matrix3 Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Re: Hollow Earth --Not! Eons ago, an alien vessel crashed to Earth. Unimportant pieces of the fuselage were scattered across the globe, the source for strange materials in the modern world. However, the most interesting pieces were those from the strange craft's propulsion system, which possessed strange, hyperdimensional properties. Wherever they landed, they folded a volume of space. Those that landed in the oceans overloaded from the sheer mass of the water in the volume of space they were trying to fold, releasing cubic miles of water with great force, washing the land with great tsunamis. The other pieces landed on a large island near Bermuda, in deepest Africa, and in the Himalayas (and anywhere else you want). These piece not only swallowed vast tracts of land, but were linked in strange ways. Trekking in the African jungle, you could suddenly find yourself stumbling upon a Tibetan monastery. Get shot down near Bermuda, and you could wash up on the shore of an African river in the deepest jungle. Due to the hyperdimensional geometries, you couldn't just reverse your course to find your way home, instead you would have to push through to get out. Perhaps these objects warped not just space, but time, meaning you could confront dinosaurs and other prehistoric creatures on your way to that monastery, or on the shore of that river. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Re: Hollow Earth --Not! Or we could just make the size of Earth bigger. Though, you'd have to rewrite some history like the time it took Columbus to get to the New World, etc. Ok, I am mostly joking here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Re: Hollow Earth --Not! You could make all 12 of the Vile Vortices real. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vile_Vortices 12?! I just knew of the 2. Hmm, though I think I have to file this away. I think I can probably use eventually use this for an idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Mackinder Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Re: Hollow Earth --Not! The various "gate" ideas all seem to drive specific kinds of campaigns. I would personally love to see a Pulp Hero/Danger International campaign in Bulmer's "Dimensions" multiverse' date=' but I'm still not seeing the answer that will allow me to have Nazi zeppelins competing with British jungle lords and American superscience for influence in a Lost World full of uncharted mountain ranges, rampaging dinosaurs, ancient empires and enigmatic ruins.[/quote'] Brings to mind an enjoyable novel I read many years ago - 'The Secret Sea' by (I think) Thomas Monteleone. Always wanted to get my own copy. The central premise is that a number of (apparently) natural dimensional gates connect various parallel Earths (and, quite possibly, other worlds as well). These gates fluctuate cyclically in both location and where they connect to - it is possible to reliably predict and make use of them, if you have them charted adequately. It is also worth noting that time can pass differently in some of these alternate worlds. What might seem like a day or so in one place may be substantially different elsewhere. The two central Characters (from "our" Earth, or close enough) wind up joining Captain Nemo (actually a reasonably sane and nice enough English gentleman-inventor whose "real" name is Percy Makepeace Goodenough). Given the sort of things they encounter, the Nazi zeppelins, English jungle lords, etc. would fit in quite nicely, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Re: Hollow Earth --Not! So...what would happen when one of these lands in the ocean? It seems that the water in the ocean would just rush into the crater' date=' never reaching the meteor, never filling up the space...[/quote'] Humm, I was thinking of the Bermuda Triangle as an ocean one, planes or boats unlucky enought to cross the "event horizon" run out of fuel before finding their way out, but there might be some islands within (not at the center). Good point about the water never filling the space. Maybe the effect periodically inverts' date=' spewing the water (and anything else) back out, leaving a local "Charybdis" effect?[/quote'] That works! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Re: Hollow Earth --Not! One idea about the wandering into 'Shadow' concept -- the Lost World shapes itself to the visitor's perceptions, so if someone mentions dinosaurs, guess what shows up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Re: Hollow Earth --Not! I like McCoy's suggestion. I don't know whether it works here specifically, but I'm sure it can be worked in somewhere. The various "gate" ideas all seem to drive specific kinds of campaigns. I would personally love to see a Pulp Hero/Danger International campaign in Bulmer's "Dimensions" multiverse, but I'm still not seeing the answer that will allow me to have Nazi zeppelins competing with British jungle lords and American superscience for influence in a Lost World full of uncharted mountain ranges, rampaging dinosaurs, ancient empires and enigmatic ruins. And I hope I'll be pardoned for being so darned picky! I think a Zeno Valley would work. The dwarf star metorite fell near what is currently the source of the Nile, dinos