kelly Brooke: wife of Billy Zane. google her. In some of her pics, she exceeds a 20 IMO.

 

And the actor:

Johnny Depp: My girlfriend (and most of her female friends) go on and on (and on and on and on) about how ridiculously good looking he is, so I figure he ranks a 20 or pretty close.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

Any particular reason you are leaving out the 21-30 range?

 

Because that is the realm of the supernatural. Like angels, goddesses and Angelina Jolie (in between Hackers and Tomb Raider)

[megaplayboy]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

This is a tough question to answer for me' date=' because of how it's phrased. Because who is very attractive [b']to me[/b] is not necessarily the same thing as who I objectively acknowledge is very beautiful. It's like the difference between asking what are my five favorite movies of all time, vs. what I think are the five best movies of all time. Big Trouble In Little China is absolutely one of my all-time favorite movies. Is it one of the all-time best movies? No, of course not; not even close.

 

So I guess I need to know which way you want me to answer. Are you looking for the folks who make my own personal "list of 5" (Friends reference), or who I think would likely make the most lists of 5?

 

generally speaking, the former, but you can include the latter as well.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

Because that is the realm of the supernatural. Like angels' date=' goddesses and Angelina Jolie (in between Hackers and Tomb Raider)[/quote']

 

lol

[Hyper-Man]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

I'm sorry, but for me what the heck does that look like?

 

It's really a "style thing. I think of 18-20 to be as atractive as a human gets....

 

Why does this misconception of NCM continue?

 

20 is NOT the maximum human potential of any base HERO stat. It is just the point beyond which stats cost double the norm.

 

30 is the suggested max. (see 5er page 28 for details)

[Guest steamteck]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

Why does this misconception of NCM continue?

 

20 is NOT the maximum human potential of any base HERO stat. It is just the point beyond which stats cost double the norm.

 

30 is the suggested max. (see 5er page 28 for details)

 

 

probably because of the chart showing how much you can lift and relating it to real weightlifters. etc.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

probably because of the chart showing how much you can lift and relating it to real weightlifters. etc.

 

And below the chart in the notes it states:

 

Char: The typical range of characters’ Primary Characteristics. Some Characteristics tend to be on the higher end of (or even outside) the range (STR for “brick” characters, for example), and some (such as EGO) are typically on the low end of the range.

 

So I repeat, 20 is NOT a maximum base characteristic for a normal human character.

[Vondy]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

Why does this misconception of NCM continue?

 

20 is NOT the maximum human potential of any base HERO stat. It is just the point beyond which stats cost double the norm.

 

30 is the suggested max. (see 5er page 28 for details)

 

It is, however, the suggested cap for anything but legendary characteristics. And thats where we run into the problem. We all have somewhat different definitions of what legendary entails. Are we talking about the myriad of celebrities you see [most of whom don't look quite that good in person] or are we talking Helen of Troy? Are we talking a champion power-lifter, or Conan on Barbarian Ubermentschen Juice? Are we talking about someone you might actually meet, or does legendary imply something more mythic? Nomenclature matters. Also, because 30 only works for some genres. It makes sense for some genres and play styles to cap at 30. Others - not. I say this for two reasons: 1) the strength chart, and 2) the bell curve for skill rolls.

 

1) the strength chart problem

 

The strength chart is tailored to high-end cinematic and super-heroic games. Its a concrete measure and anything beyond 21-22 is approaching the realm of fiction. It may be good fiction, but its fiction. All of the other stats are completely abstract. It doesn't matter if you set the human max at 20, 30, 40, or 50 because they scale however you want them to. Strength doesn't. When Steve weighed in and changed the maxima for normal humans in 5E he didn't adjust for this. As a result the suggestions in the book don't actually work for every genre and have to be tweaked for individual games and play-styles. Not everyone plays games where 30 is appropriate.

 

And...

