What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

Speaking As A Moderator: Please cool it down, folks. Thanks.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

Okay, ladies that I particularly think rank very highly on the hot-o-meter include...

 

Drew Barrymore (work safe)

Christina Ricci (no nudity, but sultry vibe; probably NSFW in most workplaces)

Kari Byron (work safe)

Diane Lane (no nudity, but a little saucy; may be NSFW in some workplaces)

Stacey Dash (work safe)

Scarlett Johansson (work safe)

Kate Winslet (work safe)

Sara Rue (work safe)

 

We like the same type of women. Kate Winslet was my all time favorite woman until she lost a bunch of weight recently. I once saw an old BBC sci- fi series she was in when she was like 15, and you could tell that she was going to be a stunning woman even then. I regret that she fell prey to the Hollywood obsession with stick figures. However, Kate Winslet circa Titanic...perfection.

 

Drew Barrymore isn't a 20 for me, but she's my perfect 14. She looks like an average girl, but she has that certain something.

 

Sarah Rue is another example of a woman who was perfect the way she was. To me, she lost a bunch of weight and ruined her looks.

 

My current 20 is probably Alicia Keys. I think most guys wouldn't go that far, but she is special.

 

http://www.hitzonly.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/alicia-keys.jpg

[Sean Waters]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

My wife.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

My wife.

 

Aww, isn't he sweet?

 

Does she read the boards Sean? Otherwise you get no brownie points!!

 

 

Doc

[megaplayboy]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

One way to think about the "20 vs. 30" dichotomy is this. Think of the difference between Bruce Lee the real world martial artist, and "Mr. Lee" the character he plays onscreen. Now think of an actor or actress who is very attractive in real life, give them a killer wardrobe tailored to accentuate their best physical features, a top end hair and makeup job, and favorable lighting and camera angles...they have now progressed from the 16-20 COM range to the "legendary beauty" range.

In a semi-realistic game, the character is "pre-makeover", and in cinematic realism games, the character is "post-makeover". It's basically as if that person looks that good without the wardrobe, hair and makeup, lighting and camera angles.

 

 

A 30 COM is someone who looks that good just getting out of bed after a 3 day bender without showering.

[megaplayboy]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

Some offhand examples of women I find extremely attractive (excluding my beautiful wife:love:):

Paula Patton, actress(Idlewild, Deja Vu), married to singer Robin Thicke

Jennifer Beals, actress(Flashdance, Devil in a Blue Dress, the L Word)

Gong Li, actress

Amy Yip, actress

Monica Bellucci, actress

Rosario Dawson, actress

Jessica Simpson, singer (of the "plastic looking" blondes out there, I think she looks the best)

Scarlet Johansson, actress

Hayden Panettiere, actress (but waaaaay too young for me now)

Gisele Bundchen, supermodel

Angelina Jolie, actress

Sarah Silverman, comedian

Aisha Tyler, comedian

 

that's a baker's dozen. I'll try to update with links to pics at some point.

[teh bunneh]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

No love for Ziyi Zhang?

 

 

(Not nude, but possibly NSFW)

[megaplayboy]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

No love for Ziyi Zhang?

 

 

(Not nude, but possibly NSFW)

 

She's flawless from the neck up, and "merely" very attractive from the neck down, imo.

[Susano]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

Petra Verkaik

Sophia Lorean

[Cancer]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

I note that so far, people have only nominated individuals who are MOTAS for them (all female so far). Could we get nominees for high COM for MOTIS? That's the scale where I think the most assistance is needed.

[Susano]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

Motas? Motis?

[megaplayboy]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

For the record, my wife would knock over Brad Pitt and Johnny Depp to get to Clive Owen.

[Cancer]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

Member Of The Appropriate (Inappropriate) Sex. So far it's been all straight males nominating females to drool over.

[Susano]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

Member Of The Appropriate (Inappropriate) Sex. So far it's been all straight males nominating females to drool over.

 

20 COM males --

 

Brad Pitt

Johnny Depp

Clive Owen

Cary Grant

[Debra Winger]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

bark

 

bark bark

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

Because that is the realm of the supernatural. Like angels' date=' goddesses and Angelina Jolie (in between Hackers and Tomb Raider)[/quote']

 

 

20 is the point at which humans in NCM games being paying double for their stats... but supernatural?

 

It's not the absolute human maximum, by any means.

[Checkmate]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

 

20 is the point at which humans in NCM games being paying double for their stats... but supernatural?

 

It's not the absolute human maximum, by any means.

Yikes here we go again.