wandered in, lived and reproduced insulated by the event horizon from the influences that later killed their cousins. Much later, likewise Neanderthals. Then wave after wave of human settlers, some dying out, leaving enigmatic ruins, others thriving, some thriving, as the intact Pharonic Egyptian Empire. In the first decade of the 20th century an airplane blundered into the valley and crashed, killing a young British Lord and his wife, but their infant son survived and was cared for by a tribe of Neanderthals. First reports of this lost valley to reach the outside world came from a Nazi expedition to the headwaters of the Nile. None of the reports made sense until some scientist tried to reenturpet them using the "Jewish Physics" of relativity, then they instantly saw the military application of whatever was warping space in that area. "We can set traps for invading armies. We can transport an entire armored division accross the sea in a single U-Boat." Major expedetion, supported by zeppelins, dispatched to find what causes the space warp. Through intercepted ENIGMA coded messages the Americans find out about this. Cannot match the Nazi expedition man-for-man, but send an American superscientist and his five followers (all veterains of The Great War) to find out what they can and twart the Nazis. By the way, zeppelins have a real advantage in a Zeno Valley. They can gain altitude, go a few hundred feet, and come back down hundreds if not thousands of miles away. Effectively gaining altitude adds megascale to their movement. "How? How did they get here ahead of us?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matrix3 Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Re: Hollow Earth --Not! By the way, zeppelins have a real advantage in a Zeno Valley. They can gain altitude, go a few hundred feet, and come back down hundreds if not thousands of miles away. Effectively gaining altitude adds megascale to their movement. "How? How did they get here ahead of us?" Hmm...I like that idea. "We only ascended a couple hundred feet, right? How are we now falling for miles?" I would say that tromping along the ground is slow, but relatively smooth, as you approach the center, while hopping along with the zeppelin would be much quicker, but more turbulent as you slice through vortexes of air trying to apply conventional thermodynamics to hyperspatial geometry... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Re: Hollow Earth --Not! I like McCoy's suggestion. I don't know whether it works here specifically, but I'm sure it can be worked in somewhere. The various "gate" ideas all seem to drive specific kinds of campaigns. I would personally love to see a Pulp Hero/Danger International campaign in Bulmer's "Dimensions" multiverse, but I'm still not seeing the answer that will allow me to have Nazi zeppelins competing with British jungle lords and American superscience for influence in a Lost World full of uncharted mountain ranges, rampaging dinosaurs, ancient empires and enigmatic ruins. And I hope I'll be pardoned for being so darned picky! Hmm... for that I think Antarctica would be your best bet. Marvel Comics used that for its "Savage World/Pangea" concept -- extinct creatures in a tropical region of the continent, maintained by unusual volcanic activity and/or surviving alien technology. No one in the pulp era could know it was there without physically traveling to it. If it was destroyed in a geologic upheaval or failure of the devices maintaining it, you wouldn't even need to change the modern world. The influx of ice would completely cover the evidence in a few decades at most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matrix3 Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Re: Hollow Earth --Not! Hmm... for that I think Antarctica would be your best bet. Marvel Comics used that for its "Savage World/Pangea" concept -- extinct creatures in a tropical region of the continent' date=' maintained by unusual volcanic activity and/or surviving alien technology. No one in the pulp era could know it was there without physically traveling to it. If it was destroyed in a geologic upheaval or failure of the devices maintaining it, you wouldn't even need to change the modern world. The influx of ice would completely cover the evidence in a few decades at most.[/quote'] Antarctic ice has a max depth of 3 miles. Ice cores going back thousands of years can be extracted. Modern scientists would probably know from eye balling it that something was wrong with the area, even with 80 years of ice over everything. It would have to exist in a caldera, and completely collapse in on itself to make things look natural, and that severely limits how much you can put in there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prometheus Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Re: Hollow Earth --Not! Modern scientists would probably know from eye balling it that something was wrong with the area' date=' even with 80 years of ice over everything.