 

2) the 3d6 bell curve probabilities

 

Along the same lines, not every game does well with base skill rolls that run past 13-. If you have stats running to 30 you can end up with base skill rolls that hit 14- and 15-. Now, its possible to fail at those levels, but if you look at the curve its not going to happen very often - and its going to be across the board for a broad class of skills and its going to be cheap. For some games those kinds of rolls should be the result of major training, investment of time and points, or a combination of complimentary skills. What works for one genre or groups play-style may not work for another.

 

And this has been my main issue with 5E, by the way. While it has provided some nice tools and markets itself as a tool-kit - its not really a tool-kit. Its close, but it didn't take the plunge. Which is why, while I want to run a lot of games in hero due to its granularity, I often end up using SilCore instead. Its also dictated play-style more than is necessary. Why would anyone assume that what was written on Page 28 of the rule-book work for every genre or style of game? Why does that myth persist?

[Vondy]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

 

 

So I repeat, 20 is NOT a maximum base characteristic for a normal human character.

 

And yet championship weightlifters have never broken the 21-22 marker. Go look at world records for "clean, jerk, and drop." The note under the chart doesn't change reality. The other stats are abstract - you can cap them anywhere. Strength, however, is concrete - and the chart only lines up if Conan on steroids is considered a normal human.

 

So I repeat, the system's default takes a position that isn't appropriate for a lot of games. Some of us run lowly, sad-sack games that happen down here on planet earth. How hard is that to grasp?

 

And why can't someone say they are participating in a discussion with the working parameter of "20 tops" without your ramming your preferred playstyle down their throat?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

And what about the Age Disadvantage on page 330 of 5er?

 

A "normal" aged 60+ can have an INT, EGO or PRE of up to 30 before paying the x2 penalty for NCM.

 

This didn't change from 4th edition afaik.

 

But again, we are digressing from the original posters question which is about Comliness and real world example of 20 in that stat.

[Vondy]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

And what about the Age Disadvantage on page 330 of 5er?

 

A "normal" aged 60+ can have an INT, EGO or PRE of up to 30 before paying the x2 penalty for NCM.

 

This didn't change from 4th edition afaik.

 

But again, we are digressing from the original posters question which is about Comliness and real world example of 20 in that stat.

 

1) I never used it because its a wonky rule.

2) I already allowed that primaries other than strength are abstractions.

3) I focused on the fact that the rules are NOT one size fits all out of the box.

 

We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming...

[Hyper-Man]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

...

 

And why can't someone say they are participating in a discussion with the working parameter of "20 tops" without your ramming your preferred playstyle down their throat?

 

The original poster (megaplayboy*) did not say "the MOST physically attractive", he said "who you find VERY physically attractive". Nowhere did he describe 20 as a maximum either.

 

My "preferred playstyle" has nothing to do with the discussion. That might be appropriate if we were on one of the genre forums but we are on the HERO System Discussion forum which should be as close to house-rule free as possible to avoid confusion. If anything it sounds as though you are attempting to push your house-rule interpretation.

 

..

 

clearly I am getting too emotional about this so I will attempt to refrain from further comment.

[Vondy]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

 

My "preferred playstyle" has nothing to do with the discussion. That might be appropriate if we were on one of the genre forums but we are on the HERO System Discussion forum which should be as close to house-rule free as possible to avoid confusion. If anything it sounds as though you are attempting to push your house-rule interpretation.

 

 

Utter nonsense. The person you responded to openly admitted that their response was subjective and not in line with the human maxima is 30 baseline in the system. They said they couldn't get their head around that. It other words they were honest and clarified their remarks in advance. And yet, despite that, you couldn't just accept their answer without telling them how wrong they were. You had to go off about it. Not only that, but nowhere have I suggested that anyone should run their games the way I do or use 20 as the universal human maxima. Hell, I don't even use it as a universal maxima for all of my games. Just the ones where its appropriate. I merely pointed out that the rules, as written, fail to be appropriate for every genre and play-style. And you can't hack that without some weird attempt at rhetorical aki-jitsu turnabout, either. What exactly is your problem?