 

My 5 would go something like this in no particular order:

 

Megan Fox (Transformers)

Jessica Alba (Fantastic Four, Dark Angel)

Denise Richards (Wild Things, Starship Troopers)

Catherine Zeta Jones

Scarlett Johansen

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

The point is, that while real life is variable, the author/director/casting director assigns the "look" to whoever the plot calls for. If the script calls for a babe to be hot, then she's hot, without regard for your silly sliding scales and variable tastes. It's a matter of definition.

 

Examples of COM 20+ Beauties (if by definition only):

 

Bugs Bunny in Drag

 

Clara Bow

 

Jean Harlowe

 

Rita Haworth

 

Marilyn monroe

 

As a private citizen you don't have to find any of these "women" attractive. The Animated Bugs Bunny was attractive by Definition. That's why Elmer would go nuts and all "aw-shucks" whenever Bugs appeared in drag. Likewise, Clara Bow, Jean Harlowe, Rita Hayworth and Marilyn Monroe might not have been right-outta-bed-without-makeup gorgeous, but in the movies they appeared in, it was understood that they were the most beautiful women in that movie and all were highly acclaimed by the masses, even if many individuals preferred a different cup of tea. Other women could be cute or perky or more sophisticated, but the audience knew who the star was.

 

It's the same way in the Hero System. If you want your character to be homely, sell back some COM. Likewise, if you want them average-looking, don't touch the base amount. Likewise if you want your character to stand out from the crowd, then by all means buy some COM for your character. It is hampered only by the perception that COM must have exactly thus-and-so special effects. Com is a game mechanic, assigning an abstract and somewhat arbitrary value to represent good looks and attractiveness without defining the special effects.

 

Therefore, if your character thinks Blonde Bombshells are boring, then that's Special Effects and doesn't need a game mechanic. Just let the GM know before he introduces the Blonde Bombshell who's supposed to be this session's red herring.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

Dana what's her name from Heroes -- it's the body, but her face is beautiful also. I got for the oval faced types, and for exotics. In that line.

 

Monica Belucci.

 

I'm not into: Gwyneth Paltrow; I like skinny chicks, but there's something... missing. It's all very subjective I know. I also don't go for Cate Blanchett, but I like Emma Thompson. The mother from Terminator (the new series) does wonders for me, but the lead from Fringe does nothing for me. And I'm at work, so no pictures, but finding those people should be easy enough.

 

I would marry without a moment's hesitation: Summer Glau.

 

... and she's it.

[mikesama]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

Two ladies that I think would deserve that COM 20

 

Morena Baccarin

 

Ashiwarya Rai

[lapsedgamer]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

 

20 is the point at which humans in NCM games being paying double for their stats... but supernatural?

 

It's not the absolute human maximum, by any means.

 

I don't hold with the current 30 top limit for humans philosophy. I am more partial to 25 for most stats. Think about it 20 used to be the pinnacle in most genres for the system. Supers was an exception due to the nature of the characters you are dealing with. You can't really do a good Batman with all 20s and a 4 SPD. It just didn't match the published material. However, in most situations in the previous editions 20 made a good human max.

 

5th Edition came along and made supers more super with the 350 point build. 30 is the new 20 by default. To me, it works in supers only because all of the published stuff is now done that way. However, there is no reason why that has to hold true for any other genre.

 

The STR tables seem to make 25 a gold medalist Olympian weightlifter. If INT is meant to be IQ/10 then Einstein would have about a 19 based on most guesses at his faculties. Based on that, I could go with Reed Richards having a 25.

 

There is no 30 COM outside of certain fiction genres: fantasy, sci-fi and the like. I would not mark any living woman as a 30 COM, and 20 is really just a matter of taste. In this world, there are more 8 ratings than 12s, and that's why the 16-18s stand out.

[Sean Waters]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

Given that we are working on a completely arbitrary scale that is not, in any event, measuring something that people can consistently agree on, I have no idea what '20' or '30' signifies. If 30 is 20+ a great photographer, fine, but it is still pretty meaningless in that it remains arbitrary and variable.

 

I can tell you who I find attractive, and I can put them in some sort of order and ask me in a month and I'll give a similar (but not identical) list in a similar (but not identical) order.

 

Also who I find attractive, up toward the top end of the scale is tied up with my own emotional responses. Someone I don't know and someone I do iI'm going to see differently as perception is not simply a matter of visual signal.

 

In fact it is interesting but entirely predictable that everyone has gone purely for visual appearance - presumably COM can encompass other aspects.

 

I just don't know.

 

And, no - my wife doesn't read these boards, Doc

[Doc Democracy]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

Sean, I think you should encourage her to, it might give her valuable insights into your psyche.