[/quote'] Measuring the viablity of a pulp scenario by the standards of modern knowledge is a mug's game. We don't have lightning guns or earthquake machines, but that shouldn't stop you from using them. This is a Lost World(!), potentially the size of Australia(!!), populated by all manner of strange creatures and topped with a heaping serving of Weird Science(!!!). If it allows for lost roman legions, nazi ufos, and jurassic predators, well then ice cores be damned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Re: Hollow Earth --Not! No criticism intended, Prometheus, but I think matrix3 was just responding to my observation that the modern world wouldn't necessarily know right away that the remains of that lost world was under the Antarctic ice. And a good point it was, too. Of course you're right, if you're not worried about continuity with contemporary scientific observations, you have plenty of room to go hog-wild down there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matrix3 Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Re: Hollow Earth --Not! Measuring the viablity of a pulp scenario by the standards of modern knowledge is a mug's game. We don't have lightning guns or earthquake machines, but that shouldn't stop you from using them. This is a Lost World(!), potentially the size of Australia(!!), populated by all manner of strange creatures and topped with a heaping serving of Weird Science(!!!). If it allows for lost roman legions, nazi ufos, and jurassic predators, well then ice cores be damned. You're absolutely right, but I was addressing LL's "...you wouldn't even need to change the modern world." By all means, pulp needs "Science!" and "Great Adventure!", but if you want to do that without changing the "modern world" I don't think a giant area in Antarctica is the way to do it. Now, you could say that it's all a big coverup, but you'd have to say something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matrix3 Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Re: Hollow Earth --Not! Long ages ago, back before the poles switched, back before the cataclysmic asteroid impact that shifted the skin of the Earth over the slippery, molten mantle, Antarctica was equatorial, populated with great jungles and fearsome creatures. A great race of saurians pulled themselves up the slippery slope of evolution, and began to marvel at the stars above. They were a unified race, bound together in ways our fractious mammalian minds cannot comprehend, and their science advanced at an astonishing pace. Soon the air and space were filled with ships both great and graceful. However, it was inconceivable for them to breach the atmosphere. This would be to leave their cradle, and was alien to their unified psychology. Oh, they touched other planets, and even reached to nearby stars, but all such exploration was by remote or autonomous drone. Alas, this was to be their downfall. They detected the object quite early, on an intercept course with Earth, and planned for powerful remote ships to intercept and redirect it. The mission progressed, the ships approached -- then died. They tried again, with the same results. None of their remote or autonomous technology would work in proximity to the object, and they had no weaponry powerful enough to destroy it, for they'd had no wars to spur such development. But, they had other advanced sciences. These strange mammals were quite intelligent, perhaps with a little tinkering one would be able to finish a mission after the remote technology died! As a backup plan, a great preserve was created, with a selection of creatures and the best of their own species, all protected by the most powerful force screens ever built. The impact would destroy the atmosphere for millennia, so the environment within the bubble was scrubbed and managed by the most advanced and stable autonomous agents ever designed. And, if in all the concern over the end of the world, a few mammal test subjects went missing, who cared? They were trying to save the world. But it was too late. The mission failed. The impact was catastrophic. Not only was the sun obscured for ages, but the very skin of the planet shifted. The saurians had underestimated their own reliance on the environment. Their bodies couldn't be fooled long term, they needed the natural sun and humidity, and they slowly died out. A last ditch effort incorporated some mammalian DNA, but that merely resulted in the first war in the species' memory. In the confusion, the mammals they had enhanced escaped and started to breed. The Saurians regressed, competing with each other, until they were barely more intelligent than the escaped mammals they had enhanced. Their technology, however, continued to do its job, maintaining the tropical atmosphere, the screens keeping the snow and ice outside. Slowly, it built up, forming a great dome of ice over a mile thick. There are long abandoned passageways, escape hatches, and other entrances for this Eden. Long abandoned, but still maintained by the machines. And, occasionally, found by the intrepid explorers just starting to find their way across the vast ice sheets to the south pole. Addendum: What if the Saurians had teleportation in their portfolio of incredible technology? There could be other Edens out there, perhaps one drowned in the Bermuda Triangle, or upthrust by the impact and now residing in the Himalayas. Perhaps there are stasis chambers out there holding representatives of the Saurians from the height of their technology, all tied together by a forgotten network of teleportation pods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawnmower Boy Posted January 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Re: Hollow Earth --Not! I think a Zeno Valley would work. The dwarf star metorite fell near what is currently the source of the Nile, dinos wandered in, lived and reproduced insulated by the event horizon from the influences that later killed their cousins. Much later, likewise Neanderthals. Then wave after wave of human settlers, some dying out, leaving enigmatic ruins, others thriving, some thriving, as the intact Pharonic Egyptian Empire. In the first decade of the 20th century an airplane blundered into the valley and crashed, killing a young British Lord and his wife, but their infant son survived and was cared for by a tribe of Neanderthals. First reports of this lost valley to reach the outside world came from a Nazi expedition to the headwaters of the Nile. None of the reports made sense until some scientist tried to reenturpet them using the "Jewish Physics" of relativity, then they instantly saw the military application of whatever was warping space in that area. "We can set traps for invading armies. We can transport an entire armored division accross the sea in a single U-Boat." Major expedetion, supported by zeppelins, dispatched to find what causes the space warp. Through intercepted ENIGMA coded messages the Americans find out about this. Cannot match the Nazi expedition man-for-man, but send an American superscientist and his five followers (all veterains of The Great War) to find out what they can and twart the Nazis. By the way, zeppelins have a real advantage in a Zeno Valley. They can gain altitude, go a few hundred feet, and come back down hundreds if not thousands of miles away. Effectively gaining altitude adds megascale to their movement. "How? How did they get here ahead of us?" That's beautiful, man. Tops the planetary romance/dimensions scenarios quite nicely. (Unless you want to do planetary romance/dimensions scenarios!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Re: Hollow Earth --Not! /thread necromancy on! I'm working on some characters for an antediluvian lost worlds type world. This thread caught my interest since it will have a "jungle environ." I thought I would comment: modern day lost worlds could work so long as they are remote and you are willing to have some deus ex machina in play. The premise is a stretch to start with so embrace it! Perhaps the ancients left some infernal device that cloaks it from view so astronauts miss it. Or, perhaps, like the savage land, its under the antarctic ice. And there are some remote caves in South America you can land a helicopter in. You could have one that hasn't been mapped. If its remote enough perhaps there is a city inside. Another option is to have some sort of astral projection ala a Princess of Mars. But, instead of alien world astral projection it could be temporal - flinging people far into the future or past where the world has reverted to (or remains in) its verdant, primordial state. One might find oneself in the city of Enosh in the land of Nod in the time of Caine, or in a post apocalyptic world with skyscraper ruins and post plague mutants. A time tunnel might be the best way to facilitate a lot of disparate elements, however. /thread necromancy off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Carman Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Re: Hollow Earth --Not! Since the thread has already been raised as a shambling zombie by someone else, I guess I'll take advantage of it. Instead of the Zeno Valleys being asymptotic with the center always the same distance away regardless of the distance you cover (infinite expansion), here is a way to limit the range while still keeping people out of the dwarf star material. The world gets "bigger" the farther in you travel (whether you are shrinking or space is expanding), but you are also getting closer to the dwarf star's gravity. Even if the ground beneath your feet is still perpendicular to a line through Earth's core, the gravity source ahead of you makes it feel like a slope. The closer you get, the steeper the slope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Re: Hollow Earth --Not! Those who discover "Lost Worlds" are often descended from Corwin of Amber, a member of a race of dimension travellers who spent many centuries on Earth. His descendents included Alice Little, Lemuel Gulliver, John Carter of Virginia (and many more in the extended Carter clan), and many others. Corwin and other true "Amberites" had the power (with training) to travel from dimension to dimension at will, escorting as many as he chose. His mixed blood, untrained descendants are more limited; they generally only find their way into one alternate world, or a small number of connected worlds. They rarely realize just how and why they made the transition. Because they are often exceptionally competent individuals (being part Amberite), they tend to rise to positions of leadership in adventurous professions. Like their full Amberite ancestor, they are able to lead others to the worlds they discover. This also explains why planets such as Venus and Mars appeared to some early explorers to sport thriving eco-systems and civilizations, while later explorers (lacking a group member with the Blood of Amber) found nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matrix3 Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Re: Hollow Earth --Not! Those who discover "Lost Worlds" are often descended from Corwin of Amber' date=' a member of a race of dimension travellers who spent many centuries on Earth. His descendents included Alice Little, Lemuel Gulliver, John Carter of Virginia (and many more in the extended Carter clan), and many others. Corwin and other true "Amberites" had the power (with training) to travel from dimension to dimension at will, escorting as many as he chose. His mixed blood, untrained descendants are more limited; they generally only find their way into one alternate world, or a small number of connected worlds. They rarely realize just how and why they made the transition. Because they are often exceptionally competent individuals (being part Amberite), they tend to rise to positions of leadership in adventurous professions. Like their full Amberite ancestor, they are able to lead others to the worlds they discover. This also explains why planets such as Venus and Mars appeared to some early explorers to sport thriving eco-systems and civilizations, while later explorers (lacking a group member with the Blood of Amber) found nothing.[/quote'] Hmm. What about Peter Pan? Would he be of Amberite lineage, lost to an alternate world for some years, who then comes back with some natives from this alternate world and takes some normal kids with him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Re: Hollow Earth --Not! Hmm. What about Peter Pan? Would he be of Amberite lineage' date=' lost to an alternate world for some years, who then comes back with some natives from this alternate world and takes some normal kids with him?[/quote'] Yup. Works very well, doesn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matrix3 Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Re: Hollow Earth --Not! Yup. Works very well' date=' doesn't it? [/quote'] Pretty clever. I wonder how well would this work with Wold-Newton? Hmm...I would definitely play in a game with this as background, but my initial impression is I'd prefer McCoy's "dwarf star" idea, since it would allow Nazis and dirigibles and lost tribes and even ancient technology... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Re: Hollow Earth --Not! Pretty clever. I wonder how well would this work with Wold-Newton? Hmm...I would definitely play in a game with this as background, but my initial impression is I'd prefer McCoy's "dwarf star" idea, since it would allow Nazis and dirigibles and lost tribes and even ancient technology... It's part of my Wold Newton Superhero Universe setting. Lost tribes etc are covered by having an Amber-touched explorer discover them, thus establishing a path that can be followed back and forth until it fades (i.e. as long as it fits the campaign). Also note that some of the German Pulp and Victorian heroes (Jan Mayan, Sun Koh, Captain Mors) were pretty clearly dimension travellers, leaving plenty of chances for Nazis hiding in a lost world, ready to return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DusterBoy Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 Re: Hollow Earth --Not! Personally, I like the idea of an alternate dimension hollow earth, since it offers an easy out when real-life physics comes knocking with the info that the net gravity inside a sphere is zero. Hey, it's a Pulp adventure. But McCoy's scenario is genius - any you could always fuse the two concepts into an epic kitchen sink scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 Re: Hollow Earth --Not! I think you're all working from an initial--incorrect--premise unless I misunderstand the question. Australia is slightly smaller than the United States...whereas Africa is larger than China, the USA, Western Europe, India, Argentina and the British Isles COMBINED. If, as I first thought, you were saying Australia is bigger than Africa, that's not true--Africa dwarfs Australia. If, instead, you're saying that Africa would have to have as much additional landmass as Australia to contain all those lost worlds...well, just wave your hand and declare that it is. The difference would be negligible considering how large Africa is already. A visual aid: A map of Africa with proper perspective You must spread rep around, yada yada yada... Depending on what exact time period you are using for your pulp history, there could be other options. Perhaps the Tunguska blast was actually the collapse of the gateway to what some thought was the "interior of the hollow earth" I like McCoys idea about freak meteor craters, but I would tend to make them create extradimensional rifts, rather than shrink everything. Perhaps the Tunguska blast destabilized the rifts and they all closed... Their re-opening could be part of a modern camaign or something set in the inter-war years. Crimson Skies over Pelucidor!!! That reminds me though, has anyone seen any maps that purport to show ley lines? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted August 13, 2009 Report Share Posted August 13, 2009 Re: Hollow Earth --Not! This is an amazingly cool thread. Just sayin'.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.