 

My wife and I have an agreement. If I ever had the chance to nail Halle Berry then that will be fine. (I know that it is on the extreme side of unlikely but its nice to know that if it comes up then I have her permission). On the flip side if she gets the chance to jump Clive Owen she similarly has permission.

 

I guess when we picked our free shot we were looking at a mix of loveliness, fame and "well it would be a shame not to......", it's kind of a free shot.

 

 

Doc

[SteveZilla]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

In fact it is interesting but entirely predictable that everyone has gone purely for visual appearance - presumably COM can encompass other aspects.

 

I think COM is primarily sight as that is the sense that gives the most information, but includes their voice -- potentially all 4/5 human senses.

 

For instance -- Fran Drescher is not bad visually (but not a 20 -- that list will come later), but is not so good on the ears.

 

Sean's point (to me, at least) is whether someone thinks of COM as static or dynamic. But even if it were a "dynamic" stat (i.e., only truly/fully perceived when "in use"), a photograph would still give a rough idea of that stat. And IMO it's possible to see a person move & hear them talk without invoving their PRE.

[Markdoc]

Re: What does a "20 Comeliness" look like to YOU?

 

Given that we are working on a completely arbitrary scale that is not' date=' in any event, measuring something that people can consistently agree on, I have no idea what '20' or '30' signifies. If 30 is 20+ a great photographer, fine, but it is still pretty meaningless in that it remains arbitrary and variable.[/quote']

 

Sure, but that's true of any stat. Even so called "objective stat.s" like STR. Who's stronger - the man who can snatch 152 kilos, the man who can only snatch 145, but can clean and jerk 15 kilos more than the first man? Both of them have (presumably) around 14-18 STR. But we can't be more precise in real life.

 

In fact it is interesting but entirely predictable that everyone has gone purely for visual appearance - presumably COM can encompass other aspects.

 

I just don't know.

 

For me at least, such a response is entirely intentional - that's how I see COM: as a measure of physical attractiveness. Not as a measure of interest/sociability. That's PRE, from my standpoint. It's entirely possible to have a person with high COM/Low PRE (physically attractive, but a grating voice, an annoying attitude, or simply aloof and standoffish - whatever) or the opposite: interesting, engaging and attractive - but physically not appealing (low COM/high PRE).

 

Essentially, I see PRE/COM as being largely the non-physical/physical components of social interaction, with the caveat that PRE also has a physical aspect (of the two stat.s, PRE is the more poorly defined)

 

One thing about this debate: it's made me rethink not just COM, but PRE (and, indeed, other skills). As the basis of social skills like oratory, persuasion, seduction and conversation, PRE clearly includes aspects like voice tone, and ability to project an encouraging appearance. However, as the basis for Intimidation, PRE attacks - and the ability to resist PRE attacks, and so on, it also seems to include a fearsome mien. Those two things don't go together very well.

 

I'm loathe to shift things like conversation or oratory to being based on COM: the verbal component seems to me to be more important, with physical attractiveness being an advantage in some situations.

 

However, - and this thought applies to skills generally, now - what about moving the basis of skills (and possibly other things) to incorporate more than one stat?

 

For example, base rolls for seduction or persuasion could be 5+ ((COM+PRE)/4) instead of 9+(PRE/5)? The base roll (for stat.s of 10) would be slighly lower, the progression would be almost the same (though it would be slower at the top end - not necessarily a bad thing).

 

For further examples, Climbing could be 5+((STR+DEX)/4) while lockpicking could be 5+((INT+DEX)/4). Some skills (juggling, for example) could be purely based on a single stat + baseline (10): 5+(10+DEX/4).

 

The advantage of this is that it can be applied to other skills and it increases granularity without adding new stat. You can then differentiate to a greater extent between different types of DEX based activity, and different types of intellectual or social activity. You also introduce slightly more breakpoints, adding a little more granularity.

 

The downside is that characters who rely entirely on one stat. would find some skills would be slower to progress and that it's marginally more complicated: but the complication is only at the Chargen level - it would not change the current sheet layout or gameplay any. I think those limitations are worth the advantages of this approach.

 

If we took this approach, my suggested skill structure would look like this:

 

Fam. Costs 1 point gives base 8- roll

Base skill. Costs 2 points gives 10- roll

Full skill. Costs 3 points, gives CHA based roll

+1 to any skill costs 2 points

+1 to any tight group of skills costs 3 points

+1 to a broad group of skills costs 5 points

+1 to any skill costs 8 points

+1 overall level costs 10 points.

 

Yes, I know I've gotten off topic here so I'm crossposting this to skills issues.

 

cheers, Mark